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Home: Video University Forums: Audio For Video:
Convince me this plan is wrong

 
 


fr0gm@n
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Jul 13, 2008, 12:44 PM

Post #1 of 9 (1461 views)
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Convince me this plan is wrong Can't Post
Saturday we worked in a church that allows no wireless mics. We have plenty of other options so we are ok but we just lose a layer of redundancy. What we had. 1 Zoom H2 used for recording the organ. 4-iRivers for the groom, minister, podium and one extra for backup. Everything came out nice and the idea of not needing to monitor a wireless all the time (one on my cam and one on my wife's cam) was very nice. It freed us up to concentrate on other stuff....or at least took a little stress away.

I am wondering if I should sell off one of my wireless setups (I have 2) and use the money to invest in another H2 or a similar type device that is a little better quality. I would keep one of my wireless (Senn G1) for projects that require it and also for using RustyB's plan of micing the DJ speaker at the reception. I would then go wireless free at a ceremony....is this hairbrained or a valid workflow. I know that I lose monitoring control of the mic but the times I have had to go without wireless, I set the level on the groom and minister iRiver and they were fine.

Just curious what others think of the idea.

Oh....and unless my Samson wireless will cover the cost of an R44 don't even recommend it.Wink I am thinking H2 type device but one of the better models discussed here.


Shouldn't TV's Discovery Channel be on a different station every day?


frog blog

(This post was edited by fr0gm@n on Jul 13, 2008, 12:46 PM)


MLiebergot
Veteran


Jul 13, 2008, 1:18 PM

Post #2 of 9 (1457 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Convince me this plan is wrong [In reply to] Can't Post
Phillip, nothing wrong with going this route as log as you trust your equipment and setup.

There are many who work this way, our very own Mark Foley among them. I assisted as second shooter at a wedding last night, where the videographer works this way as well.
I prefer to work with both, but am starting to rely more on my audio recorders then in camera audio for the majority of my edit.
After all I use external recorders to record musicians and readings at ceremonies, and pretty much all of my audio at the reception is captured live to recorders.

The only place where I can't get around being comfortable is not monitoring the audio from a groom during a ceremony.
the funny thing about this is that the only ting that I can do is adjust the audio levels accordingly while the ceremony is going on. Once it starts if his audio cuts out for some reason, or he happens to turn it off accidentally before the service, then in most cases I can't do anything anyway.

So I could probably go all digital recorders myself, and have in some instances where wireless aren't allowed like you mentioned. And that came out great with no issues.

The only thing that I prefer to do at a reception regarding wireless is either mounting a wireless handheld on a PA stack for sync/backup audio to tape. Also sometimes I might take a feed from my R-44 (via RCA out) and send this to my camera for backup sync audio as well. In both instances, the audio is really only used for sync purposes during my edit.

Michael

Cameras: (3) Sony FX1, Canon HV20
Audio: Marantz PMD620, Edirol R44, ZoomH4N, ZoomH2, Sennhesier G2
Mics: Rode NT5, Rode NT3, Rode M3, Rode NTG2, Shure SM57, AT822
Software: Sony Vegas, Final Cut Studio
Computer: MAC BABY! MacPro, MacBook Pro


fr0gm@n
Veteran


Jul 13, 2008, 1:23 PM

Post #3 of 9 (1455 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Convince me this plan is wrong [In reply to] Can't Post
Cool....I thought it had some merit. Not sure if I am ready to give up on what has worked for 8 years but I am considering it. I have to figure out what I could get for my Samson wireless and how much more it would be to move up to a better solid state audio device.


Shouldn't TV's Discovery Channel be on a different station every day?


frog blog


MLiebergot
Veteran


Jul 13, 2008, 1:38 PM

Post #4 of 9 (1449 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Convince me this plan is wrong [In reply to] Can't Post
The only ting that yo have to remember, is to triple check your work beforehand.
the videographer I shot with last night, I also assisted on a shoot last month.
He forgot to turn n his iriver on the groom. Luckily he aslo had the officiant wired, so he got vows that he can work with.

That is my nightmare or nightmares.

Michael

Cameras: (3) Sony FX1, Canon HV20
Audio: Marantz PMD620, Edirol R44, ZoomH4N, ZoomH2, Sennhesier G2
Mics: Rode NT5, Rode NT3, Rode M3, Rode NTG2, Shure SM57, AT822
Software: Sony Vegas, Final Cut Studio
Computer: MAC BABY! MacPro, MacBook Pro


Bean
User

Jul 14, 2008, 7:58 PM

Post #5 of 9 (1399 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Convince me this plan is wrong [In reply to] Can't Post
there have been several times i thought the iriver was recording only to find it was in standby

i also have the marantz 620 and just ordered three olympus recorders, i really like the display on the marantz and it is much easier to verify it is recording.

i am also considering goinh to dedicated recorders instead of wireless. one advantage of wireless is to be able to hear any instructions the officiant wispers to the couple. another advantage is that all of the audio is mixed onsite so it is less postproduction.


MLiebergot
Veteran


Jul 15, 2008, 6:30 AM

Post #6 of 9 (1384 views)
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Re: [Bean] Convince me this plan is wrong [In reply to] Can't Post
Quote
i also have the marantz 620 and just ordered three olympus recorders, i really like the display on the marantz and it is much easier to verify it is recording.
Why did you order 3 Olympus recorders and not more PMD620's or even Edirols.
The Olympus recorders aren't going to give you the fidelity that the Marantz or Edirol type recorder will give you.

I guess the real question I should ask it which Olympus did you purchases?
The cheap mp3 voice recorder or the higher priced Olympus LS10?



Michael

Cameras: (3) Sony FX1, Canon HV20
Audio: Marantz PMD620, Edirol R44, ZoomH4N, ZoomH2, Sennhesier G2
Mics: Rode NT5, Rode NT3, Rode M3, Rode NTG2, Shure SM57, AT822
Software: Sony Vegas, Final Cut Studio
Computer: MAC BABY! MacPro, MacBook Pro


Bean
User

Jul 15, 2008, 6:46 AM

Post #7 of 9 (1381 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Convince me this plan is wrong [In reply to] Can't Post
i will mainly use the olympus for dialogue only, for the groom officiant and the scripture readings.

ordered two ds-30 and one ds-40, the specs and samples seem to be sufficient for voice recording. the marantz is used for music both at the ceremony and reception, it is larger than the olympus and harder to conceal.

i will see how well the olympus works to record from the sennheier 604 placed in front to the dj speakers, this is a backup to the marantz that is connected directly to the dj board.

the last visit to the eye doctor i thought he had a good sense of humor, he said the next time he saw me it would be for bifocals. turns out he was not kidding Crazy the iriver menus are getting more difficult to read


JC/DV
Veteran


Jul 16, 2008, 2:37 PM

Post #8 of 9 (1337 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Convince me this plan is wrong [In reply to] Can't Post
Philip, I've been working with iRivers and the H4 setup for a while now... in fact from last year till present. Only had 2 issues pop up and 1 was my fault. Once the groom iRiver just shut down (still can't get the booger to turn back on) BUT luckilly the minister's mic picked him up and the bride fairly decently so I was able to just use the minister's mic. I feel confident each and every time about my audio. As you experienced for yourself, it does free you up to concentrate on the shooting aspect.

I would recommend to keep the wireless units. I wish I had some camera mountable receivers because I would take my mic setup for the receptions that basically mic the DJ/band and ambient sounds that feed to the H4. I would if I could put a transmitter on the headphone out of the H4 and feed that to my camera............ maybe one day. The reason would be to easier sync the audio and have a failsafe backup. With the A1, you could use a shotgun mic for 1 XLR input and the other for the reception "feed".

Do what's right for you. I like my current system.

Jerome
JC/DV Productions - Website | Blog | Twitter | Facebook

Technology. It does wonders if you know how to use it.


Ron Priest
Veteran


Jul 17, 2008, 9:23 PM

Post #9 of 9 (1310 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Convince me this plan is wrong [In reply to] Can't Post
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Saturday we worked in a church that allows no wireless mics. We have plenty of other options ....
I can't comprehend a church telling me I couldn't use my equipment. The couple paid more for my services then they did the minister or the church! That's just asinine and shows their ignorance. All they need is the assurance from me that my wireless is not going to interfere with their system. And all I have to do to ensure that is to scan the frequencies on my receivers with their wireless mics transmitting to insure I'm not on the same frequency. Did they tell you in advance that you couldn't use your wireless mics, or did they wait until you got ready to set up? That's defiantly something that would totally "cook my goose" (as my dad use to say), especially without advanced warning. With the advance warning, I would inform the couple (or the parents that's flipping the bill) and have them get the matter settled with the church before the wedding day.

Now that I got that off my chest.... I have been recording my audio totally independent from my cameras for a year now and Philip, I wouldn't look back for a second. It's a great stress relief not to have to be concerned about my audio during the ceremony. And not having to worry about mounting a mic on the cam is a blessing. It gives me the freedom to move around handheld (or with my steady stick) during the precessional, then return to my tripod for the rest of the ceremony. It's just as good as having a dedicated sound engineer present without having to pay him.

But I couldn't do it without my wireless lavs on the groom and officiant. I will connect the 2 wireless lavs to the Edirol R-4 (4 channel recorder) along with a 3rd wireless which I put on the pulpit, unless the podium is on the same side of the church that I'm at with my tripod, then I'll run a wired mic from the podium to the R-4. I like to have the R-4 close enough so I can at least see the meters even though I'v totally gotten away from monitoring the R-4 during the ceremony or the reception. I just make sure the limiter is turned on and the hold switch is on and I'm good to go. I start the recorder about 20 or 30 minutes before the processional and stop it when the ceremony is finished. That gives me one continues audio timeline that I use to sync up my video. I will usually connect a 4th mic to the R4 for ambient audio but I still have the audio from my cams if I need to use it. The really nice thing about the R-4 is (besides the outstanding sound quality) is the fact that I have 4 recordings (i.e. 4 channels) all in sync from the get go. I really wouldn't care to have to sync up 4 separate iRivers in post. If I have a string quartet or any other special music maybe in the balcony or somewhere else, I'll connect to external mics (or a external stereo mic) to the Zoom H4.

I basically do the same thing at the reception, I'll acquire a stereo output from the DJ's soundboard (if he's smart enough to figure it out, 80% of them have no clue... it never ceases to amaze me, I have to show them where to plug up 2 RCA jacks to an output labeled "Record out". Let me ask, how freakin' hard is that?) and I'll connect 2 of my own mics for ambient to the other two R-4 inputs. I then start the recorder and I don't worry about my sound for the rest of the night! It's totally worrisome free! Awesome!! That gives me good clean sound for the announcement of the wedding party, the toasts, and all of the dancing. In post, I'll start the first dance out with all 4 inputs, then slowly fade out the ambient mics and all I have is the beautiful crystal clear audio of the music by itself. Then at the end of the song, I'll fade up the ambient audio for the crowd clapping. Why have to worry about having to endure 4, 5, or more iRivers are turned on and recording (and then sync all of them individually later in post) when you can turn on just one R-4 and sync 1 file with 4 channels of audio on the timeline at once?
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