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Home: Inactive Forums: Casablanca Users:
New or Used Casablanca?

X-Marty_M
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Jan 17, 2003, 7:14 PM

Post #1 of 8 (863 views)
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New or Used Casablanca?	Can't Post

I am brand new to editing, and trying to decide between
a Kron or Prestige, or another stand alone, or Storm2.....
Yup, I AM CONFUSED! I want to edit weddings, and am looking
for the one with the easiest learning curve....and also if
buying a used stand alone is a smart move, since the new ones
are kind of out of my finacial reach right now.
Thanks for your input.

X-Steve
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Jan 18, 2003, 3:20 PM

Post #2 of 8 (862 views)
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Re: New or Used Casablanca?	Can't Post

: I am brand new to editing, and trying to decide between
: a Kron or Prestige, or another stand alone, or Storm2.....
: Yup, I AM CONFUSED! I want to edit weddings, and am looking
: for the one with the easiest learning curve....and also if
: buying a used stand alone is a smart move, since the new ones
: are kind of out of my finacial reach right now.
: Thanks for your input.
A used Avio with an 80 GB hard disk drive would be the right choice, I guess.
You will need as much hd-capacity as you can get (for weddings).
The learning curve is the same compared to a Prestige. You will be able to edit your first video after one day of practice.
Bob, now it's your turn :-)
Steve

X-Banned_Bob
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Jan 19, 2003, 8:47 AM

Post #3 of 8 (862 views)
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Re: New or Used Casablanca? [In reply to]	Can't Post

: A used Avio with an 80 GB hard disk drive ...
: The learning curve is the same compared to a Prestige. You will be able to edit your first video after one day of practice.
: Bob, now it's your turn :-)
: Steve
I'm sure that Marty is simply wanting to take the amateur videos that friends shot at his wedding and make something beautiful from them. So I must agree wholeheartedly with Steve. A used Avio (base model) should cost about $700 or less. It'll cost $90 for permission from MS to use a >20GB drive (www.ody.net), plus $85 for an 80GB hard drive (www.pricewatch.com) for a total of less than $1000.
You can learn all the Avio features in about 2 hours and kick out a nice wedding video you can be proud of. If, perchance, you decide that you really like this video stuff, and want to pursue a financially profitable venture, you can also take months to learn the workarounds to do what the computer-based systems do relatively easily, and spend thousands of dollars on Avio add-ons that are already included in the computer-based systems and not quite achieve what you hope for. Or, as you start to accumulate your fortune, you save up for a computer based system to save you time and money in the long run and let you concentrate on the video, not the workarounds.
It's a given that learning is the essence and, in fact, one of the great joys of life. It's no different in video work. I'm constantly learning new features that were included in the workhorse of my editing systems (XDV). Yes, it took several hours to learn the basics (slightly longer than the Avio/Kron), but fortunately, that didn't exhaust system resources. Just about every time I ask myself, "I wonder if I can do ..." {fill in the blank} I take few minutes and find a feature that provides a way. Fortunately the program wasn't designed for and by video beginners ... but has been developed over decades by professionals, and put into an interface that makes it relatively easy to learn. And the interface doesn't dramtacally change when a programmer takes a notion to pretty up the interface to attract new customers on the next version. Kinda like driving a car. It takes a little while to learn, but once you've got the hang of it, you can take it as far as you want to go.
Good luck!

X-Marty_M
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Jan 19, 2003, 11:59 AM

Post #4 of 8 (862 views)
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Re: New or Used Casablanca? [In reply to]	Can't Post

: : A used Avio with an 80 GB hard disk drive ...
: : The learning curve is the same compared to a Prestige. You will be able to edit your first video after one day of practice.
: : Bob, now it's your turn :-)
: : Steve
: I'm sure that Marty is simply wanting to take the amateur videos that friends shot at his wedding and make something beautiful from them. So I must agree wholeheartedly with Steve. A used Avio (base model) should cost about $700 or less. It'll cost $90 for permission from MS to use a >20GB drive (www.ody.net), plus $85 for an 80GB hard drive (www.pricewatch.com) for a total of less than $1000.
: You can learn all the Avio features in about 2 hours and kick out a nice wedding video you can be proud of. If, perchance, you decide that you really like this video stuff, and want to pursue a financially profitable venture, you can also take months to learn the workarounds to do what the computer-based systems do relatively easily, and spend thousands of dollars on Avio add-ons that are already included in the computer-based systems and not quite achieve what you hope for. Or, as you start to accumulate your fortune, you save up for a computer based system to save you time and money in the long run and let you concentrate on the video, not the workarounds.
: It's a given that learning is the essence and, in fact, one of the great joys of life. It's no different in video work. I'm constantly learning new features that were included in the workhorse of my editing systems (XDV). Yes, it took several hours to learn the basics (slightly longer than the Avio/Kron), but fortunately, that didn't exhaust system resources. Just about every time I ask myself, "I wonder if I can do ..." {fill in the blank} I take few minutes and find a feature that provides a way. Fortunately the program wasn't designed for and by video beginners ... but has been developed over decades by professionals, and put into an interface that makes it relatively easy to learn. And the interface doesn't dramtacally change when a programmer takes a notion to pretty up the interface to attract new customers on the next version. Kinda like driving a car. It takes a little while to learn, but once you've got the hang of it, you can take it as far as you want to go.
: Good luck!
Thanks Steve & Bob for your advise,
I am the one thats actually doing the shooting at the weddings.
I just bought a vx2000 & pd150, so I'm already investing pretty
heavy, but unfortunatly, I don't have the TECHNO mind that you
guys have....that's why I'm looking for an editing system with
real good transitions, effects etc. that won't take me forever
to learn.

X-Banned_Bob
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Jan 19, 2003, 2:25 PM

Post #5 of 8 (862 views)
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Re: New or Used Casablanca? [In reply to]	Can't Post

: Thanks Steve & Bob for your advise,
: I am the one thats actually doing the shooting at the weddings.
: I just bought a vx2000 & pd150, so I'm already investing pretty
: heavy, but unfortunatly, I don't have the TECHNO mind that you
: guys have....that's why I'm looking for an editing system with
: real good transitions, effects etc. that won't take me forever
: to learn.
It sounds like you must be serious about getting started in the video business (over $5K on just two cameras!). Do you have experience in the field, or is this just going to be a hobby?
If a hobby, Marty, the Avio again would be fine to start out with. In fact, some of the Avio documentation does state that the unit is for hobbyists.
But if you're going at this as a business, hopefully you already have some experience in the field. I'd say you'd be much better off to spend a few hundred more on a good system and not have to deal with the frustration. If you're a student, you'd actually be able to spend less using a student discount deal.
You don't need to be technical to use a PC or Mac system for video editing. It's all extremely well documented and easy to get loaded and started. As I mentioned before, it only takes a few hours to learn the basics. On a wedding, if you're shooting with those two cameras, you can very easily do your basic wedding editing in short order. When shooting, start both cameras at the same time and flash a camera or spot a movement that will be picked up on both cameras. After capturing the footage in the computer, lay down cam1 on track 1, and cam2 on track 2. Cut out what you don't want to see on track 2, and track 1 shows through. Do the same on the audio tracks if you desire. Then drop on the dissolves (one easy step to put on all transitions), and it's done. Since Avio only has one track, it's impossible to easily do this, although you can find complex involved workarounds that will take hours to perform on a half-hour wedding. When you want to get fancy, that's where it becomes a whole lot easier on XDV, and a whole lot harder on Avio/Kron.
On the other hand, if you're not willing to commit yourself to a few hours or days of learning skills that will feed you for years to come, then you owe it to yourself to buy an AvioDV Pro with all the add-ons, and plan on upgrading to a Kron or Prestige to get the same performance in a steel box instead of plastic.

X-Steve
Imported Account

Jan 19, 2003, 3:07 PM

Post #6 of 8 (863 views)
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Re: New or Used Casablanca? [In reply to]	Can't Post

: You don't need to be technical to use a PC or Mac system for video editing. It's all extremely well documented and easy to get loaded and started. As I mentioned before, it only takes a few hours to learn the basics. On a wedding, if you're shooting with those two cameras, you can very easily do your basic wedding editing in short order. When shooting, start both cameras at the same time and flash a camera or spot a movement that will be picked up on both cameras. After capturing the footage in the computer, lay down cam1 on track 1, and cam2 on track 2. Cut out what you don't want to see on track 2, and track 1 shows through. Do the same on the audio tracks if you desire. Then drop on the dissolves (one easy step to put on all transitions), and it's done.
But: please keep in mind not to stop any of your cameras during shooting or you will have to find another sync. point

X-Marty_M
Imported Account

Jan 19, 2003, 7:10 PM

Post #7 of 8 (862 views)
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Re: New or Used Casablanca? [In reply to]	Can't Post

: : Thanks Steve & Bob for your advise,
: : I am the one thats actually doing the shooting at the weddings.
: : I just bought a vx2000 & pd150, so I'm already investing pretty
: : heavy, but unfortunatly, I don't have the TECHNO mind that you
: : guys have....that's why I'm looking for an editing system with
: : real good transitions, effects etc. that won't take me forever
: : to learn.
: It sounds like you must be serious about getting started in the video business (over $5K on just two cameras!). Do you have experience in the field, or is this just going to be a hobby?
: If a hobby, Marty, the Avio again would be fine to start out with. In fact, some of the Avio documentation does state that the unit is for hobbyists.
: But if you're going at this as a business, hopefully you already have some experience in the field. I'd say you'd be much better off to spend a few hundred more on a good system and not have to deal with the frustration. If you're a student, you'd actually be able to spend less using a student discount deal.
: You don't need to be technical to use a PC or Mac system for video editing. It's all extremely well documented and easy to get loaded and started. As I mentioned before, it only takes a few hours to learn the basics. On a wedding, if you're shooting with those two cameras, you can very easily do your basic wedding editing in short order. When shooting, start both cameras at the same time and flash a camera or spot a movement that will be picked up on both cameras. After capturing the footage in the computer, lay down cam1 on track 1, and cam2 on track 2. Cut out what you don't want to see on track 2, and track 1 shows through. Do the same on the audio tracks if you desire. Then drop on the dissolves (one easy step to put on all transitions), and it's done. Since Avio only has one track, it's impossible to easily do this, although you can find complex involved workarounds that will take hours to perform on a half-hour wedding. When you want to get fancy, that's where it becomes a whole lot easier on XDV, and a whole lot harder on Avio/Kron.
: On the other hand, if you're not willing to commit yourself to a few hours or days of learning skills that will feed you for years to come, then you owe it to yourself to buy an AvioDV Pro with all the add-ons, and plan on upgrading to a Kron or Prestige to get the same performance in a steel box instead of plastic.
Hey that is some seious advice, thanks
I got into this business by shooting wedding receptions of
the bands that I book. I own an entertainment co. that books
bands & dj's. I shoot the weddings to show my clients how
the guests interact. And brides have been asking me to
give them a copy of what I do....Now I'm really loving the
video shooting, but I have no experiance shooting ceremonies.
I guess what I'd like to do is add on the video service.
So I know I have a lot of learning to do.
What total system do you suggest, and how much would it be?
Thanks again, I really appreciate the input

X-Banned_Bob
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Jan 20, 2003, 2:35 PM

Post #8 of 8 (863 views)
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Re: New or Used Casablanca? [In reply to]	Can't Post

: Hey that is some seious advice, thanks
: ... Now I'm really loving the video shooting,
: but I have no experiance shooting ceremonies.
: I guess what I'd like to do is add on the video
: service. So I know I have a lot of learning
: to do.
Fortunately, there's a lot of help available on shooting weddings and techniques ... Hal Langley's Video University web site here is a great place to start.
: What total system do you suggest, and how much would it be?
: Thanks again, I really appreciate the input
The Avid Xpress DV 3.5 software is probably the most expensive component at this point ($1500), but will run on most any current WindowsXP computer and do a great job of it. You also will avoid being nickel and dimed to death by add-ons for effects, fonts, transfer software, etc., etc. I bought it and put it on an old 1.4GHz I bought back in 2001. I added a $30 firewire card from CompUSA and a couple extra hard drives and all works well. Buy as large of a secondary hard drive as you can afford. Even though a 120GB drive will hold several weddings' worth of video, you can always use more space. Of course if you're really struggling, and the base computer drive is 40GB or more, you can easily accommodoate two shoots at a time ... it's just a whole lot better using a different drive.
That's probably about the limit of space I should take up here on the Casablanca forum, but a good resource site for XDV is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AXDVR