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Home: Video University Forums: Audio For Video:
Placement of the R44 during weddings

 
 


Adam Forgione
Enthusiast

Nov 9, 2008, 6:25 AM

Post #1 of 13 (1958 views)
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Placement of the R44 during weddings Can't Post
ive realized i havent thought about where the best place is to put the r44. where is everyone putting it. id like to elevated some how.
Adam Forgione
Pennylane Productions


MLiebergot
Veteran


Nov 9, 2008, 8:05 AM

Post #2 of 13 (1950 views)
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Re: [people9300] Placement of the R44 during weddings [In reply to] Can't Post
Adam, I used to clamp the R-44 to my mic stand using a music sheet holder and it worked well.
But now I prefer to place the R-44 in my audio bag at the base of my mic stand, with cables coming out of the bag and clipped to the mic stand.

The reason is that I have 3 mics attached to one mic stand, as I aid earlier in a post (Rode M3 mic PA woofer CH1) Rode M3 mic PA tweeter CH2) (Stereo AT822 mic facing away from PA stack towards crowd CH3/4).

The R-44 in the bag gives some nice weight at the base of the mic stand to prevent tipping over.

If I decide to take a board feed, then I will place the R-44 by the DJ, take RCA feeds to Ch1/2 and then face a Rode M3 mic towards the crowd on a mic stand and feed that into CH3.

I don't mind having the R-44 ut of my site, because I am taking a wireless fed form the RCA Line Out and sending this to my cmarea for backup/sync/monitoring audio. So I always know what is being recorded to my R-44 and can adjust accordingly if needed.

Michael

Cameras: (3) Sony FX1, Canon HV20
Audio: Marantz PMD620, Edirol R44, ZoomH4N, ZoomH2, Sennhesier G2
Mics: Rode NT5, Rode NT3, Rode M3, Rode NTG2, Shure SM57, AT822
Software: Sony Vegas, Final Cut Studio
Computer: MAC BABY! MacPro, MacBook Pro


Adam Forgione
Enthusiast

Nov 10, 2008, 7:02 AM

Post #3 of 13 (1911 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Placement of the R44 during weddings [In reply to] Can't Post
i may start doing that, but first id love to take advantage of the onboard mics for ambience. id have to have the unit not be on the floor or in a bag so the mics can breathe. wondering if anyone else is doing that and if so , how, otherwise i might just use a mic for ambience.
Adam Forgione
Pennylane Productions


Mark Foley
Veteran


Nov 10, 2008, 7:06 AM

Post #4 of 13 (1909 views)
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Re: [people9300] Placement of the R44 during weddings [In reply to] Can't Post
As great as the R44 is for recording, the onbaord mics simply suck...or should I say SUCK. Can be used for a last minute setup...but if you can, use an external mic to capture ambient...
_________________________
Mark






Adam Forgione
Enthusiast

Nov 10, 2008, 7:10 AM

Post #5 of 13 (1906 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] Placement of the R44 during weddings [In reply to] Can't Post
i was surprised how god they sounded actually, especially in the church but im sure your right. i guess ill be setting up more mics, ouch!
Adam Forgione
Pennylane Productions


Mark Foley
Veteran


Nov 10, 2008, 7:40 AM

Post #6 of 13 (1904 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] Placement of the R44 during weddings [In reply to] Can't Post
My recording studio background requires the bar to be a little higher than most, I'm afraid.

I didn't realize the difference in the onboard mics until the last wedding where I intentionally used both the internal mics to record the pipe organ and used an AT 825 mic to also record the organ (internal mic/analog setting). The difference in sound quality was an eye opener.
_________________________
Mark






fr0gm@n
Veteran


Nov 10, 2008, 4:09 PM

Post #7 of 13 (1887 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Placement of the R44 during weddings [In reply to] Can't Post
Michael, Adam asked about using the R44 for weddings not receptions. Based on a workflow we would use your description of how to use it would be for micing the reception. The R44 is next on my list of audio tools but I am still wondering the best way it would be used in a ceremony scenario. Your setup sounds great for a PA stack at the reception.

I am still months ( at minimum ) from getting one since our season is done till next year but if the money is there we may be in position to get one next years. Just curious on how to use it at a ceremony....I will sit and mull it over all winter long. Wink


Shouldn't TV's Discovery Channel be on a different station every day?


frog blog


Mark Foley
Veteran


Nov 10, 2008, 4:50 PM

Post #8 of 13 (1883 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Placement of the R44 during weddings [In reply to] Can't Post
I'm not Michael, but can I give you my use(s)?


At the ceremony, it is probably not as crucial to use as the reception as you are probably already capturing audio via wireless to the camera...plus maybe an iRiver or similar device for readers and such. However, I have found it very useful when recording church organs...especially pipe organs with their broad and thunderous dynamic range. I uee two or three mics placed strategically to capture the sound (at different points in the venue) and feed it all to the R44.

There are probably other scenarios it could be used...but the bottom line...the recorder allow you a wide lattitude of the pre-amp settings coupled with a very agressive limiter circuit...which results in exponetially better success rate of capture. Ever since I started using the R4/R44, I nevver had a bad recording....
.
_________________________
Mark






MLiebergot
Veteran


Nov 10, 2008, 5:00 PM

Post #9 of 13 (1881 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Placement of the R44 during weddings [In reply to] Can't Post
If you have 3 wireless setups you could, pace the R-44 under the lectern and run one mic (lav most likely) up on the lectern and feed that into CH3.
The take wireless feed from groom and feed that into CH1.
Take wireless feed from musicians into CH2.

Then use line out in the R-44 to send a wireless feed to your camera for backup sync audio.

Wireless is really the only viable option for micing the ceremony with the R-44. As it's highly unlikely that you will be able to run cable across the alter or such as needed.

If you have 4 wireless setups then you could send 2 wireless feeds from teh R-44 to your camera (mixed down CH1/2 to camera CH1 and CH3 lectern to CH2 on your cameras CH2).

Michael

Cameras: (3) Sony FX1, Canon HV20
Audio: Marantz PMD620, Edirol R44, ZoomH4N, ZoomH2, Sennhesier G2
Mics: Rode NT5, Rode NT3, Rode M3, Rode NTG2, Shure SM57, AT822
Software: Sony Vegas, Final Cut Studio
Computer: MAC BABY! MacPro, MacBook Pro


fr0gm@n
Veteran


Nov 10, 2008, 5:21 PM

Post #10 of 13 (1877 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Placement of the R44 during weddings [In reply to] Can't Post
Guess for the ceremony it isn't as big a bang for the buck. I only have 2 wireless systems and not knowing what is happening with the wireless spectrum I don't plan to buy any more. I put one wireless on the minister and one on the groom. I love my H2 for micing the string quartet or organ. It just works pretty good. For the reception it could come in handy though. Right now my H2 is for organ/strings, my iRivers are for the podium reader and sometimes taped on the kneeler for a backup. I also use the iRiver with an external as an extra backup somewhere just in case depending on the scenario. If there is a board feed from the church the R09 goes on that. A little secret I learned from someone was to put an iRiver plugged into an assisted listening device from the church. Once you get a good signal set it down and usually you get very little interference. It is a great backup to the minister and everything mic'ed in the church.

To me it would be nice to plug the 2 wireless into the R44, set it and forget it. The concept of not needing to monitor audio is nice and frees me to concentrate more on the shooting. You may be monitoring the signal from a wireless feed from the R44 but realistically if anything goes wrong you may not be able to fix it depending on where you place it.

It's still on my list but between my R09, H2 and 4 iRivers and 2 wireless we do reasonably well...better than just about anyone else in our market. Wink I do want to make my audio so good no one can compare to it....all in time....we are closer than we used to be.


Shouldn't TV's Discovery Channel be on a different station every day?


frog blog


Mark Foley
Veteran


Nov 11, 2008, 12:47 AM

Post #11 of 13 (1857 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Placement of the R44 during weddings [In reply to] Can't Post
I agree Philip with you...for the ceremony, your current process has everything covered nicely and having the R44 or something similar would only be icing. However, the reception is a whole another story. In addition, your corporate work may be able to take advantage of its capability as JeffE found out with his ErieKids production.

Once again for the reception, there is no equal...especially if you do many live band gigs as I seem to be having lately. As Michael as pointed out earlier, even simple DJ setups w/PA are a breeze. You'll be amazed at how easy/quickly you can setup and how succesful the recording is. Definately should be on your wish list.
_________________________
Mark






(This post was edited by Mark Foley on Nov 11, 2008, 12:47 AM)


Adam Forgione
Enthusiast

Nov 17, 2008, 6:57 AM

Post #12 of 13 (1795 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] Placement of the R44 during weddings [In reply to] Can't Post
the only thing i wish i had a grip on was being able to set up the input properly for different situations. i guess ill have to start memorizing a good starting point for this mic in this channel micing this source, etc.
for example using ch1 for grooms mic then later on using ch1 for band speaker, the setting will have to be changed and its not like i can sit there a tweak it from the beginning, ill be 50 feet away filming the moment hoping i set it right.

on another note, i was told to ride the input lower than id like, so for instance i should ride the average signal between -20 and -10, because the preamps are so clean if i need to boost it in my NLE, it wouldnt be noisy at all. how do you guys do it, were do you like to ride the signal. im assuming i should keep the output (smaller innner nob) at unity gain ort as close to it as possible.
Adam Forgione
Pennylane Productions


Mark Foley
Veteran


Nov 17, 2008, 3:59 PM

Post #13 of 13 (1760 views)
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Re: [people9300] Placement of the R44 during weddings [In reply to] Can't Post
There is no set process I use as each recording is different...try to get a sound check if all possible....



At least you didn't have to deal what I went through Saturday night...the couple hired a big name band to play at the reception. The bastids wouldn't even give me a sound check...as there road manager stated they wanted to do their traditional concert process...walk in and start playing. I had to set my R44S at -8 and watch to see if the overload flag illuminated during their first song. Lucky for me, I got a clean recording...

...however, the band for all its touting of how good they were...SUCKED....
_________________________
Mark