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Home: Video University Forums: Audio For Video:
H4 sync issue

people9300
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Aug 31, 2007, 9:32 AM

Post #1 of 20 (1525 views)
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H4 sync issue	Can't Post

i recorded audio for a ceremony at 320 MP3 setting. i brought it into my computer and exported it as 48k (from quicktime) like i do with all mp3's before i imported into Final Cut. When i lined up the viedo and audio (from the H4) it kept losing sync, any suggestions? im trying to avoid recording directly as 48K on the H4 for space.

Mark Foley
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Aug 31, 2007, 10:00 AM

Post #2 of 20 (1519 views)
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Re: [people9300] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

Whenever you record to another device that is not slaved/linked to the camcorder, there will be sync issues as the two sampling clocks (between the devices) are probably running at different speeds. Just wait for pauses in the audio and cut/sync....

FYI... If you're going through the trouble of of recording to another device...especially one that has much better record capability, always try to record at the highest fidelity possible. SD cards are rather cheap nowadays... get the biggest one you can jam into the recorder and move away from mp3, although just ok for simple vocal capture, it lacks the latitude to adequately capture more complex music...etc....

_________________________
Mark

MLiebergot
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Aug 31, 2007, 11:15 AM

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Re: [Mark Foley] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

I ahve to agree with Mark here as well.
If you have a recorder like the R09, H4, Microtrack, H2, then why record to a lower inferior format or bitrate like MP3. Get a bigger card and at elast record at the saem bit rate 16/48 as what the recorder is recording at. This will solve some of your sync problems right away, not all but some. Converting to the higher rate after capture is of for fidelity wise, but you are using software to try to approximate what the proper length and speed of the track to be.
This will never be as accurate as recording at the proper bitrate from the start.

And besides you are losing valuable audio information by recording to a lower compressed format.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

chucksav
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Aug 31, 2007, 11:47 AM

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Re: [people9300] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

From numerous postings I have read around the web, this is a universal issue with the the H4 (and probably the new H2). I have seen figures of upto 2 or 3 seconds per hour (but no indication of whether too long or too short). On the other hand, I have experienced no sync issues with recordings of 3 to 4 hrs. with my Edirol R-1 or M-Audio Microtrack whether recording as mp3 or wav.

Mark Foley
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Aug 31, 2007, 12:16 PM

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Re: [chucksav] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

I have seen figures of upto 2 or 3 seconds per hour

Maybe it is just me, bit I fail to see what is the big issue over sync...especially only 2 or 3 seconds per hour....it can be fixed it so easily in post...

_________________________
Mark

MLiebergot
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Aug 31, 2007, 12:18 PM

Post #6 of 20 (1493 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Quote

I have seen figures of upto 2 or 3 seconds per hour

Maybe it is just me, bit I fail to see what is the big issue over sync...especially only 2 or 3 seconds per hour....it can be fixed it so easily in post...

I agree. While it is more work, it is not complicated and rather quick to do so.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

Mark Foley
Veteran

Aug 31, 2007, 12:26 PM

Post #7 of 20 (1491 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

Michael,
I would be overjoyed if my Marnatz 670 was only off sync by 2 seconds. Cool

However, the thing is so rock solid in construction and operation (it feel off a balcony and dropped about 8 feet once and never missed a beat) I continue to use it to capture ambient sound at the reception....

_________________________
Mark

RT Steele
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Aug 31, 2007, 6:48 PM

Post #8 of 20 (1478 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

Maybe it is just me, bit I fail to see what is the big issue over sync...

It's not just you. There seems to be lot of concern over this. I can't imagine recording anything for 3 hours and not being able to find a "lull" somewhere to make a cut and just move the damn thing over. Laugh

I'm actually amazed my iRivers get as close as they do.

- RT

Brackish
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Aug 31, 2007, 8:26 PM

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RT Steele
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Aug 31, 2007, 9:06 PM

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Re: [Brackish] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

I use a clapboard technique to sync picture and sound.

Ain't that hard on the guests that have had 12 cups of coffee? Laugh

My sync almost always involves only dialog. I just match the visual waveform up and tweak it a bit. I used to use an NLE a long time ago that would "unsync" everything by about 2 seconds when it was muxing the DVD. Instant Japanese movie effect. Laugh

- RT

Brackish
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Aug 31, 2007, 11:12 PM

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RT Steele
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Sep 1, 2007, 12:53 PM

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Re: [Brackish] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

Probably, but it saves me a lot of time in post.

Yeah, a nice unique sound can really help.

Most of my gigs have 5 or 6 "lung hackers" and at least 3 screaming toddlers. I use them sometimes If I can tell them apart. Laugh

- RT

people9300
User

Sep 3, 2007, 10:39 AM

Post #13 of 20 (1436 views)
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Re: [RT Steele] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

the reason i like the mp3 setting is because if i have 3 weddings back to back and i cant get to my studio to dump the card, i can fit many hours on it, with 48k, i cant fit 3 weddings over the weekend on my card (i believe i have a 2gig card, which i think is the biggest the h4 will take) so mp3 is strictly for convenience, the quality is virtually unnoticeable at 320. i guess the h4 has sync issiues no matter what setting you record in, so i did make the wrong decision, should have went with the edirol. as far as re syncing 8 times during a ceremony, that is one of the most annoying things id want to deal, to me that sucks - one more extra thing to waste time doing during editing. thanks to all for your insight. Edirol here i come!

MLiebergot
Veteran

Sep 3, 2007, 10:56 AM

Post #14 of 20 (1433 views)
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Re: [people9300] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

Sorry Edirol has nothing to do with it.
I have owned the Microtrack and currently own Edirol R09, Zoom H4, Zoom H2, and Edirol R4 (Pro 4-track recorder).

The problem you will always have when recording at different but rates is sync. Even if you convert to the proper bit rate in post, the damage is already done.
Combine that, with the fact that each recorder has different internal clocks, so there will always e a difference. Teh only real way to get perfect sync is to use your recorder as an audio slave for your audio.

I would suggest that you at least record at the same bit rate as your video camera 16/48 WAV. This will help at least prevent any major problems in post. You will most likely get some audio drift, but it's easy to fix in post using teh audio waveforms to do so.

If your concern is multiple events back to back, the drop the bones and pickup additional SD (2GB. Maybe 4GB will work, I have never tried myself. BTW the H2 will run 8GB SDHC cards I have found out.) cards for your H4.
They are cheap enough and should be as much a business investment as tape is for your camera.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

Ron Priest
Veteran

Sep 4, 2007, 10:59 AM

Post #15 of 20 (1411 views)
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Re: [people9300] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

as far as re syncing 8 times during a ceremony, that is one of the most annoying things id want to deal, to me that sucks - one more extra thing to waste time doing during editing. thanks to all for your insight. Edirol here i come!

I thought I had already put my 2 cents in this thread... maybe not, but anyway Adam, do you understand what Michael was speaking of as far as syncing your audio on the timeline. You shouldn't have to "resync" it 8 times (unless your using 8 different files) but just once. In Premiere Pro I use the stretch tool. I line the audio clip up to the begging of my video/audio clip from my camcorder. Then I go to the end of the H4's audio clip and find a specific point toward the end of the clip where there is a loud sharp noise that is evident on the audio wave form on the timeline. I then Clop off the end of the clip at that point. I then to to that sound on the time line in my camera's audio wave form on the time line, and mark it. I then use my stretch the H4 audio clip to the point I have marked. For me, it always ends up being stretched 100.05 % I can tell this by using my clip speed control and seeing what percentage it changed the file. Now that I now what the speed change needs to be, I now simply always automatically change my H4 speed to 100.05% and it's always perfectly in sync. When I drop another H4 wav file on my timeline, I simple just change the speed to it etc..

Now it may make a difference if I used a different recording rate, but I almost always use the highest WAV setting the H4 will use.
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Mark Foley
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Sep 4, 2007, 11:15 AM

Post #16 of 20 (1406 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ron,
We are in the process of moving audio-related threads and this one got tagged to be moved (that is why it is now here)...more will follow....

_________________________
Mark

brucecleveland
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Sep 4, 2007, 6:23 PM

Post #17 of 20 (1397 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

Mark I don't think I have ever seen this with any of my Irivers. Is this just a zoom issue?

Bruce Cleveland
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."

brucecleveland
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Sep 4, 2007, 6:25 PM

Post #18 of 20 (1396 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

Mark I don't think I have ever seen this with any of my Irivers. Is this just a zoom issue?

Bruce Cleveland
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."

Mark Foley
Veteran

Sep 5, 2007, 3:10 AM

Post #19 of 20 (1363 views)
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Re: [brucecleveland] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

Not really...My Marantz 670 doesn't keep perfect sync....

If your iRivers keep good sync, then be happy- as many report theirs don't. It is not a matter of fault of the equipment.

_________________________
Mark

ivey
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Sep 5, 2007, 10:12 AM

Post #20 of 20 (1351 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] H4 sync issue [In reply to]	Can't Post

I don't have a problem with my irivers either. One of them loses one frame every 10 minutes. But since I know that, it's a simple fix. The others seem to stay in sync.

---Lisa---

Macs, cause they work