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Home: Video University Forums: Audio For Video:
H2 is on the way

 

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fr0gm@n
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Oct 15, 2007, 4:45 PM

Post #1 of 28 (3055 views)
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H2 is on the way Can't Post

After borrowing an H4 Zoom this Saturday for some special music at a wedding I decided to take the plunge with an H2. The audio was awesome with the built in mics on the H4. Instrument mics would make it even better I am sure. When Mrs. Frogman heard the audio she was even impressed and said we should have one. I will use mainly for musicians or board feed or to mic a speaker stack. I will still use the iRivers for readers and redundancy.

BTW....I got mine here locally at Full Compass. We are lucky that they are right here in our community. There price was $171 (I think...I know it was under $180). That is better than I have found online anywhere else. If you want one for that price I can put you in contact with the sales rep. She said there were 4 in stock and they were flying off the shelf....Hmmmmmm....wonder why?

I'm sure I will have plenty of questions for you audio geeks at some point but I will make a point to get familiar with the H2 sticky at the top of the forum.



Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog


Mark Foley
Veteran


Oct 16, 2007, 7:23 AM

Post #2 of 28 (3025 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post

Before you use the H2 at a gig to mic the PA stack, test at home using your home stereo speakers, if available. Most likely you'll have to set the mic gain at low and play with the record level to find a good sweet spot.

I'm finding the H2 is not the stellar performer I would have hoped for as the pre-amp circuit is...well what can you expect for this price range. It does however do a great job a 4 channel ambient capture device and will only see that service with me....

_________________________
Mark



Brackish
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Oct 16, 2007, 8:25 AM

Post #3 of 28 (3021 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

I'm finding the H2 is not the stellar performer I would have hoped for as the pre-amp circuit is...


Is hissy? Is buzzy? Has an electrical activity noise?


----------------------------------------------
I'll probably bawl at your wedding. Why not? It's the most important day of your life and you chose me to record it. What an honor! I absolutely love what I do with a passion!! I have had the privilege of working with a lot of really amazing couples, many of which have become fiends since their Most Special Day.


Mark Foley
Veteran


Oct 16, 2007, 8:29 AM

Post #4 of 28 (3020 views)
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Re: [Brackish] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post

pretty high noise floor....

_________________________
Mark



MLiebergot
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Oct 16, 2007, 11:51 AM

Post #5 of 28 (3012 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually the best advice I have seen on micing loud perfomances (like PA stack) is to indeed have the H2 set to (L low), have the input at least to 100, as for some reason Zoom put the input level before the preamp, and as a result can cause additional noise (so at least record at 100 and you'll be good), and NOT to have any limiter or compressor set in the menu.

I recorded a very loud band this weekend, and overall I was very happy with the results. I would have loved to use my R4 here, but wasn't informed that there would be a band playing. So I used my R09 and go a board out feed (vocals/bass in one channel and guitar, horns, drums in another).

As I said though, I used these settings for my H2 (level:106, Preamp:L, Limiter/Cpmressor:OFF) and was pretty happy with it. Especially for not using an external mic, as it was very easy to setup and go.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!


Brackish
Veteran


Oct 16, 2007, 7:06 PM

Post #6 of 28 (2994 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
pretty high noise floor....


And what does it sound like? Hiss?


----------------------------------------------
I'll probably bawl at your wedding. Why not? It's the most important day of your life and you chose me to record it. What an honor! I absolutely love what I do with a passion!! I have had the privilege of working with a lot of really amazing couples, many of which have become fiends since their Most Special Day.


MoonLitNite
User


Oct 17, 2007, 1:24 AM

Post #7 of 28 (2980 views)
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Re: [Brackish] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi all,

I'd guess the noise floor is somewhere in the vicinity of the Edirol R-09 (similar pricing equates to similar pre-amps). Here's how the R-09 stacks up against better units, vis-a-vis noise floor (hiss):

http://www.avisoft.com/test/noisefloors.pdf

Good luck, Michael
Happy Trails to you... until we meet again

(This post was edited by MoonLitNite on Oct 17, 2007, 1:25 AM)


Brackish
Veteran


Oct 17, 2007, 5:46 AM

Post #8 of 28 (2962 views)
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Re: [MoonLitNite] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm thinking the H2 might be worse than the R09 just
because we haven't heard of the R09 having
a high noise floor, like is being said about the H2.


----------------------------------------------
I'll probably bawl at your wedding. Why not? It's the most important day of your life and you chose me to record it. What an honor! I absolutely love what I do with a passion!! I have had the privilege of working with a lot of really amazing couples, many of which have become fiends since their Most Special Day.


Mark Foley
Veteran


Oct 17, 2007, 8:13 AM

Post #9 of 28 (2955 views)
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Re: [Brackish] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I'm thinking the H2 might be worse than the R09

I believe it is...but that is to be expected given the cost of the unit. Besides, even with a high noise floor, even the most primitive NR programs can easily remove it...and the new izotope RX can make it disappear altogether without no tell-tale artifacts. I bet the Oade Brothers in Thompson Ga. could easily mod the H2 to be as quiet as any recorder in the sub 1K price range. The other problem with the H2 is what Michael pointed out...input level control is before the pre-amp stage..this severley limits you on lattitude with the signal coming into the recorder. With that said however, it does work great placed on a mic stand and placed to record in 4 channel mode...adds great depth to your other recording captures.


_________________________
Mark



Brackish
Veteran


Oct 17, 2007, 8:45 AM

Post #10 of 28 (2951 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Quote
The other problem with the H2 is ...input level control is before the pre-amp stage..this severley limits you on lattitude with the signal coming into the recorder.


In other words, a line level signal coming in can easily clip it?


----------------------------------------------
I'll probably bawl at your wedding. Why not? It's the most important day of your life and you chose me to record it. What an honor! I absolutely love what I do with a passion!! I have had the privilege of working with a lot of really amazing couples, many of which have become fiends since their Most Special Day.


Mark Foley
Veteran


Oct 17, 2007, 8:51 AM

Post #11 of 28 (2949 views)
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Re: [Brackish] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post

yes....

_________________________
Mark



Tim A
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Oct 17, 2007, 9:26 AM

Post #12 of 28 (2946 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Quote
it does work great placed on a mic stand and placed to record in 4 channel mode...adds great depth to your other recording captures.



Hey Mark, can you give a simple explanation on how you do this. Do you blend all four tracks in the L & R channels or are you doing a 5.1 mix? What are you using for your main recording, say for a live band?

Thanks
Tim

__________________________________________________________________



MLiebergot
Veteran


Oct 17, 2007, 9:36 AM

Post #13 of 28 (2944 views)
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Re: [Brackish] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To

Quote
The other problem with the H2 is ...input level control is before the pre-amp stage..this severley limits you on lattitude with the signal coming into the recorder.


In other words, a line level signal coming in can easily clip it?

As Mark said, yes line in can be a problem. Which is why I use my R09 for line in recording. Both Zoom units (H4/H2) were really designed to be more of a mic recorder and not so much of a line input recorder. The H4 is suitable for line recording as well as internal/external mic recording. But one just has to look at the H2 (which looks like a mic) to realize what this unit was intended for, quick down and dirty field recording. Good for lav work if needed, and very good for live recital/band recording in either 2 or 4 channel mic configuration.

Though the H2 has some flaws, for the price (sub $200) it's going to be hard to beat. After all the iRivers that many love had many drawbacks but people got very acceptable perfomance out of them. No unit (H4, H2, R09, Microtrack, FR2) is perfect, but most will yield very acceptable results when used properly and to their limits.

So I say forget about little issues with units (sync, and yes, even hiss) as they, like video color correction, can be fixed in post rather easily.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!


Mark Foley
Veteran


Oct 17, 2007, 9:42 AM

Post #14 of 28 (2944 views)
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Re: [Tim A] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post

All of my reception audio is in 5.1 surround. The main capture whether DJ or live band capture is done with an Edirol R4. THe H2 supplements the front L/R information and the obviously the rear surround tracks. I will add the on board camera audio if needed...some surround information is matrixed using Voxengo stereo touch VST plug-in (free) and LFE information is handled by Voxengo BMS

_________________________
Mark



Tim A
User

Oct 17, 2007, 11:35 AM

Post #15 of 28 (2926 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry Mark for all the questions, but reception audio is a major problem for me and I want to get it solved ASAP.

What mics do you use with the R4, or are you going to the sound board?

__________________________________________________________________



Mark Foley
Veteran


Oct 17, 2007, 12:12 PM

Post #16 of 28 (2920 views)
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Re: [Tim A] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post

I have, in the past used a combination of a feed from the board and live mics...but recently, after I found some pretty decent intrument mics, I now mic the PA stack with a Rode M3 to capture vocals...if they have any low frequency-type audio being sent to the PA, I'll use an additional M3 to mic the bass section of the PA. I use a combination of Rode M3s and Shure SM-57s to mic the additonal instruments and drums. If needed, I'll use an aditional recorder (marantz 670) for further instrumentation. I don't concern myself with mixing all of the signals there...but focus on getting a clean/unclipped recording of each microphone. I will mix all of the tracks in post.

In post, it is pretty straightforward process...except I shadow each individual track with several duplicates. This not only makes the final mix more robust, but I add different variances of eq and reverb to the duplicates to give it the "live" feel. It is not unusual for me to have 25-30 (and more) tracks for the reception audio.

_________________________
Mark



Tim A
User

Oct 17, 2007, 12:28 PM

Post #17 of 28 (2916 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow! How do you find the time to get all that set up? I run out of time just setting up 2 mics and an iriver.

__________________________________________________________________



Mark Foley
Veteran


Oct 17, 2007, 12:36 PM

Post #18 of 28 (2914 views)
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Re: [Tim A] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post

I prep for the gig by attaching the mics/cords to the individual mic stands so I can set them up rather quickly...then it is just a matter of connecting the mic cords to the R4 and hit record. I typcially set the input levels of the R4 to "12 oclock" and fine tune the palcement of the mic from the source so the levels never exceed -6db and I'm done. Many have asked me why I invested so much in the R4...it is because it is so easy to record/has so much lattitude on input levels and has a superb limiter that it is about close to set and forget as possible.....

_________________________
Mark



Brackish
Veteran


Oct 18, 2007, 8:02 AM

Post #19 of 28 (2868 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
As Mark said, yes line in can be a problem. Which is why I use my R09 for line in recording.

Yeah, I've heard the R09 can take a strong line-in voltage and not clip. Actually, the Sony VX2000 can take a good strong line-in, no problem - I do this regularly.


----------------------------------------------
I'll probably bawl at your wedding. Why not? It's the most important day of your life and you chose me to record it. What an honor! I absolutely love what I do with a passion!! I have had the privilege of working with a lot of really amazing couples, many of which have become fiends since their Most Special Day.


Mark Foley
Veteran


Oct 18, 2007, 8:39 AM

Post #20 of 28 (2866 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post

Philip,
Has your H2 arrived?

I hope my comments about the H2 don't discourage you...in all fairness, it a capable recorder when used correctly...just not a "do it all" recorder nor should it be at its fairly inexpensive price. I bet there are those who think $200 is allot of money for a audio recorder...HA....
If you want to get serious, get a Cantar-X...only about $15,000


_________________________
Mark



fr0gm@n
Veteran


Oct 18, 2007, 10:16 AM

Post #21 of 28 (2862 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually I got it the day I posted. Full Compass is local here and my sales rep lives across the street so she brought it home. I am not discouraged because I consider the source of the negative comments. Coming from you, the guy with 25 layers of audio for a reception I understand completely. Cool

I know it's not the be all and end all audio device. But after hearing what the H4 did for a string quartet and some opera singers last Saturday I know it will be a huge step up from my iRivers. I have no delusions of doing 5.1 surround and 25 layers of audio for a reception but at least now I know I can have a fighting chance for decent audio from a PA stack if needed and a much easier process of pulling a DJ feed when I have the chance. It will be a big improvement.

It may not sound like a Hollywood movie or classical concert like yours but I am not trying to get that crazy. I just want great video with solid audio. Till now I have had great video with fairly solid audio. This will help alot. At somepoint a R09 may be in the cards as a second device but for now this will do me pretty good. The iRivers (all 4 of them) still have life and a job to do and they will do it well. The are great for mic'ing a readers podium and for backup at the ceremony.

As far as that Cantar thing....looks like it should be an add on accessory to the new Red Camera.

That is one whacked out cam! and pricey too!





Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog


Mark Foley
Veteran


Oct 18, 2007, 10:30 AM

Post #22 of 28 (2861 views)
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Quote
I have no delusions of doing 5.1 surround and 25 layers of audio for a reception

I have to admit is sounds more scary than it is...actually is it pretty easy to do and something I have considered doing as a presentation for one of the video conferences...but I expect since I'm not a big name in the business, I probably wouldn't get accepted...Unimpressed


_________________________
Mark



fr0gm@n
Veteran


Oct 18, 2007, 10:43 AM

Post #23 of 28 (2857 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post

Mark....you don't have to be a big name, you just have to have a good topic that will help videographers and you do. Submit it next year...you may be surprised.

I remember at video 06 seeing some presentations by people that were completely unknowns to me. I went to their seminars and thought I could do a better presentation. I remember one presentation that had some good information in it but it was just boring and lots of the stuff the person was saying was stuff we should think of anyway.

Not every speaker is an EventDV25 person or an award winner. Remember last year....there was some guy that was a photographer that was mixing some basic video into his photo DVDs he was selling customers. He basically downplayed the video aspect and called it a nice little addition to the incredible photos. I agree that the 2 could be combined into some nice presentations but he didn't impress me.

If you did a presentation I would be there in a heart beat. The audio sessions are usually pretty well attended but most of the time they are done by audio experts that just talk hardware and equipment and not what to do in post with all the audio that "equipment" captured. I don't recall seeing any sessions like that before.

Tim is always looking for topics that will make us all better and audio post production is a big one that gets very little "love" at the conference.

Don't sell yourself short....it doesn't hurt to submit an outline....you never know.



Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog


Brackish
Veteran


Oct 18, 2007, 7:40 PM

Post #24 of 28 (2834 views)
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I have considered doing as a presentation for one of the video conferences...but I expect since I'm not a big name in the business, I probably wouldn't get accepted...


Put out an instructional DVD - those are big around here.


----------------------------------------------
I'll probably bawl at your wedding. Why not? It's the most important day of your life and you chose me to record it. What an honor! I absolutely love what I do with a passion!! I have had the privilege of working with a lot of really amazing couples, many of which have become fiends since their Most Special Day.


Mark Foley
Veteran


Oct 19, 2007, 7:47 AM

Post #25 of 28 (2812 views)
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Re: [Brackish] H2 is on the way [In reply to] Can't Post

I have considered that also....but I may just do what I'm doing now...providing information here for all to share....

_________________________
Mark


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