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Home: Inactive Forums: Casablanca Users:
Cassie is too expensive!!

 

 


X-Jerry_Powell
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Jun 8, 1998, 5:38 PM

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Cassie is too expensive!! Can't Post

Am I the only one that thinks that the Cassie is way overpriced for what it can and can't do? Opinions appreciated.
Jerry


X-Logan_Enright
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Jun 8, 1998, 11:40 PM

Post #2 of 13 (2274 views)
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Re: Cassie is too expensive!! Can't Post

: Am I the only one that thinks that the Cassie is way overpriced for what it can and can't do? Opinions appreciated.
: Jerry

What's the better deal? I think that it makes great video, is easy to operate and has fantastic effects. Again, where is the better deal?


X-Jeff_Mahon
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Jun 8, 1998, 11:42 PM

Post #3 of 13 (2274 views)
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Re: Cassie is too expensive!! [In reply to] Can't Post

: Am I the only one that thinks that the Cassie is way overpriced for what it can and can't do? Opinions appreciated.
: Jerry

I'm beginning to agree Jerry.
I have been very interested in the Cassie for quite awhile but that price! I used to think the price was worth it for not having to deal with PC headaches, but I still think it has a very limited editing program. I am not ruling out the Cassie, but for that price, I'd rather get a G3 Mac and the Media 100/Premiere.
My .02
Jeff


X-Darrell_Conner
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Jun 9, 1998, 9:52 AM

Post #4 of 13 (2274 views)
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Re: Cassie is too expensive!! I don't think so!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

: Am I the only one that thinks that the Cassie is way overpriced for what it can and can't do? Opinions appreciated.
: Jerry
I used to agree with this thought, until I actually laid down the hard earned cash, and bought a cassie... Best purchase I ever made. In a little under three months, I have already made back the original investment, and that was on a part-time work basis. The system is extremely easy to use, and compared to Premiere and some of the other PC or Mac based systems it's a breeze. Plus, I have yet to have a system crash while editing with my Cassie; however, I have used other systems, Avid's Media Composer 1000 included, where the systems have crashed on average 2 - 3 times a day! You tell me which is the better system: one where you can get the work done, or one where you are constantly re-booting and not editing. Plus, in case you haven't noticed, the price of the Cassie vs. some of the other systems (once you add all the bells and whistles to them) are not even in the same ball park! Cassie is not that expensive!
Darrell Conner
DarCon Productions


X-Jerry_Powell
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Jun 9, 1998, 10:33 AM

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Re: Cassie is too expensive!! [In reply to] Can't Post

 
: Am I the only one that thinks that the Cassie is way overpriced for what it can and can't do? Opinions appreciated.
: Jerry
Ok...Ok...I spend hours on end at NAB looking at Cassie and other NLE. I must have spent at least two hours alone at cassies. The machine did produce some beautiful video BUT even the sales rep there said don't even think of buying the lower end unit..instead but an 060 with as much hard drive as possible...or better yet buy the new "Broadcast" unit (tho he couldn't tell me precisely why it's a better buy). All in all be prepared to spend upwards of $8000 to $11,000. Now I know you can get in at entry level at around $5 or $6,000, but who wants an 040 with limited hard drive space?
Problems I noticed at the booth: Rendering. It takes HOURS. Who has time to spend at least half the time rendering! I know.....do it overnight or over a LONGGGGGG lunch. My word on this is that any NLE at Cassies price should be real time or darn near real time NLE.
Second.....The CG is really amaturesh...cheesy as I heard one person next to me describe it. At NAB I saw dozens of CG programs...ALL of which looked far better than the Monument CG program that Cassie was running.
Just as an afterthough...I saw Newteks booth nearby with their FLYER (and I am, by no means, a Newtek supporter)...but they had Real Time NLE with a rather good (not great) CG program....paint program and CG program ...& lot of other perks...all at $6000. Go figure?
In my opinion, The cassie should be priced corerectly in the market for what is is and does...that price being $2000 to $4000 MAX.
Jerry


X-Darrell_Conner
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Jun 9, 1998, 1:58 PM

Post #6 of 13 (2274 views)
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Re: Cassie is too expensive!! I don't think so!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

: : Am I the only one that thinks that the Cassie is way overpriced for what it can and can't do? Opinions appreciated.
: : Jerry
: I used to agree with this thought, until I actually laid down the hard earned cash, and bought a cassie... Best purchase I ever made. In a little under three months, I have already made back the original investment, and that was on a part-time work basis. The system is extremely easy to use, and compared to Premiere and some of the other PC or Mac based systems it's a breeze. Plus, I have yet to have a system crash while editing with my Cassie; however, I have used other systems, Avid's Media Composer 1000 included, where the systems have crashed on average 2 - 3 times a day! You tell me which is the better system: one where you can get the work done, or one where you are constantly re-booting and not editing. Plus, in case you haven't noticed, the price of the Cassie vs. some of the other systems (once you add all the bells and whistles to them) are not even in the same ball park! Cassie is not that expensive!
: Darrell Conner
: DarCon Productions
Just wanted to add a few comments as an afterthought to the above posting that I made.
(1)For the record, my Cassie is an 060 model with a 9gb drive. Total investment in the system was less than $6000 and that is including the addition of a second 9gb hard-drive that was purchased from a source other than Draco.
(2)Sure you have render times that can be quite long, but what system doesn't have render times??? The last time I crawled behind the controls of an Avid MC 1000 I had render times to contend with as well. Unless you spend in excess of $20,000 you will have render times. And even then, you will have render times for many of the more complex 3D effects that are not real-time. If you plan to edit non-linear, render times are something that you are going to face, no matter what...
(3) If this is supposed to be a "Cassie User Forum," why are there so many people here who want to bad mouth the product? Are you guys just disgruntled users, or what? Perhaps sales people for other inferior products? What gives?
I firmly believe that I made the right choice in my purchase of a cassie, and everytime that I use my system I am even more convinced of this.
Darrell L. Conner
DarCon Productions


X-Jerry_Powell
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Jun 9, 1998, 7:15 PM

Post #7 of 13 (2274 views)
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Re: Cassie is too expensive!! I don't think so!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

 

You have spent you hard earned dollars on the Cassie so you feel compelled to defend..I understand. I am not a dealer or proponent of any other systen....And believe it or not I still may buy a cassie....but IT is overpriced....
If you can get much cheaper hard drives elsewhere like you said why doesn't DRACO just do the same D*** thing???? Your need to buy a key component elsewhere for the Cassie just makes my point...IT'S TO EXPENSIVE.





: : : Am I the only one that thinks that the Cassie is way overpriced for what it can and can't do? Opinions appreciated.
: : : Jerry
: : I used to agree with this thought, until I actually laid down the hard earned cash, and bought a cassie... Best purchase I ever made. In a little under three months, I have already made back the original investment, and that was on a part-time work basis. The system is extremely easy to use, and compared to Premiere and some of the other PC or Mac based systems it's a breeze. Plus, I have yet to have a system crash while editing with my Cassie; however, I have used other systems, Avid's Media Composer 1000 included, where the systems have crashed on average 2 - 3 times a day! You tell me which is the better system: one where you can get the work done, or one where you are constantly re-booting and not editing. Plus, in case you haven't noticed, the price of the Cassie vs. some of the other systems (once you add all the bells and whistles to them) are not even in the same ball park! Cassie is not that expensive!
: : Darrell Conner
: : DarCon Productions
: Just wanted to add a few comments as an afterthought to the above posting that I made.
: (1)For the record, my Cassie is an 060 model with a 9gb drive. Total investment in the system was less than $6000 and that is including the addition of a second 9gb hard-drive that was purchased from a source other than Draco.
: (2)Sure you have render times that can be quite long, but what system doesn't have render ti


X-Darrell_Conner
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Jun 10, 1998, 11:25 AM

Post #8 of 13 (2274 views)
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Re: Cassie is too expensive!! I don't think so!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

: You have spent you hard earned dollars on the Cassie so you feel compelled to defend..I understand. I am not a dealer or proponent of any other systen....And believe it or not I still may buy a cassie....but IT is overpriced....
Jerry, that is your opinion, and I firmly believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Also, I agree that everyone should be able to get the best deal when making a purchase such as the Cassie. I feel that I got a good deal when I bought mine. Good luck in your endeavours to find the cheapest system possible. However be careful of what you get, if you decide to go away from the Cassie line. Also, be very very careful if you decide to go the route of piecing together a system for a PC or Mac based system with various components from various manufacturers. Some of these systems can become literal daily nightmares to deal with and get up and running if you ever do.
: If you can get much cheaper hard drives elsewhere like you said why doesn't DRACO just do the same D*** thing???? Your need to buy a key component elsewhere for the Cassie just makes my point...IT'S TO EXPENSIVE.
Draco is a company just like any other. Seeing as how they sell the basic editing system rather cheaply, I can't say that I blame them for marking up the price of the hard drives. Everyone (even big companies) are entitled to make a profit, aren't they? Just like you are entitled to find the best possible deal. Right? My suggestions if you are looking for a good deal. Find your best price on an 060 model of the Cassie without the hard drive, buy a couple of the sleds for the hard drive from Draco (about $50 each), and then buy whatever size hard-drive you want from an aftermarket distributor. I would suggest 9gb or 18gb. Lots of space. Plus you save on the hard drives for the system.
Good luck!!!
Darrell Conner
DarCon Productions




X-Andy_Highfield
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Jun 25, 1998, 4:11 AM

Post #9 of 13 (2274 views)
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Re: Cassie is too expensive!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Jerry, you really are talking absolute nonesense about a system you appear to know very little about. We use Casablanca, professionally, we also use Media 100, Avid or whatever else we need. 95% of the time, Casablanca does the same job every bit as quickly, it is more stable, and the results are outstanding. Rendering for hours??? Sorry, this is rubbish. It actually renders effects FASTER than most PC/MAC solutions. We know - we have and use these systems. I do not know where your "information" comes from, but it is defective. As for results, we sell material (edited on Casablanca) to major international broadcasters, including nationals like South Africa Broadcasting Corporation. We also produce videos which sell commercially in 18 countries. Again, on Casablanca. As for the titler - take a look at some FILMS will you? Not just MTV..... in any event, Monument Titler is available at very little additional cost. Our opinion: Casablanca is the best video production investment we have made in recent years. It paid for itself in 5 weeks.
Andy (Sothis Films) Wales, UK.



X-Denny_Williams
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Jun 27, 1998, 5:54 AM

Post #10 of 13 (2275 views)
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Re: Cassie is too expensive!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi, ya'll:

Frankly, from a third party point of view I find your arguments very informative. In late April I bought a PII 333mgz computer with 128megs ram, 6.1 gig HD and 9GB scsi Cheatah, the fastest AV drive at a reasonable price. The editing system, installed with the package was the DVMaster with Ulead MediaStudio Pro-5 which is an editing, CG, Paint, and audio editor, with Sound Forge thrown in for good measure. The entire system was about $6,000 from TriState out of New York, a company I will never deal with again, but that's another story.

I considered Casablanca primarily for its ease of use and stability and rejected it primarily for three reasons (which are not necessarily valid): 1--It was new, and for that reason, slightly scary. 2--Price. Certainly not outrageous, but I really needed a new computer, modem, etc and had to consider that as a factor. Also, I wanted the ability to work with analog and digital and to be able to convert between the two formats. DV input was available at further cost but even then I wasn't sure if it was input only or full I/O. Finally, 3: I was worried about the closed architecture and being held hostage to the whims of a single manufacturer.

My thoughts, after nearly 3 months living with my decision:
First, the learning curve was extremely high. I read the DVM and Ulead manuals from cover to cover first and then spent nearly 100 hours before I felt comfortable. (I spent hours and hours following the manual's description of chroma-keying for titles and they still looked cheesy. Then I found a line in the Ulead manual saying "you can also perform this function using the alpha channel." It was 10 times easier and looked 10 times better but, hey, I didn't know). I was reading through my graphics card manual and found a neat little function the computer people had never activated--TV on your computer. Cool! So I activated it and the program wrapped itself around the editing program and took it over like the seed pods in that Sci-Fi movie. I innactivated the program but it was still there. Removed the whole graphics card, re-installed it and it was still there. Removed everything, still there. Had to reformat my entire computer and was down nearly a week. Since then I edited a family vacation from several years ago shot on 8mm, a DV baptism, DV wedding and was working on a DV graduation when I happened to open the DVMaster program without closing the Ulead program...bad mistake since the DVM driver is used by both programs. The system crashed and the driver dissappeared and would not be re-loaded. Several hours on long-distance with Fast and Ulead did not help (Fast seemed more helpful). Finally, yesterday, I fixed it myself, almost by accident.

On the positive side, every problem seems to have been caused by inexperience. If you don't click the wrong field or push the wrong button it seems to work fine--just not very forgiving of mistakes. And, although I'm fairly computer literate, I'd never used an NLE system before. I feel like someone with experience in say, Media 100 or Avid could be editing in a few hours. And I think I could now teach someone to the point they were editing on their own in a few hours. Once you learn the basics, it's very easy and intuitive to drop the clips into the timeline, add your FX or titles and render a movie. On the home video I used a little of this and that, but for the buying public I seldom use anything but titles and crossfades (1000 effects sound neat, but 99% of the time 99% of them are just too jaring to have a place). A seven minute clip with 5 cross-fades, titles and music takes about half an hour to render (more, if you want animation like a simple flying font). I supposedly have the ability to partition my drive into 4 gig sections but I can't seem to get it to work, so now I am stuck with 2 gig, which is frustrating at times, and not an issue, as I understand it, with Casablanca.

The picture quality, graphics and titles is excellent--no degradation in either format. In fact, and don't argue with me here, analog comes out better than it went in, because I can improve saturation, brightness, contrast, hue, etc...but then you Cassie users must know what I'm talking about.

Sorry this is so long. I still am not certain I made the right decision. It may depend more on the support you all get from DRACO in the coming years than anything else. After 10 years of videography as a side job I jumped into it full-time and with a dwindling cash reserve decided to go whole hog digital and NLE. Had I not had that cash reserve and if I had needed money immediately, the learning curve would have put me on welfare I'm afraid. I can do some beautiful stuff with this system (I'm getting raves on quality and professional look) but my nightmare is having a major SNAFU/crash when I can least afford it.

On top of all those pluses and minuses, I do have this neat new computer, with a 56K modem and MS Office, in which I created a nifty little brochure. That surely counts for something, right?

...right?...


X-Jerry_Powell
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Jul 10, 1998, 1:53 AM

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Re: Cassie is too expensive!! [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Andy...
Thanks for the informative, yet derisive comments.
I personally have worked on a CASSIE with a local dealer. I also sat for 4 hours at the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) Cassie booth listening and talking with the CASSIE top experts as they ran the cassie. (which crashed and had to be re-booted several times by the way).
Point one: IT WAS SLOOOOOO in rendering. Even the cassie people admited as much. In fact, at NAB they specifically and intentionally did not work with clips longer than one minute at the DEMO because they did not want to turn off people waiting for rendering. It took 2 to 3 minutes to render EACH 2 or 3D transition. My experience when using it hands-on was the same. A small project could run several hours to render.... easy. This is not second hand information....I used the machine and visited with the CASSIE experts!
Point two. The "experts" at NAB also admitted that that the CG was not up to professional standards "but that by the summer of 98" they expect to improve.
Maybe they have by now...that last time I saw it was
in April.
Point three: Cassie matches an AVID?????.....just what are you smoking in the UK?
My own use of the CASSIE says it's a great machine but IT HAS IT'S LIMITATIONS...as do all systems. I stand by my opinion that for what it does $6000 plus $US is about $2000 to $3000 more than it's worth.
Best wishes from Omaha, Nebraska USA and happy videomaking!
Jerry


: Jerry, you really are talking absolute nonesense about a system you appear to know very little about. We use Casablanca, professionally, we also use Media 100, Avid or whatever else we need. 95% of the time, Casablanca does the same job every bit as quickly, it is more stable, and the results are outstanding. Rendering for hours??? Sorry, this is rubbish. It actually renders effects FASTER than most PC/MAC solutions. We know - we have and use these systems. I do not know where your "information" comes from, but it is de


X-Jerry_Powell
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Jul 10, 1998, 1:54 AM

Post #12 of 13 (2274 views)
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Re: Cassie is too expensive!! [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Andy...
Thanks for the informative, yet derisive comments.
I personally have worked on a CASSIE with a local dealer. I also sat for 4 hours at the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) Cassie booth listening and talking with the CASSIE top experts as they ran the cassie. (which crashed and had to be re-booted several times by the way).
Point one: IT WAS SLOOOOOO in rendering. Even the cassie people admited as much. In fact, at NAB they specifically and intentionally did not work with clips longer than one minute at the DEMO because they did not want to turn off people waiting for rendering. It took 2 to 3 minutes to render EACH 2 or 3D transition. My experience when using it hands-on was the same. A small project could run several hours to render.... easy. This is not second hand information....I used the machine and visited with the CASSIE experts!
Point two. The "experts" at NAB also admitted that that the CG was not up to professional standards "but that by the summer of 98" they expect to improve.
Maybe they have by now...that last time I saw it was
in April.
Point three: Cassie matches an AVID?????.....just what are you smoking in the UK?
My own use of the CASSIE says it's a great machine but IT HAS IT'S LIMITATIONS...as do all systems. I stand by my opinion that for what it does $6000 plus $US is about $2000 to $3000 more than it's worth.
Best wishes from Omaha, Nebraska USA and happy videomaking!
Jerry


: Jerry, you really are talking absolute nonesense about a system you appear to know very little about. We use Casablanca, professionally, we also use Media 100, Avid or whatever else we need. 95% of the time, Casablanca does the same job every bit as quickly, it is more stable, and the results are outstanding. Rendering for hours??? Sorry, this is rubbish. It actually renders effects FASTER than most PC/MAC solutions. We know - we have and use these systems. I do not know where your "information" comes from, but it is de


X-GR_Schmidt
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Jul 11, 1998, 12:25 PM

Post #13 of 13 (2274 views)
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Re: Cassie is too expensive!! [In reply to] Can't Post

: Am I the only one that thinks that the Cassie is way overpriced for what it can and can't do? Opinions appreciated.
: Jerry
It depends, check the prices on http://casadraco.hypermart.net