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Home: Video University Forums: Audio For Video:
Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U

Ron Priest
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Jun 18, 2008, 7:04 PM

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Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U	Can't Post

Okay so I finally ordered a Z1U, what mics are you guys using on it?
___________________
Ron

Mark Foley
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Jun 19, 2008, 4:44 AM

Post #2 of 18 (1318 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ron,
I may be in the minority...but my only use for on-camera audio is sync only. Camera mics are so prone to handling noises that investing in any mic for the cam only gets the retailer richer :-). In addition, HDV camera audio is compressed 16 bit.

...just my two cents....

_________________________
Mark

Ron Priest
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Jun 19, 2008, 8:11 AM

Post #3 of 18 (1306 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Well maybe just a dummy mic then so I can at least look cool. I want a big one, one that has a big dead cat hanging on it. Wink

___________________
Ron

JeffErie
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Jun 19, 2008, 8:44 AM

Post #4 of 18 (1301 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

Why not get something, then, that can serve a dual purpose.

I have the Azden SGM2x shotgun. I use it, as mark put it, for ambient and for sync. But it is a great outdoor boom mic with proper wind protection.

Jeff Natalie - President, ErieKIDS
ErieKIDS Blog
"In the Middle" debuts November 13, 2008

Ron Priest
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Jun 19, 2008, 9:16 AM

Post #5 of 18 (1296 views)
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Re: [JeffErie] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Jeff

Yeah, I will need something for those times that I want to plug a wireless to one of the XLR's. When you do that, it deems the internal onboard mic useless. So I figure the add on mic is needed for ambient. So I don't need to spend a whole lot, that's for sure.
___________________
Ron

MLiebergot
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Jun 19, 2008, 10:40 AM

Post #6 of 18 (1290 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ron, the best affordable mic in my mind is the Rode NTG2. It can run on either Phantom or Battery power, and has very good specs.
It will work great outdoors like a shotgun mic should, NTG2 has good side rejection for a shotgun mic, and will do a very respectable job indoors (better than most shotgun mics).
While the sennheiser ME66 is a very good shotgun mic, it's waaaaay too hot to be used indoors.

As you can tell, I am a fan of the Rode mics, as I have a matched pair of NT5's (2 sets of caps Cardiod and Omni), NT3 (hyper, will be selling soon), (2) M3's, and (2) NTG2's.
I wish they had the NT55's out when I purchased the NT5s a few years back, as they come with 2 switchabel capsules (Cardiod and Omni, which I had to purchase separately), but even better have an internal switchable (3 position) pad like the M3 does, which would work even better for extremely loud recording (which is why I bought the M3s). Oh well, I am done with the mic and recorder buying for quite a while so the NT55s will never make it to me. No need, as my mics are set.
Oh and of course I also have my AT822, but it's not a Rode. Wink

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

fr0gm@n
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Jun 19, 2008, 4:50 PM

Post #7 of 18 (1263 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

Oh well, I am done with the mic and recorder buying for quite a while so the NT55s will never make it to me.

Yea right.... Tongue

You're only done till the next improvement to the R44 comes out. You know when the R44 X2000 hits the shelves you will be all over it like a fly on honey. Laugh

Just playing with ya! You and Foley are to audio what most of us are to cameras.....and I mean that in a good way. Smile

Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog

MLiebergot
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Jun 19, 2008, 5:20 PM

Post #8 of 18 (1262 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

He he, trust me I'm done.
The account won't take anymore.
Also, the R-44 is really my dream box, as it's much more compact and lighter than the R-4 was, and even has better features found in the R-4 Pro (like selectable power input). The limiter on it is rock solid and I really love the independent Input level knobs. As I can set my sensitivity for each channel separately from +4--56 db, and then adjust the level next for each channel. This gives me even more of a recording pad in which to work with. That and also having the ability to get 2 stereo feeds form the 4 channels lets me send either dual mixdown feeds to my camera via wireless, or to send to the camera via Line input.

There's even more to love, but I don't want to sound like I am having a love affair with my box. Wink

Once I am able to get a steady consistent recording workflow down, then there's a very good chance that I might streamline my recording so much that I won't have the need for my small recorders anymore. But I would still hold onto 1-2 of them just in case of situations where I can't use wireless units like the USNA in Annapolis, and very small record and done shoots.

Really for anyone who wants to take their audio far beyond the next level, you can't beat the quality and price of this box. Yes it's expensive, but compare this to the Sound Devices 744, it will save you $3,100. For the price of one 744, you could buy (3) R-44s. Many on the tapers forum, actually are saying thay they can't justify spending so much on the 744 for the quality compared to the R-44. And they spend money on audio stuff like most here do on video.

I guess in comparison for many here, the 744 would be the Sony EX, and the R-44 would be the Sony Z7 or Canon A1.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

fr0gm@n
Veteran

Jun 19, 2008, 5:33 PM

Post #9 of 18 (1259 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

My business partner from the other company we are part of is an audio geek....although not quite to the extent you are. Wink

I have showed him the R44 a few times. Since he doesn't do weddings anymore he just brings a laptop and small behringer mixer to jobs we do and records right to the laptop from the mixer. On our recent piano recital he was running audio from the school's sound booth, feeding a line down to me into a mixer where I could monitor it. From there it went into an AV/DV convertor and recorded with the video mix from his Edirol video mixer straight to laptop. Worked awesome. He even brought in his personal piano mic and ran it through the house system as well so guests could hear well.

Here's a small demo we kicked out to try and spur orders for the owner. RIght now her orders are not enough to cover the fees. She is hoping it will spur sales or she is going to be paying out of her pocket a bunch of money.

http://avwis123.moorecastsites.com/upload_user/aos.wmv

When the choir sang he was getting the mix on the fly as there was no way to rehearse it ahead of time. The drum was a little loud but overall we were happy with the quality considering there was not way to test ahead of time. The school provided 3 nice shotguns for the choir and we pointed them appropriately for a good balance. I figured you would even approve of this one. Wink

Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog

MLiebergot
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Jun 19, 2008, 5:45 PM

Post #10 of 18 (1257 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

Must be nice having a dedicated sound tech for your gigs.
This is how it should be done always.

But us small timers can't afford to hire sound techs.
In my case, I am a sound tech, trying to shoot video. Wink

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

MLiebergot
Veteran

Jun 19, 2008, 5:49 PM

Post #11 of 18 (1255 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

Oh BTW, nice recording.
You are right the drum was definitely too loud and drowned out the guitar and singers. But the piano recoding sounded very good and I always love acoustic guitar that's nice and crisp.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

fr0gm@n
Veteran

Jun 19, 2008, 5:58 PM

Post #12 of 18 (1252 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

He's not along on all my gigs but with the corp work it is nice having someone to understand that side of the equation. Sometimes he will help me out on a SDE and help by uploading footage and I just turn him loose to fire up my H2 and wireless mics. He has a few H4s that he will hook up to the DJ to help out as well. When he is there I just concentrate on shooting. It does helps.

We recently did an outdoor wedding at a top end resort. They hired him to provide audio for the reception. Of course the wind was really bad. Before the ceremony we do a sound check and it sounds pretty good. We had a boundary mic for the strings and it worked flawlessly. Once the ceremony started and the ministers mic was turned up the wind noise was really bad. He turned up the feedback buster (whatever that is) and helped reduce the wind noise but when the wind blew too hard instead of giving us noise it just cut out to nothing. It was very challenging to say the least. I had tried the trick I leared from the sound people at Video 08 and hid the mic behind a plastic spoon. The minister was wearing both mics and I think his wireless for the main audio blocked my mic from the wind. My mic on the minister and the groom were perfect all the way through. I'm sitting there listening to the main audio breaking up and wondering what happened. My audio that I was monitoring from the minister was perfect the whole time. Dodged a big one there.

They had a kick butt band at the reception and he was pulling a feed the whole night from their sound board to a laptop. I haven't listened to it yet. He said it worked well. They were fun to listen to so hopefully he nailed that.

Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog

WCardone
User

Jun 20, 2008, 4:27 PM

Post #13 of 18 (1186 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

When buying a shotgun mic for the Z1 be careful to get one with a diameter that matches the Z1 holder.

Also, the rubber isolation bumpers in the holder are probably insufficient. Any shotgun mic is going to be end-heavy and cause the mic case to touch the holder thereby nullifying the sound isolation of the bumpers bringing in sometimes barely discernable camera motor noise. I bought an adapter from B & H that mounts in the Z1 holder and then your mic mounts in the adapter with absolute isolation.

Before I bought the adapter I used bandage medical tape to wrap around the mic. You have to get the number of wraps exactly right, though, or else you nullify the sound isolation.

In the end, I only rarely actually use sound captured from a shotgun mic. I use it as a backup.
----------------
Wesley Cardone
http://www.WCardoneProductions.com

Timothy Harry
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Jun 22, 2008, 11:52 AM

Post #14 of 18 (1105 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

im using the senheiser ME66 when I need an on camera shotgu....but normally it is used on a boompole for interviews etc

Tim Harry

Bandwagon Media
Dallas, TX

RustyB
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Jun 22, 2008, 3:50 PM

Post #15 of 18 (1090 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

For a while I used the Rode NTG-1 on the Z1U/Canon A1/etc, and really liked it. I originally bought it because it was short, had good reviews, and within my very limited budget...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/...tgun_Microphone.html

It's only $250, but you'll also need a short XLR cable, of course.

You don't need the battery powered NTG-2 to use on your camera, but I guess for some other applications it would be handy. I just do weddings, so those applications never come up...I just need it for my camera, which powers the mic just fine. If you shoot plays and school videos, maybe thet NTG-2 might be a better investment...it's only $20 more...but I think it's also about 2.5 inches longer!!

I really liked it a lot over the stock PD170 mic.

These days, my videos are focusing more on the PEOPLE at the wedding...not endless shots of the table decorations at the reception or reveal shots of Mary statues from behind the bushes in front of the church. Being able to isolate the a person's laugh, or a little comment, during a candid moment, works pretty well with the NTG-1, versus a jumble of noise from a built-in camera mic...and sounds WAY better than just deleting all the natural audio and covering it with Shania Twain or the soundtrack from Gladiator. Tongue

I shoot alone and don't use a lot of audio recorders/sources. Ideally, I like the Rode NTG-1 on channel 1/groom's wireless on channel 2 for the ceremony, with my stationary balcony cam recording the ambient/music. For the reception, it's the Rode NTG-1 on channel 1/DJ's speaker on channel 2.

Whenever I can afford to sell my current FX7 and buy a V1U with XLR inputs, I'll be going back to that setup, and buying another NTG-1 (sold mine when I bought the FX7). It works perfect for me!

And like Wesley says, pretty much whatever you buy, you'll have to fit it to the camera's holder. I just wrapped it with gaffer's tape, for a nice fit. I'm sure an expensive mic isolator would work much better, but you'll never tell the difference in one of my wedding videos. For an on-camera mic, I could care less. If it was THAT big of an issue, I'd have a sound guy with a mic boom, producers keeping everyone quiet around me, and the client would be paying a heck of a lot extra for it. Wink

Good luck!

faith poison wedding films
anger is an energy

Ron Priest
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Jun 22, 2008, 4:04 PM

Post #16 of 18 (1087 views)
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Re: [WCardone] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I bought an adapter from B & H that mounts in the Z1 holder and then your mic mounts in the adapter with absolute isolation.

Before I bought the adapter ...

Do you have a link to the adapter your speaking of?
___________________
Ron

Bob A
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Jun 22, 2008, 4:43 PM

Post #17 of 18 (1081 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Here's a small demo we kicked out to try and spur orders for the owner. Right now her orders are not enough to cover the fees. She is hoping it will spur sales or she is going to be paying out of her pocket a bunch of money.

OT for this thread a bit, but even at minimum wage for 2 people she does not have a chance of breaking even. I only saw about 17 kids, and at any price the probable sales will not cover costs. Those small events are better considered 'public service' than 'for profit' gigs. Even if she sells 100% it won't fly. There is another fellow on another forum that is going through this same thing and banging his head triyng to make small performance events profitable - it aint gonna happen. I keep 'splaining it to him, to no avail.

fr0gm@n
Veteran

Jun 22, 2008, 5:16 PM

Post #18 of 18 (1075 views)
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Re: [Bob A] Any Suggestions for a Shotgun Mic for the Z1U [In reply to]	Can't Post

What you saw was only a portion of the recital. The studio does piano, voice, guitar and drum lessons. In the past the recital was one long performance. It has grown and is now 2 performances with half the students in each. She has 100 students total and 84 performed in the 2 recitals. The 17 you saw were part of a single "choir" number done by all the voice students. There were a bunch of piano students and some a fair number of guitar students. In the past she has always sold enough to cover costs. I don't know if the percentage numbers are there to cover the full cost of our fees but she should be lots closer than the 20 she has sold so far. She is 30 sales short of breaking even.

Next year we are thinking of either doing presales for a set price and charging more at the door and having her start pushing them early in the year. Because of some issues locally (like basement flooding) she didn't start pushing them till the last minute.

We are toying with the idea of recommending she just charge a dollar more per class for each student and just giving everyone that performs a DVD of the recital. Just work the fees into the lessons.

Not sure what is going to happen on this one. I think she does have the number of students to at least get closer to the break even point of 50 sales.

Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog