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Home: Video University Forums: Audio For Video:
Edirol R4 Users Information

 
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MLiebergot
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Apr 14, 2007, 2:21 PM

Post #26 of 131 (1479 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Edirol R4 experience? [In reply to] Can't Post
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Oh, my bad. Okay I got the prices right now. Thanks. I'll be looking forward to hearing about the H2!! What kind of Mics are you going to use with those, or are you just going to use the built in mics? That's what I wondering how you would use them (the H2's) as backup audio. If I purchase the R-4 and allready have a mic on the groom and minister connected to the R-4 how would I slip a H2 in the grooms pocket without having to put a 2nd mic on him for the H2?
I would use an omni lav and plug it in via 1/8 mic input. I do this already with my Edirol R09.
The built in mics are good on these tye of recorders for readings and ambiant pickup. In some instances they also work very well on a mic stand recoding ensamble players, like woodwonds and string quartets. I also use my AT822 stereo mic plugged into the 1/8 mic input when needed.

Although the R4 would ealistically work better with quartet recoding, as I would have various mics (at least 2) fed into the R4 directly. Then take wireless feed from groom, and feed for readings. And send the wireless and readings to my camera via RCA Line out of the R4 to my camera. That would obviously have the need for at least 2 wireless setups however.

I am trying to get away from using wireless, but it's just too valuable to have. Really looking forward to 2009, when all our wireless systems will go bye bye. Crazy

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!


Ron Priest
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Jun 4, 2007, 10:58 AM

Post #27 of 131 (1420 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Edirol R4 experience? [In reply to] Can't Post
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I am trying to get away from using wireless, but it's just too valuable to have. Really looking forward to 2009, when all our wireless systems will go bye bye. Crazy

What do you mean?
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MLiebergot
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Jun 4, 2007, 11:52 AM

Post #28 of 131 (1413 views)
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I am trying to get away from using wireless, but it's just too valuable to have. Really looking forward to 2009, when all our wireless systems will go bye bye. Crazy

What do you mean?
Ron, that was meant to be sarcastic.
As a lot of us might not have an option, except for digital recorders.
Because, depending on what area of the country you are in, when the UHF signals are gobbled up in 2009, our UHF systems might be totally unusable. In my case, the DC area, it will most likely be totally unusable.

So hopefully by then encrypted wireless systems are usable and affordable to us. If not then I hope to at least have a good digital audio workflow in place to compensate.
The only thing that bothers me about using a recorder and go, is that I can't monitor what I am recording. And as such have to make sure I have backup and backup for my backup audio.

Either way HD audio sucks, so I would want to rely more on digital audio recorders for my main audio. But still need a good wireless signal to tape so I can sync in post accordingly.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!


Mark Foley
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Jun 4, 2007, 12:15 PM

Post #29 of 131 (1407 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Edirol R4 experience? [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Michael,
I guess we all have to wait and see when the frequencies get gobbled up and our current UHF units become worthless. The encrypted UHF wireless units, like the UM 700, are quite expensive. Hopefully there will be less expensive models...but I'm not holding my breath as it might be an excuse for manufactures to ratchet up prices.

I have become real confident in my standalone recording processes and I've been using less and less of the wireless tracks in my final edit...mostly being used as a synch tool. I will continue to use my old UHF...only as synch tool...maybe get a cheap VHF unit and spend my money on more H2s Sly

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Mark



Ron Priest
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Jun 5, 2007, 1:09 AM

Post #30 of 131 (1378 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] Edirol R4 experience? [In reply to] Can't Post
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I have become real confident in my standalone recording processes and I've been using less and less of the wireless tracks in my final edit...mostly being used as a synch tool. I will continue to use my old UHF...only as synch tool...maybe get a cheap VHF unit and spend my money on more H2s Sly

I'll be interested in hearing your report on the H2. I'll be ordering my R-4 before the end of the week. I'm wondering where I'm going to place it during a ceremony? Were do you set yours at Mark? If you have the external battery, along with a couple UHF receivers or more, it seems like it would take up a little room. I would like to hang it on the tripod so I could monitor it, but that kind of takes away from being portable doesn't it?
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Mark Foley
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Jun 5, 2007, 4:26 AM

Post #31 of 131 (1370 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Edirol R4 experience? [In reply to] Can't Post
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Were do you set yours at Mark?
It is placed close to the audio source I'm feeding it with. One thing you'll find out about the R4 is its ability to safely capture anything that is fed to it. I realize many want to be able to monitor their audio during the ceremony...but it performs so well, that is not a requirement for me... I always do a thorough sound check before the ceremony and lock the recorder down. As I've stated before it has one of the best limiter circuits I have ever seen in this class of recorder. It does an amazing job of calming down a possibly overdriven signal... Edirol has hit a home run with the unit and you'll be pleased that you have made that purchase....


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Mark



MLiebergot
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Jun 5, 2007, 10:08 AM

Post #32 of 131 (1356 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] Edirol R4 experience? [In reply to] Can't Post
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Were do you set yours at Mark?
It is placed close to the audio source I'm feeding it with. One thing you'll find out about the R4 is its ability to safely capture anything that is fed to it. I realize many want to be able to monitor their audio during the ceremony...but it performs so well, that is not a requirement for me... I always do a thorough sound check before the ceremony and lock the recorder down. As I've stated before it has one of the best limiter circuits I have ever seen in this class of recorder. It does an amazing job of calming down a possibly overdriven signal... Edirol has hit a home run with the unit and you'll be pleased that you have made that purchase....
Mark, how many wireless feeds are you normally feeding into the R4 during a ceremony?
I would gather at least 2 feeds (groom, musicians). And keep the R4 on podium with a hot wired mic in channel 4 for readings.
Then send a wireless (mainly for grooms audio) feed to your camera from the R4.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!


Ron Priest
Veteran


Jun 5, 2007, 10:09 AM

Post #33 of 131 (1356 views)
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Were do you set yours at Mark?
It is placed close to the audio source I'm feeding it with.
More specifically, what do you set the R-4 and associated external battery with verious mic receivers on. Do you have a portable table that you take to the shoot with you? I know it's been suggested to set it inside the podium. But what if you have no podium to set it in? How many mics to you use wireless, and how many wired mic do you use, and where do you place the wired mics?
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Mark Foley
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Jun 5, 2007, 10:31 AM

Post #34 of 131 (1355 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Edirol R4 experience? [In reply to] Can't Post
Currently, I still feed my (one) wireless directly to the cam....

As far as the R4, I hard wire any mics from soloists/musicians to it and place it close to the source as possible. If additional recorder is required, I'll use my Marantz 670....
I use the Microtrack to grab a feed from the sound board and pass through to one of my other cams....

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MLiebergot
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Jun 5, 2007, 10:48 AM

Post #35 of 131 (1353 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] Edirol R4 experience? [In reply to] Can't Post
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Currently, I still feed my (one) wireless directly to the cam....

As far as the R4, I hard wire any mics from soloists/musicians to it and place it close to the source as possible. If additional recorder is required, I'll use my Marantz 670....
I use the Microtrack to grab a feed from the sound board and pass through to one of my other cams....
So currently for ceremony work, you are using it primarilly for musicians and not vocal such as readings or vow capture.

So your current workflow is:
1. Wireless and IRiver on groom for vows
2. IRiver on officiant
3. Recorder at podium for readings
4. Microtrack to get feed from soundboard passed through to camera, if possible)
5. R-4 to record solists and musicians

Is this accurate.

Curently I am using H4 for solist and musicians recording, either with built in mics on mic stand or 2 mics plugged into ch1/ch2.
Then placing R09 at podium to record readings. And another R09 n the groom with a wireless for backup audio purposes.

What I would like to do is use get an R4 and place it either at podium to record readings and get wireless feed from groom or sound board and feed that into channel 2. Then either hard wire or wireless feed from solists (via handheld wireless mic) and send that to channel 3. Then send readings and vows to camera via wirelss for sync audio. So I would need either 2 or 3 wirelsss systems, depending on my feed setup.

This way I would have a complete mixed ceremony with no need for sync in post.

Another senario might be small recorder like H4/H2 (whenever this comes out) or R09 to record solists and just use the R4 to take readings (hard wired) and vows (wireless reception and wirelsless transmission to camera via RCA out). I prefer hard wired myself, which I could do nicely at a reception, but not possible at a ceremony.

I am real anxious to see what the H2 can do, whenever I get my hands on one. As the 3 element mic setup looks real intersting.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!


Mark Foley
Veteran


Jun 5, 2007, 11:06 AM

Post #36 of 131 (1352 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Edirol R4 experience? [In reply to] Can't Post
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So your current workflow is:
1. Wireless and IRiver on groom for vows
2. IRiver on officiant
3. Recorder at podium for readings
4. Microtrack to get feed from soundboard passed through to camera, if possible)
5. R-4 to record solists and musicians

Is this accurate.
Yes...

Quote
This way I would have a complete mixed ceremony with no need for sync in post.
I guess I never thought synching audio was that big of deal Tongue...just a few minutes of waveform matching... I just have never been a big fan of wireless transmitters (even though I'm an amateur radio operator Sly)....especially with the upcoming 2009 FCC UHF trainwreck.

If the H2 works as I hope it will (I acutally wanted one initially for my other job to record my briefings I do on the road to make it easier to do trip reports I have to provide to my corporate office), I plan to replace all iRivers so I will have 24 bit capture throughout.

I forgot one of Ron's other questions.... as far as mics, I use the industry standard Shure SM57s for all of my vocal/instrument capture...except when I have to mic a stand-up bass, then I will use an AT 825 turned sideways...so one capsule gets the intial soundwave off the strings and the other capsule grabs the low frequency soundwave as it starts to envelop into the room....and I will mess/play with the phasing in post...


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Mark



(This post was edited by Mark Foley on Jun 5, 2007, 11:12 AM)


Ron Priest
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Jun 5, 2007, 5:09 PM

Post #37 of 131 (1333 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] Edirol R4 experience? [In reply to] Can't Post
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Quote
So your current workflow is:
1. Wireless and IRiver on groom for vows
2. IRiver on officiant
3. Recorder at podium for readings
4. Microtrack to get feed from soundboard passed through to camera, if possible)
5. R-4 to record solists and musicians

Is this accurate.
Yes...

Quote
This way I would have a complete mixed ceremony with no need for sync in post.

I forgot one of Ron's other questions.... as far as mics, I use the industry standard Shure SM57s for all of my vocal/instrument capture...except when I have to mic a stand-up bass, then I will use an AT 825 turned sideways...so one capsule gets the intial soundwave off the strings and the other capsule grabs the low frequency soundwave as it starts to envelop into the room....and I will mess/play with the phasing in post...


Hmmmm, you don't connect the groom and officiant to the R-4?

What mic do you use to catch the ambient crowd noise at the reception with?

I just odered my R-4 from Keth at Sweetwater, should have it by Friday!!!! Cool
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Mark Foley
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Jun 5, 2007, 7:39 PM

Post #38 of 131 (1325 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Edirol R4 experience? [In reply to] Can't Post
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Hmmmm, you don't connect the groom and officiant to the R-4?
No...as I try to keep the setup as simple as possible....

I have a wireless from the groom to my cam...this is mostly used for audio synch purposes. I also have an iRiver on the groom and officiant. These will be replace soon by H2...completing my goal of all 24 bit capture...

Ambient mics typically are my AT 825...and sometimes I will borrow one of my son's Neuman TLM 103s...but I'm a bit paranoid using those mics as it would be too easy for some drunk to crash em' (they cost as much as my R4)


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Mark



Ron Priest
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Jun 5, 2007, 8:01 PM

Post #39 of 131 (1320 views)
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I have a wireless from the groom to my cam...this is mostly used for audio synch purposes. I also have an iRiver on the groom and officiant. These will be replace soon by H2...completing my goal of all 24 bit capture...


So... why not put the groom and officiant on the R4 via the wireless, and put a H2 or H4 on a mic stand near your instruments? Or are you wanting a total wireless audio setup?

What mic are you going to use with the H2 OIr I guess your plan is just to use the H2 internal mics? If so, how is that going to work?
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Mark Foley
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Jun 6, 2007, 3:56 AM

Post #40 of 131 (1310 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Edirol R4 experience? [In reply to] Can't Post
I'm not of fan of wireless setups at a ceremony... I'm confident in my recording setup process to not have to monitor the audio and I don't want to possibly lose anything to rf interference and finally, and this is truly the audio geek in me, I want the least amount of electronics involved in the signal path from the mic to recorder (everything adds self noise).

As far as the H2, I'll probably use GS or MT830 lavs for vocal capture....

_________________________
Mark



Ron Priest
Veteran


Jun 7, 2007, 3:22 PM

Post #41 of 131 (1298 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Edirol R4 Fix (for those fools like me who bought one at Jax) [In reply to] Can't Post
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Mark just so you know, there are 2 versions of this battery.
One is the MP3300, which is the link you provided, and looks great BTW.

The other is for the MP3400: ... Which lasts 40% longer than the MP3300.
Here's the link to Tekkeon's website for product information.

BTW, one questions with these batteries. Would you have to reverse the +/- on these as well.
I read on the tapersforum that with the adaptaplug connectors, you could just reverse the plug and it would reverse the polarity.
I am pretty electronically savy, but I don't mess with cutting and splicing connections. Crazy

I just purchased the MP3400 from TigerDirect.com here's the link:

Be aware, that the MP3400 supports Center Positive polarity only. Neither Tiger Direct nor Tekkeon mention this anywere in their advertisments. I was quite upset to get this device and then find it states in the manual that it only supports center positive polarity. The cabel and tips are keyed to prevent you from assembeling them backwords to make the center negative. The manual does tell you to contact support@tekkeon.com for assistance. I did, and I received this message:

Quote

The tips by default fit center positive. If you want to change the polarity, please reverse the pin orientation.

"Reversing the pin orientation" basically means reversing the pin orientation 180 degrees from its original center positive orientation. In order to do this, attach an adapter tip to output cable as usual; this will be in center positive orientation. Then unplug the adapter tip from the output cable, turn adapter tip 180 degrees, and insert adapter tip back into output cable. You may need to push the adapter tip in w/ a little more strength this time since the adapter tips are designed for center positive only, but it will work.

The reason for this is because the MP3300/MP3400 is sold mainly in the US; and virtually all electronic devices in the US are center positive. If consumers inadvertently connected a center negative connection, center positive devices that are connected will be damaged. Therefore, Tekkeon created the center-positive connection only design to prevent consumers who do not properly read the instruction manual from damaging the devices they plug into the MP3300/MP3400.

Please let me know if you have any other questions/concerns. Thanks.

Bobby


Of couse, if you blow up your equipment (which won't happen if you make sure you you have your polarity correctly set) but if it did then I'm sure Tekkeon wouldn't be legally responsible since you altered the supplied equpment to use is as a negative polarity device, and the manual specifically stated that it only supported center positive polarity devices. Their "work-around" will work. However, that doesn't make thier answer correct.

So... use with caution.
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(This post was edited by Ron Priest on Jun 7, 2007, 3:31 PM)


Mark Foley
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Jun 7, 2007, 3:29 PM

Post #42 of 131 (1293 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Edirol R4 Fix (for those fools like me who bought one at Jax) [In reply to] Can't Post
Ron,
Once you get the battery...shrink wrap the connector so you don't accidently hook it up wrong in the rush of the day.... :-)

_________________________
Mark



Ron Priest
Veteran


Jun 7, 2007, 3:34 PM

Post #43 of 131 (1289 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] Edirol R4 Fix (for those fools like me who bought one at Jax) [In reply to] Can't Post
Yep that's a good point Mark. Although I was an aircraft electrician in my former life, accidents like that can happen when under the gun. Or, my assistant could very well make the same mistake.

Now Im just waiting for my R-4. I ordered it from Sweetwater on Tuesday, and it has an estimated arrival date of Monday, June 11th. Go figure, Sweetwater is like less than 250 miles from me and it's going to take a week to get here? I could of rode my bicycle there in back in that amount of time. Oh well, what do I expect for free shipment? Crazy However, B&H advertises the R-4 as free shipment, and I usuallyh get stuff from them in 3 days. This is my first purchase from Sweetwater... first impressions....
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(This post was edited by Ron Priest on Jun 7, 2007, 3:40 PM)


Mark Foley
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Jun 7, 2007, 3:41 PM

Post #44 of 131 (1282 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Edirol R4 Fix (for those fools like me who bought one at Jax) [In reply to] Can't Post
It is hard to throw stones at Sweetwater when they ship for free. Keith and the gang are a pretty good bunch of folks to deal with. Probably some of the best customer service you'll find anywhere.

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Mark



Mark Foley
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Jun 7, 2007, 3:46 PM

Post #45 of 131 (1279 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] Edirol R4 Fix (for those fools like me who bought one at Jax) [In reply to] Can't Post
I'll bet it will arrive long before Monday...

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Mark



Ron Priest
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Jun 7, 2007, 3:47 PM

Post #46 of 131 (1279 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] Edirol R4 Fix (for those fools like me who bought one at Jax) [In reply to] Can't Post
Thanks Mark, that's reassuring. Besides... I don't have a bicycle Crazy
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Ron Priest
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Jun 7, 2007, 3:55 PM

Post #47 of 131 (1276 views)
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I'll bet it will arrive long before Monday...

Yep, I bet your right. Keith said it would get here by Friday. It seems that on the paper work, FedEx always shows arrival times 1 day later then they normallly arrive. I guess it makes them look good when the customer thinks they get things to ya a day faster.
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videobear
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Jun 7, 2007, 4:04 PM

Post #48 of 131 (1275 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Edirol R4 Fix (for those fools like me who bought one at Jax) [In reply to] Can't Post
Yeah...FedEx is so freakin' fast that on four separate occasions the driver had rung the doorbell, leaped into his truck, and driven off before someone could answer the door and sign for the shipment. We had to go pick it up in person.




Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions


Ron Priest
Veteran


Jun 7, 2007, 4:19 PM

Post #49 of 131 (1271 views)
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Re: [videobear] Edirol R4 Fix (for those fools like me who bought one at Jax) [In reply to] Can't Post
I know that's how fast my FedEx drive is. Everytime she comes to the door, she's afraid Sparky is going to tear her from limb to limb. Then I open the door and she remembers how samall Sparky is and I then have to peel her from the ceiling. (Sparky's bark is much bigger than his bite. He sands all of 6 inches off the floor, even from the 2nd story" Cool
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Ron Priest
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Jun 7, 2007, 5:23 PM

Post #50 of 131 (1265 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] Edirol R4 Fix (for those fools like me who bought one at Jax) [In reply to] Can't Post
Okay, here is an interesting observation. I understand that the Edirol R-4 takes 8 AA (1.5 Volt) batterys. So it makes since that the AC/DC power supply is a 9 Volt output. ( 1.5 * 8 = 12 VDC) so I guess the minimum is 9 volt and the max is 12 volt DC, and it's a negative polarity.

However, the Zoom H4 only takes 2 AA batterys (2 * 1.5 = 3 Volts DC) but the little symbol on the casing of the H4 indicates that it's a 9 VDC (negative polarity). This I don't understand. It's minimum is 3 VDC but it's maximum is 9 DC?
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