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Home: Inactive Forums: Casablanca Users:
Kron/Avio in schools

 

 


X-Janet
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Jun 1, 2002, 8:50 AM

Post #1 of 7 (647 views)
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Kron/Avio in schools Can't Post

I'm here for the first time. Considering buying Avios and Krons to use in high school broadcast journalism. I'd like to hear from other teachers about their experiences. e-mail me personally or post here. Thanks.


X-Banned_Bob
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Jun 1, 2002, 9:28 PM

Post #2 of 7 (647 views)
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Re: Kron/Avio in schools Can't Post

: I'm here for the first time. Considering buying Avios and Krons to use in high school broadcast journalism. I'd like to hear from other teachers about their experiences. e-mail me personally or post here. Thanks.
I'm not a teacher, but I've helped out with some schools in getting the Avios into the classrooms. They are quite a jump far ahead from the old linear editing ... tape to tape cutting of projects. Simple to set up and relatively simple to use for the basics. Only the iMac is easier to work with, but iMac only accepts DV input, not VHS or SVHS like so many schools are equipped for.
When you say "broadcast journalism", I'm assuming you're not referring to folks that will be doing complex editing, but rather simple storyboards ... sequential video clips with sound, or that will have narration cut over them later (needs to be rendered -- modest speed), and a few titles (must always be rendered -- slow!) and special transitions and effects (most need to be rendered -- slow!) from time to time. Fortunately, the vast majority of work in this field is cuts-only and natural sound, so the rendering won't be a real time-killer for most. With the Avios you'll be able to focus on the techniques of news gathering, composition of information, storyboarding, presentation, narration, scriptwriting, etc., with little need to worry about learning a video editing system. My six year old not only learned to edit with a Casablanca, but she also starred in a six minute "how-to" video on upgrading the processor and memory. Now THAT'S got to be easy!
OTOH, if you have DV cameras and relatively up-to-date PCs (they'll need those for scripting, etc. anyway), and you're preparing students for Hollywood or professional careers, you'll probably be a lot better off spending the money on the Avid DV Express 3.0 software. It's very easy to use ... very powerful in MANY ways, and even a modest speed computer (1GHz or so) gives complete immediate visual feedback with real-time multi-layered effects. For instance, with a 1.2 GHz Athlon system, I can have a video background, floating PIP with soft multicolored borders moving anywhere on the screen, and a title dissolving on and off, and view it all immediately in real time. Add some more layers and you can actually scroll very quickly through the video (almost real time) to view the effect, but actual playback will require a few seconds of rendering for the extra layers ... such as more PIPs, or superimposed alpha channel images. Now, it can be a little challenging to learn (but after all, this is high school, right, not six year olds?), but will give them far greater capabilities to edit top notch professional looking video in a reasonable amount of time. Also, they'll transition into most major studios without having to re-learn software.
I hope this helps.
bob


X-Ed_Resener
Imported Account

Jun 2, 2002, 11:46 AM

Post #3 of 7 (647 views)
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Re: Kron/Avio in schools [In reply to] Can't Post

: : I'm here for the first time. Considering buying Avios and Krons to use in high school broadcast journalism. I'd like to hear from other teachers about their experiences. e-mail me personally or post here. Thanks.
In my experiences with students...their learning curve on the AVIO is about 15 minutes...and they can start creating their own programs soon after that....most try and create epic programs and digitize great amounts of footage on to the hard drive...this is where the AVIO will out do the iMovie hands down...BTW CNN student news bureau will NOT accept programs done on an iMovie... so think long and hard about your choices...also Broadcast is a great field..but there are other areas of video communications to also direct your students towards....
Ed
: I'm not a teacher, but I've helped out with some schools in getting the Avios into the classrooms. They are quite a jump far ahead from the old linear editing ... tape to tape cutting of projects. Simple to set up and relatively simple to use for the basics. Only the iMac is easier to work with, but iMac only accepts DV input, not VHS or SVHS like so many schools are equipped for.
: When you say "broadcast journalism", I'm assuming you're not referring to folks that will be doing complex editing, but rather simple storyboards ... sequential video clips with sound, or that will have narration cut over them later (needs to be rendered -- modest speed), and a few titles (must always be rendered -- slow!) and special transitions and effects (most need to be rendered -- slow!) from time to time. Fortunately, the vast majority of work in this field is cuts-only and natural sound, so the rendering won't be a real time-killer for most. With the Avios you'll be able to focus on the techniques of news gathering, composition of information, storyboarding, presentation, narration, scriptwriting, etc., with little need to worry about learning a video editing system. My six year old not only learned to edit with a Casablanca, but she also starred in a six minute "how-to" video on upgrading the processor and memory. Now THAT'S got to be easy!
: OTOH, if you have DV cameras and relatively up-to-date PCs (they'll need those for scripting, etc. anyway), and you're preparing students for Hollywood or professional careers, you'll probably be a lot better off spending the money on the Avid DV Express 3.0 software. It's very easy to use ... very powerful in MANY ways, and even a modest speed computer (1GHz or so) gives complete immediate visual feedback with real-time multi-layered effects. For instance, with a 1.2 GHz Athlon system, I can have a video background, floating PIP with soft multicolored borders moving anywhere on the screen, and a title dissolving on and off, and view it all immediately in real time. Add some more layers and you can actually scroll very quickly through the video (almost real time) to view the effect, but actual playback will require a few seconds of rendering for the extra layers ... such as more PIPs, or superimposed alpha channel images. Now, it can be a little challenging to learn (but after all, this is high school, right, not six year olds?), but will give them far greater capabilities to edit top notch professional looking video in a reasonable amount of time. Also, they'll transition into most major studios without having to re-learn software.
: I hope this helps.
: bob


X-Janet
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Jun 2, 2002, 6:45 PM

Post #4 of 7 (646 views)
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But what about the Kron? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks guys, but neither of you mentioned the Kron. Is it a little more powerful and sophisticated than the Avio as I've been led to believe. Yes, as far as broadcast journalism most of our editing will be short package stories (1.5 to 2.5 mins.) but there are many occasions for inserting video or voice over. One application I had for Avio is for my kids to go out and train a few middle school kids to produce stories about their school activities for us to use in our community cable shows and they could show them on their in-house system. Sounds like Avio is tailor made for that purpose but also sounds like it is perhaps less than challenging for my high school kids. But what about the Kron? Is it sufficiently a few steps above?It also has DVD burner now with authoring software. Any experience with that? Titles will be added in almost every case and it sounds like that will increase rendering time. One of you mentioned other avenues in addition to the broadcast journalism. My classes also do event tapings, but the Avios won't be used to edit that....the Krons might be but most events don't require major editing (ball games, PTO programs, etc.) One vendor has been pushing me to Adobe Premiere. I'd welcome some more comments.


X-Banned_Bob
Imported Account

Jun 3, 2002, 12:28 AM

Post #5 of 7 (647 views)
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Re: But what about the Kron? [In reply to] Can't Post

: Thanks guys, but neither of you mentioned the Kron. Is it a little more powerful and sophisticated than the Avio as I've been led to believe.
I own both. I bought the Kron barely used by a guy dumping it for $2100. The Kron is double the processor speed, but by today's standards it's a SLOOOOW 500MHz. No, the software is really pretty much the same -- still a storyboard -- no timeline editing -- PIPs are a royal pain -- I still stick with simple stuff on both the Kron and Avio since I generally try to avoid massive frustration.
: ... inserting video or voice over ...
Both Avio and Kron will require rendering for transitions to/from any video inserts, and for every VO change made. The iMac iMovie is much, much smoother at putting together VOs and music and/or SFX on extra tracks.
: One application I had for Avio is for my kids to go out and train a few middle school kids to produce stories about their school activities for us to use in our community cable shows and they could show them on their in-house system. Sounds like Avio is tailor made for that purpose but also sounds like it is perhaps less than challenging for my high school kids.
That sounds like a great use for the Avio. Go for it.
: But what about the Kron? Is it sufficiently a few steps above?
No.
: It also has DVD burner now with authoring software.
For $400 you can put a DVD burner with more versatile software into any PC. $30 for a firewire card to get the video into it.
: Any experience with that? Titles will be added in almost every case and it sounds like that will increase rendering time.
Some have reported success with the DVD in the Kron. I tried working with it for a few weeks, wasted a number of DVDs and got no help from the Cassie Tips lists or dealers to cure the problem. Never got even one to burn, even though the system acted like it was working. Very strange. I stuck the DVD burner in a PC and am doing great. I burn basic DVDs in a Panasonic E20 recorder and they're excellent.
: One of you mentioned other avenues in addition to the broadcast journalism. My classes also do event tapings, but the Avios won't be used to edit that....the Krons might be but most events don't require major editing (ball games, PTO programs, etc.)
I don't know why you would do simple events with a $4000+ Kron when a $1500 will do exactly the same thing. Hey, it's your choice, but it seems like a waste to me. Personally, I tape live events, edit and duplicate them on-site, and sell the tapes before the participants go home -- All on 3 Avios. The Kron only introduces more bugs to get in the way of a quick, clean edit. That's my experience.
: One vendor has been pushing me to Adobe Premiere. I'd welcome some more comments.
Adobe Premiere has become pretty much an industry standard for a variety of PC-based multimedia to mid-range video productions. It can be quite difficult to master (even more so than the Avid software). Unfortunately, configuration problems tend to plague those setting up and using it. Some folks are in love with it. I don't have the patience for it. I've bought it for three different computers over the years, and I have yet to be able to complete one full project with it. It seems to do some things well, but falls down in other areas. I guess if you have enough time and are very focused, it would do well for you.


X-Mark
Imported Account

Jun 7, 2002, 2:19 AM

Post #6 of 7 (647 views)
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What I've done [In reply to] Can't Post

A year or two ago, when I was (personally) looking for an editing solution for home / small business use, I looked at Avio, but what it looked like to me was it was too pre-packaged for serious use. What I wanted to be able to do was upgrade the heck out of it (adding more hard drives, memory, software, etc). I just don't think Avio (or Kron, but I never looked at it due to price) has that ability.
I went the PC route. I bought a custom-built PC, with a Pentium 4 1.9 GHZ processor, 256 MB of RAM (low to begin with, plan to up that), a 40 GB system hard drive and 60 GB video hard drive, with a large case for plenty of adding space later. I'm going to be swapping out the 60 GB drive soon and adding two 120 GB drives as I'm about to begin shooting and cutting a DV feature film. 60 GB for me (in DV format) gets about 4 1/2 hours of open space. If you're going to be using it for numerous people like a classroom environment, you want as big of a hard drive as possible. The Avio has 20 GB last I saw, and though you can adjust time by sacraficing quality, why bother? I go to a college that has three Premiere editing rooms, and each computer has about 90 GB of storage and they always get maxed out quickly, even with little projects.
As for software, I've used Premiere and found it difficult to use. I instead went with Vegas Video 3.0 from Sonic Foundry. It's pretty much the same type of program as Premiere, but MUCH easier to use, especially for younger people. Uses a timeline format and it is easy for beginners and powerful for the advanced. I also added a small audio editing software and Sonic Foundry's ACID program for creating original music beds. Avio can't give you stuff like that. By the way, if its for a school, definitely look for Academic Licenses. Much cheaper. The academic price I got Vegas for was $160. I believe the Premiere academic price is in the $250+ range. I had to do a few production projects for my college classes, and though they tried to press me into editing on Premiere, I took my work home with me and did them on Vegas. Impressed the heck out of die-hard Premiere users. PIP, audio, effects, titling, and anything else you'd need for news packages are RIDICULOUSLY EASY in Vegas. It took me maybe 45 minutes to cut together a 7.5 minute "news program" on Vegas, that was taking people 6-10 hours in Premiere to do. Vegas isn't really industry standard like Premiere is, but I never went into my major/business to be "professional."
Mark
PS. For info on Vegas, go to www.sonicfoundry.com or email me


X-Martyn
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Jun 7, 2002, 4:17 PM

Post #7 of 7 (647 views)
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Re: But what about the Kron? [In reply to] Can't Post

Janet,
For fast learning and ease of use the Avio is ideal and very stable....no crashes or loss of work. Hard drive capacity is now up to an optional 80gb (340 minutes native DV). As all transitions (that are not instant), titles etc can be previewed rendering is not a problem and batch rendering can be carried out at any time, the machine switches itself off at completion. With AvioPro 10 projects can be handled simultaneously (with school edition 30 password protected projects). As a dealer in the UK (and no axe to grind in the US) we have sold many to schools and pros, and as for problems we find the same customers seem to have all the problems...I think that speaks for itself. Each school supplied has bought more machines. If you want an easy life stick with the Avio.
PS as the Pro software is basically the Kron software I would recommend the Avio with Pro software unless you want to burn DVD's.
Martyn
www.dalco.co.uk