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Home: Video University Forums: Audio For Video:
Getting a feed from a sound system... your tips please

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RT Steele
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Apr 10, 2008, 1:49 PM

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Getting a feed from a sound system... your tips please	Can't Post

Plug a 1/4" jack into the REC OUT or MASTER OUT hole. That's all I know. Laugh

You guys ever count the various knobs and jacks on one of these things? I think it takes less gear to fire up a nuclear reactor.

So what's the secret to getting a reliable feed most of the time? Yeah, I know how to tweak my end of things but I need to get something out of one of these "holes" first. Sly

My problem is the DJ who only knows the basics to do his job. I work with a lot of franchise "kids" that just know enough to spin a tune and maybe get the mic to work if they're lucky - very few independants which really know their system because they actually bought the equipment.

A while back, after working with the same DJ dude twice with no success at tapping into his board (and he was clueless) I finally emailed the OWNER of the DJ service to simply ask which freaking hole to plug into. He said "EQ OUT". So, the next time I worked with that same DJ we looked and there was no such thing. Plenty of other "OUTS" but no words like EQ or EQUALIZER anywhere to be found. I even parked my ass on the floor and scanned the whole system twice.

So... for the past 6 months I've given up on these guys and just rely on mic'ing the PA stack. And the church sound people are even worse.

- RT

Mark Foley
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Apr 10, 2008, 2:03 PM

Post #2 of 35 (2263 views)
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Re: [RT Steele] Getting a feed from a sound system... your tips please [In reply to]	Can't Post

If the DJ has a "studio" feed..that is best as the feed will always remain constant to the recorder no matter what the rocket scientist at the mixer is doing....next is REC out...some/most will remain constant also. I will only take a DJ feed if he has a studio out and I've worked with him before. Just like when the sound at the church messes up and they point at the videographer, so will happen if something happens with the DJ and you're tethered to him :-)

_________________________
Mark

RT Steele
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Apr 10, 2008, 2:24 PM

Post #3 of 35 (2257 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] Getting a feed from a sound system... your tips please [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ok, adding another buzzword to the mix...

"STUDIO FEED"

I'll look for it but my problem seems to be these, "OUT" feeds aren't turned on or haven't been activated or something. I mean, you can't just plug a jack into them and the sound magically starts coming out. That's been my luck anyway.

Even the simple headphone jack (which I split with the DJ) has this mysterious ON/OFF switch sometimes.

- RT

Scott Brooks
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Apr 10, 2008, 2:34 PM

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Re: [Mark Foley] Getting a feed from a sound system... your tips please [In reply to]	Can't Post

Mark - is that the same as the Aux. out?
Scott Brooks

Mark Foley
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Apr 10, 2008, 2:48 PM

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Re: [Sparky] Getting a feed from a sound system... your tips please [In reply to]	Can't Post

It maybe...but I would only trust a feed that is labeled studio for it to be a constant voltage feed.

_________________________
Mark

Mark Foley
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Apr 10, 2008, 3:11 PM

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I mean, you can't just plug a jack into them and the sound magically starts coming out.

For every output on the back of the DJ board there will be a corresponding slider or pot on the main board (face) that has to be turned up. More than likely when you plugged in, they had it shut off/turned down.

_________________________
Mark

fr0gm@n
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Apr 10, 2008, 9:36 PM

Post #7 of 35 (2204 views)
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You can be plugged into the correct feed plug/hole but the DJ still has to send signals to it. Some DJs have told me they have to set a channel and feed it to the "hole". They will often isolate one feed to a slider and dedicate it to our feed and (hopefully) not touch it all night.

I worked with one idiot sound guy from a live band a few years back. I tested before the reception. I'm getting a nice feed and all sounds great on my crappy iRiver. Reception gets going, I go over and start the recording and go do my job secure in the fact I have a clean version from the band sound dude. Just when the band starts he mutes my channel and I recorded 3+ hours of quietness. I wanted to knock him silly.

Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog

RT Steele
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Apr 10, 2008, 10:23 PM

Post #8 of 35 (2198 views)
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You can be plugged into the correct feed plug/hole but the DJ still has to send signals to it.

Exactly. But most DJ's never have the need to do this so when I plug in, get nothing then look at them... they just shrug and pretend somebody called their name. Sly

I'm shooting about 25% success out of the headphone jack. Only once did the speeches run through this though (which is what I really want) and most of the time the DJ's mic is on running through an entirely different system I think.

Somebody suggested I go to a store that sells DJ equipment and badger a salesman with all these questions. I'm afraid to go though... I'll probably walk out with an armful of sound gear, a disco ball and a new profession. Unsure

- RT

fr0gm@n
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Apr 10, 2008, 10:34 PM

Post #9 of 35 (2196 views)
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Somebody suggested I go to a store that sells DJ equipment and badger a salesman with all these questions. I'm afraid to go though... I'll probably walk out with an armful of sound gear,

No that would be Mark and Michael doing that. They probably have more than most DJs already. Tongue

Quote

a disco ball and a new profession. Unsure

At least you would know how to send an output for the schmuk videographer at your first wedding....and would proabably be better than most DJs. Just think....you work for about 6 hours, pack your crap and go home with between $800-$2000 in your pocket....done and money in the bank. (those numbers are what DJ's get here.....and the $2000 guy...he is good and worth the money. He is one of my better friends in this biz. When I work with him I know a good feed will be provided and probably have cables run already in anticipation of us being there.)

Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog

Ron Priest
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Apr 10, 2008, 11:45 PM

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Now that I'm recording all of my audio via the Edirol R-4 four channel recorder, I'm always looking for, or asking the DJ for a stereo output. I tell him what I need is the red and white RCA Record output from the soundboard. Most of the time if the DJ has any sense at all, and especially if it is his equipment, he knows what I'm talking about. But the fact that we're looking for a Red and White RCA output helps him (or me) locate what we need. Sometimes we find the output but yes, we have turn it on or move the slider up to get a signal.

What has been help some is the fact that I will contact the DJ prior to the wedding day and inform him what I'll be looking for. That at least gives him some advance notice that I will be looking for the output and if he thinks about it, he will look in advance so he knows what I need. Try it, contact him/here before the event. Don't just email them, call them and get some initial communication going.

I don't usually have a lot of time to talk with the DJ when I first get to the reception venue. However, because I have already made contact with him/her, they are on their guard and are ready and willing to work with me.

The church is a different story. I normally have plenty of time before the ceremony starts to talk with the sound guy and get the feed and test it before the wedding starts.
___________________
Ron

Mark Foley
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Apr 11, 2008, 3:46 AM

Post #11 of 35 (2178 views)
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The only problem/concern I see Ron, (for RT's problem), is if he can't find a DJ smart enough to get a feed, he surely won't get one smart enough to know where to tap into the board to get a stereo feed when most systems are configured to mux down the output to mono (so it can be amplified and routed to the PA) Crazy

I use to call DJ's to arrange a feed...but so many times I got a lukewarm response - at best. Thats when I decided to got with my version of the PA capture inspired by your choice of mic (Rode M3).

For my music productions, however it is always a board feed. The big difference here is I work with an audio engineer who knows how things work Laugh

and I actually get a direct channel feed (before it is routed through any stages of the mixer board) so I can mix/eq the audio later. One of the things that got me excited about the R44 is its ability to be tethered to another unit to get 8 channels.....

_________________________
Mark

(This post was edited by Mark Foley on Apr 11, 2008, 3:52 AM)

Brackish
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Apr 11, 2008, 4:07 AM

Post #12 of 35 (2170 views)
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In Reply To

I use to call DJ's to arrange a feed...but so many times I got a lukewarm response - at best.

Same here. I got tired of dealing with DJs who didn't want me touching their equipment so I don't even bother anymore.

----------------------------------------------
"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

RT Steele
Veteran

Apr 11, 2008, 9:48 AM

Post #13 of 35 (2148 views)
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The only problem/concern I see Ron, (for RT's problem), is if he can't find a DJ smart enough to get a feed,

That's pretty much it. It isn't that they're stupid... they just aren't trained for this. Ron's got the right idea though... tell the DJ what to look for which is what I'm trying to pick up on here. And yes, I have tried contacting them beforehand but again, the guy that knows what to do isn't the DJ I'll be working with. And the boards I look at have more RCA jacks than I have time to read the labels for. They are a mix of both male and female connectors. Maybe I can narrow it down... are the RCA jacks I'm looking for "always" universally one or the other?

- RT

MLiebergot
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Apr 11, 2008, 10:56 AM

Post #14 of 35 (2142 views)
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Rick if you're getting a feed they should pretty much always be female RCAs from my experience.

This is one of the reasons, like Mark, that I have gotten away from taking a board feed, as you never know what the guy on the other end will be doing to your signal. For weddings an formal events, I just mic the PA stacks (to recorder and camera) and be done with it.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

RT Steele
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Apr 11, 2008, 11:47 AM

Post #15 of 35 (2140 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Getting a feed from a sound system... your tips please [In reply to]	Can't Post

I just mic the PA stacks (to recorder and camera) and be done with it.

This is what I do now - to cam and an iRiver (which sounds like crap BTW). But you're still at the mercy of any DJ with nimble fingers.

Again, I'm mainly interested in getting clean speeches off his floating mic. Natural sound is no problem and at worst case, any tune he spins I can dub in there if I have to.

I have 2 Senn G2 units (2 txmitters, 2 recvers, 1 butt plug) and have wondered if I could somehow put the shoe "on the other foot" and have the guests use my gear to speak, somehow feeding it into his PA stack (maybe a splitter feed to my cam). But then again... I'm back to the DJ not knowing what to do once I got my end all patched together to make this possible. Plus, who the hell has the time for this?

But you're right... the PA stack is usually a sure thing. I've said it before... if nothing is coming out of a speaker then everybody has a problem and it's quite obvious it's not my fault. I'm going to try the H2 for this when it comes.

- RT

Scott Brooks
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Apr 11, 2008, 12:41 PM

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That's what I'm going to use mine for. I use to use a wireless mic, but I would prefer to capture entire songs and don't care to turn the camera on and just let it run.
Scott Brooks

RT Steele
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Apr 11, 2008, 1:31 PM

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In Reply To

That's what I'm going to use mine for. I use to use a wireless mic, but I would prefer to capture entire songs and don't care to turn the camera on and just let it run.

I hope the Zoom H2 can take the noise pressure from a speaker even with all the tweaks. Reading mixed feedback on this here. Right now I use an e604 to my wireless to my cam. I also splt the e604 with an iRiver (which sucks). I'm hoping to use the H2 for this instead. (I always want 2 sources on that speaker for a backup).

- RT

MLiebergot
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Apr 11, 2008, 1:39 PM

Post #18 of 35 (2122 views)
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Rick the H2 has decent, not great pre amps in it.
As long as you have the proper external pre amp set on it, then you should be good. If you don't then the audio won't clip like normal recorders, but rather produce an annoying chirping sound to your audio.
I had this happen to me at a Barmitzvah recently, where the DJ had audio playing before the intros or pre intro music was on. Of course the music was not at the same levels that he would be using during the night. I did a sound check before the intro and intro dance music and set the H2 on the Medium setting. When the DJ stated playing dance music before the intros, I decided to check the H2, which of course was producing the horrible chirping sound.
I switched the H2 to the Low pre amp setting and set levels appropriately, and it was fine for the rest of the night.
This was the first time that I ever had to use the low setting on the H2 (as it was blaringly loud), but it worked fine for me.

Just make sure that you check the unit at some pint during the night, especially if the levels change drastically.

In Reply To

That's what I'm going to use mine for. I use to use a wireless mic, but I would prefer to capture entire songs and don't care to turn the camera on and just let it run.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

Scott Brooks
Veteran

Apr 11, 2008, 3:07 PM

Post #19 of 35 (2115 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Getting a feed from a sound system... your tips please [In reply to]	Can't Post

One thing I really like about the H2 is that you monitor the levels and that it will flash if you're peaking. Of course you have to set the menu so that it will monitor.

Another great thing ... then menu. Even I can work my way through it. iRiver ... not so lucky.
Scott Brooks

RT Steele
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Apr 11, 2008, 3:19 PM

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In Reply To

One thing I really like about the H2 is that you monitor the levels and that it will flash if you're peaking.

Hey, that's pretty cool. So if I got this thing say, 10" from a DJ's speaker, can I see it flash from across the dance floor if I look for it? But that would mean the rear mics need to be facing it so the display is visible I guess. I ordered mine yesterday, comes with a 4gb card. Got another transcend 8gb for the reception. Have to tell the UPS guy to hide it though... Mrs. Steele has that "look" in her eye again with all the DELL crap I just bought. Unimpressed

Can't wait to get some 96kbps mp3 recording under my belt. Laugh

- RT

Mark Foley
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Apr 11, 2008, 3:40 PM

Post #21 of 35 (2109 views)
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can I see it flash from across the dance floor if I look for it

nope...unfortunately....you better be right on it

_________________________
Mark

Scott Brooks
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Apr 11, 2008, 4:27 PM

Post #22 of 35 (2104 views)
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I find my DJs have about four levels. We start out with our soft dinner music, crank it up just a little for the first formal dances, up another notch for open dances, and then blast away for the hip-hop/funk when all that's left is the younger crowd. I'm almost always gone before we get to number 4. (Thank you. Angelic

)

My schedule is pretty full starting the last weekend of this month, but the first video won't be till the end of May. I'm looking forward to not only attempting to do better with audio ... but also using new cameras.
Scott Brooks

MLiebergot
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Apr 11, 2008, 4:40 PM

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Rick, the re are small led lights on both sides of the H2. So you can see the light on and flashing no matter which way the mic is facing.
That's how I knew when my H2 was clipping at the Barmitzvah.

In Reply To

One thing I really like about the H2 is that you monitor the levels and that it will flash if you're peaking.

Can't wait to get some 96kbps mp3 recording under my belt. Laugh

- RT

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

Brackish
Veteran

Apr 11, 2008, 7:53 PM

Post #24 of 35 (2085 views)
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In Reply To

I find my DJs have about four levels.

Same four levels here. Smile

Have you made a decision on what new cams yet?

----------------------------------------------
"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Scott Brooks
Veteran

Apr 11, 2008, 9:27 PM

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Re: [Brackish] Getting a feed from a sound system... your tips please [In reply to]	Can't Post

Only one so far ... Z7. I wanted good low light performance and the ability to use CF cards. It's supposed to be delivered Tuesday and I have a few days to evaluate it. If I don't like it I'll ship it back.

I had someone wanting my other camera(s) and I didn't figure waiting till the end of the year to sell them was going to be that big of a plus.

I'm also considering looking at doing more small business/corporate type of work. We'll see how that goes.
Scott Brooks

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