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Home: Video University Forums: Audio For Video:
Suggestions for Interview Lavalier Mic

 

 


extremalis
User

Jun 11, 2008, 12:40 PM

Post #1 of 11 (1220 views)
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Suggestions for Interview Lavalier Mic Can't Post

Hi guys,

thanks in advance for the excellent advice being dished out right here. I am always lurking around to learn something new from the experts here.

I own a Sony FX1, and current using the mic from Giant Squid mostly to record wedding vows on the iRivers. Recently trying to break into the corporate arena, and somehow thought that I should get better audio quality and am prepared to invest a little into a better directional/omni mic.

Usage: Indoor Field Interviews / used also to record draft of voice-overs
Camera: Sony FX1

Any advise will be greatly appreciated.


Cheers
extremalis


JeffErie
Veteran


Jun 11, 2008, 8:51 PM

Post #2 of 11 (1167 views)
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Re: [extremalis] Suggestions for Interview Lavalier Mic [In reply to] Can't Post

Why a omni...how about a hyper on a boom pole. Cleaner, more directional sound.

I'd recommend the Oktava Mk012 from Soundroom.com


Jeff Natalie - President, ErieKIDS
ErieKIDS Blog
"In the Middle" debuts November 13, 2008


extremalis
User

Jun 18, 2008, 12:10 PM

Post #3 of 11 (868 views)
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Re: [JeffErie] Suggestions for Interview Lavalier Mic [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, we are usually a one-man setup most of the time, do not have luxury of audio operator. Thats why this is our option of operations. Will check out the one u reccomended. Thanks!!


MLiebergot
Veteran


Jun 18, 2008, 12:42 PM

Post #4 of 11 (866 views)
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Re: [extremalis] Suggestions for Interview Lavalier Mic [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, just to let you know, there are many who are one man operations, like myself who can capture great audio while shooting alone. I have many posts on this subject and audio. A good lav mic alone will not take your audio to the next level.

First off if you want to start doing corporate gigs, then ditch the consumer iRiver and invest in wireless, or better audio recorder(s) and decent lavs.

For the corporate gigs you are going to want to monitor and adjust your audio accordingly.

Now since you have FX1's as do we, you could add a Beachtek or Juicedlink type XLR boxes and run multiple wireless, wireless/shotgun mic, or multiple hard wired feeds into your camera and monitor and adjust accordingly.

Or you could go the route of purchasing a Edirol R-44 ($899) (great 4- track recorder), and record up to 4 channels of audio to removable SD media and at the same time send a wireless (or hard wired) feed to you camera for monitor/sync/backup audio. You can also have the R-44 right next to you and monitor and adjust accordingly while you are shooting.

All of these are good viable options.

But I would highly recommend not trying to use iRivers for corporate work. For one, they don't produce good audio, as the audio is compressed MP3 and not uncompressed WAV/AIIF quality audio.
Also, they are consumer grade quality and can and most likely will fail you at some point. They don't have removable media and need proprietary software to upload to your system. Not to mention that they have poor manual adjustment controls, and need to go into a menu to adjust recording volume.

Yes they were affordable, but for what you can charge for corporate work, you really should upgrade your audio setup, s one job could pay for this alone.

You can even upgrade recorders to a Marantz PMD620, Edirol R09 for $399. Wireless setup Sennheiser is the most affordable recommendation for around $600.

I don't want to sound like I am preaching, but I guess I am to a point, as I have done many many times here. Don't neglect your audio in your video, as it will show eventually, when compared to someone who makes an effort to capture great video and audio. It is an investment at first, but will outlast your video cameras by 10 fold in the long run. And it can be done affordably as well.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!


extremalis
User

Jun 19, 2008, 6:46 AM

Post #5 of 11 (837 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Suggestions for Interview Lavalier Mic [In reply to] Can't Post

Tks for the advice, as i turn full time for just over 2 weeks, investing in the right audio gear is in the plans. Thus, I am checking out on the gears to invest in. I am looking with the following requirements:

1) Wired mics for a start, as I mainly do interview style, and I don't want a wireless to have one additional potential failure point.

2) External recorders might not be really neccesary at this point, as I prefer to hook them right into the FX-1. Will bear in mind the beachtek and stuff that could really be good and useful.

Really appreciate the stuff I have been learning in VU family, and I find myself especially lacking in the audio collection, post production which I can really pick up alot more, since audio is one key & essential difference between stills and video.


cheers
extremalis


Mark Foley
Veteran


Jun 19, 2008, 7:07 AM

Post #6 of 11 (836 views)
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Re: [extremalis] Suggestions for Interview Lavalier Mic [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Quote
External recorders might not be really neccesary at this point, as I prefer to hook them right into the FX-1

For anyone new to high-end audio capture, I would suggest going to the camera. However, be aware that any uadio recorded to the camera is somewhat limited as it is compressed and only only captured at 16 bit depth...whereas most (except iRiver) record uncompressed and 24 bit....





_________________________
Mark



Bryan G
User


Jun 22, 2008, 6:25 PM

Post #7 of 11 (759 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Suggestions for Interview Lavalier Mic [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Well, just to let you know, there are many who are one man operations, like myself who can capture great audio while shooting alone. I have many posts on this subject and audio. A good lav mic alone will not take your audio to the next level.

First off if you want to start doing corporate gigs, then ditch the consumer iRiver and invest in wireless, or better audio recorder(s) and decent lavs.

For the corporate gigs you are going to want to monitor and adjust your audio accordingly.

Now since you have FX1's as do we, you could add a Beachtek or Juicedlink type XLR boxes and run multiple wireless, wireless/shotgun mic, or multiple hard wired feeds into your camera and monitor and adjust accordingly.

Or you could go the route of purchasing a Edirol R-44 ($899) (great 4- track recorder), and record up to 4 channels of audio to removable SD media and at the same time send a wireless (or hard wired) feed to you camera for monitor/sync/backup audio. You can also have the R-44 right next to you and monitor and adjust accordingly while you are shooting.

All of these are good viable options.

But I would highly recommend not trying to use iRivers for corporate work. For one, they don't produce good audio, as the audio is compressed MP3 and not uncompressed WAV/AIIF quality audio.
Also, they are consumer grade quality and can and most likely will fail you at some point. They don't have removable media and need proprietary software to upload to your system. Not to mention that they have poor manual adjustment controls, and need to go into a menu to adjust recording volume.

Yes they were affordable, but for what you can charge for corporate work, you really should upgrade your audio setup, s one job could pay for this alone.

You can even upgrade recorders to a Marantz PMD620, Edirol R09 for $399. Wireless setup Sennheiser is the most affordable recommendation for around $600.

I don't want to sound like I am preaching, but I guess I am to a point, as I have done many many times here. Don't neglect your audio in your video, as it will show eventually, when compared to someone who makes an effort to capture great video and audio. It is an investment at first, but will outlast your video cameras by 10 fold in the long run. And it can be done affordably as well. ---------------------- I am sure folk appreciate the time you put in to commenting. I am wanting to produce some video promotional material for our small business (and if that is successful, maybe sell some DVDs too). I also have an interest in classical piano and every two months or so attend recitals by some quite amazing pianists. I have been given permission to start videotaping these provided I give a copy to the pianist and venue. So I don't want to stuff up and I am a newbiee!! Gulp. Help!! So in the quantum leap from an amateur hand-held videographer (Panasonic GS-NV180) to someone masquerading as a "video-heavy", what should I do. My arsenal comprises the above camera, a Sony Mini Disk, a Pro 44 XLR mic, a laptop with AUDACITY loaded and a little Behringer Sound mixer that attaches to the laptop via USB. This works well but is MESSY and I don't think messiness will work well at the piano recitals. I am wondering if the Edirol R44 you mentioned might be a good thing as it is an audio recorder and so eliminates two devices (the mixer and the USB interface) and lots of cables. It also eliminates the whirring sound of motors etc. I take your point about getting things right from the beginning and I am prepared to spend the money. I suppose my questions are: a) Does the Edirol produce better sound than i) the H4 ii) and Mini Disk? The mini disk is pretty good but the H4 which I have heard so much about might be MP3? b) I think you are saying that you can feed audio back to the camera from the Edirol wirelessly - ie it has a transmitter. Is that correct? DO you ever get drop outs? d) Are most good cameras ( I am thinking of buying the Panasonic DVX100) capable of accepting wireless signals or do you need to attach a receiving device? c) Can track marks be made on the Edirol and H4? The Mini Disk does this and it is a very handy feature. d) Can Edirol audio be converted into MP3? e) Do you need to be a sound engineer to be able to operate the Edirol? f) I am proposing to attach my Pro 44 mic to the underside of the grand piano (a $150,000 Steinway) with blu-tak. But is this really the best way to do it or in your experience would it be better to have a mic on a boom stand? Once I cure my basic ignorance and get some of the basic understanding-blocks in place I can start asking better questions! And sorry for asking so many. Really hope you can help. Thank you.


--------------------------------------
Many thanks for your help.....

BRYAN FROM DOWN-UNDER

There are precious few Einsteins
among us. Most brilliance arises
from ordinary people working
together in extraordinary ways
- Roger von Oech


Bryan G
User


Jun 22, 2008, 6:29 PM

Post #8 of 11 (755 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Suggestions for Interview Lavalier Mic [In reply to] Can't Post

I am sure folk appreciate the time you put in to commenting.

I am wanting to produce some video promotional material for our small business (and if that is successful, maybe sell some DVDs too). I also have an interest in classical piano and every two months or so attend recitals by some quite amazing pianists. I have been given permission to start videotaping these provided I give a copy to the pianist and venue.

So I don't want to stuff up and I am a newbiee!! Gulp. Help!! So in the quantum leap from an amateur hand-held videographer (Panasonic GS-NV180) to someone masquerading as a "video-heavy", what should I do.
My arsenal comprises the above camera, a Sony Mini Disk, a Pro 44 XLR mic, a laptop with AUDACITY loaded and a little Behringer Sound mixer that attaches to the laptop via USB. This works well but is MESSY and I don't think messiness will work well at the piano recitals.

I am wondering if the Edirol R44 you mentioned might be a good thing as it is an audio recorder and so eliminates two devices (the mixer and the USB interface) and lots of cables. It also eliminates the whirring sound of motors etc. I take your point about getting things right from the beginning and I am prepared to spend the money.

I suppose my questions are: a) Does the Edirol produce better sound than i) the H4 ii) and Mini Disk? The mini disk is pretty good but the H4 which I have heard so much about might be MP3? b) I think you are saying that you can feed audio back to the camera from the Edirol wirelessly - ie it has a transmitter. Is that correct? DO you ever get drop outs? d) Are most good cameras ( I am thinking of buying the Panasonic DVX100) capable of accepting wireless signals or do you need to attach a receiving device? c) Can track marks be made on the Edirol and H4? The Mini Disk does this and it is a very handy feature. d) Can Edirol audio be converted into MP3? e) Do you need to be a sound engineer to be able to operate the Edirol? f) I am proposing to attach my Pro 44 mic to the underside of the grand piano (a $150,000 Steinway) with blu-tak. But is this really the best way to do it or in your experience would it be better to have a mic on a boom stand? Once I cure my basic ignorance and get some of the basic understanding-blocks in place I can start asking better questions! And sorry for asking so many. Really hope you can help. Thank you.

--------------------------------------
Many thanks for your help.....

BRYAN FROM DOWN-UNDER

There are precious few Einsteins
among us. Most brilliance arises
from ordinary people working
together in extraordinary ways
- Roger von Oech


MLiebergot
Veteran


Jun 22, 2008, 7:46 PM

Post #9 of 11 (748 views)
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Re: [Bryan G] Suggestions for Interview Lavalier Mic [In reply to] Can't Post

Bryan let me answer your questions as best that I can, below.


Quote
I am wondering if the Edirol R44 you mentioned might be a good thing as it is an audio recorder and so eliminates two devices (the mixer and the USB interface) and lots of cables. It also eliminates the whirring sound of motors etc.

The answer is yes to all of the above. I tried using a mixer originally in the early stages of developing a better audio capture method, than just wireless mics. but the mixer was too hard to manage and shoot and monitor and capture my audio. It would work if I had a dedicated sound man with me, or was strictly in a studio environment where I control when we start and stop, but that wasn't the case. Using a recorder like the R-4 originally for me and now the R-44 eliminates the need of a mixer and lets me mix and record at the same time, which is a huge timesaver for me in the field. The R-44 is a professional grade mixer besides a recorder, as it had world class limiters and very very quiet pre amps. Also it is very smal and since it doesn't have a hard drive like my old R-4 did, there are no moving parts and the weight and form factor is smaller.


Quote
I suppose my questions are: a) Does the Edirol produce better sound than i) the H4 ii) and Mini Disk? The mini disk is pretty good but the H4 which I have heard so much about might be MP3?

Yes and yes again. The R-44 has better circuitry than the Zoom products, better pre amps, better limiters, and better interface. Always record at least the same audio speed as your camera which would be WAV 16/48. This will eliminate any sync problems in post. The exception to this will be cheap units like the Zooms H4/H4 as they use cheap crystals from China, which are unpredictable and will or most likely will not hold sync speed. While this can be fixed in post from my experiences, I woudl rather go with a Marantz PMD620, Edirol R09 or R-44 as they have always held sync for me in post. Even my old Microtrack did as well.



Quote
b) I think you are saying that you can feed audio back to the camera from the Edirol wirelessly - ie it has a transmitter. Is that correct? DO you ever get drop outs? d) Are most good cameras ( I am thinking of buying the Panasonic DVX100) capable of accepting wireless signals or do you need to attach a receiving device?

The R-44 has 2 L/R "RCA Line Out" ports on it. So I can send a mixed won signal of CH1/2 and or CH3/4 to my camera via wireless. I haven't had any real problems with d op outs, but they can happen from time to time. With proper setup, like frequency scanning at the venue, and proper setting up of your wireless, you should be able to avoid most problems. Most problems are really user error before the shoot. The Panny camera you are getting should be able to run wireless fine as it already has balanced XLR ports on it. If your camera doesn't have XLRs, like my Sony FX1s, you can always get an XLR adapter box like that form Beachtek or Juicedlink.



Quote
e) Do you need to be a sound engineer to be able to operate the Edirol?

While it does help to have audio knowledge, the R-44 is rather simple to operate. Liek with anything, I recommend learning your equiptment indie and out, read the manual and field test. But it really is easy to operate.



Quote
(f) I am proposing to attach my Pro 44 mic to the underside of the grand piano (a $150,000 Steinway) with blu-tak. But is this really the best way to do it or in your experience would it be better to have a mic on a boom stand?

You can boom your mic over the piano, or believe it or not one of the best places to pace your mic is inside the piano itself. If the piano lid is open, you can simply clamp a mic to the piano itself or boom a mic inside of it.


I hope this helps answer some of your questions.
Perhaps someone like Mark Foley can expand further on some of your questions as well.


Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!


Bryan G
User


Jun 22, 2008, 8:07 PM

Post #10 of 11 (747 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Suggestions for Interview Lavalier Mic [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Michael,

Thanks so much for your reply. I look forward to digesting this information fully after I have taken my daughter to school (we are in Australia!!). But before I dash off before you go to bed, do good cameras like the DVX100 have what they call "Pro Audio" anyway - and record in quality as good as from the Edirol (assuming a good mic) thus vitiating teh need for a sound recorder full stop?

Thanks so much for your help.
Cheers, Bryan

--------------------------------------
Many thanks for your help.....

BRYAN FROM DOWN-UNDER

There are precious few Einsteins
among us. Most brilliance arises
from ordinary people working
together in extraordinary ways
- Roger von Oech


MLiebergot
Veteran


Jun 22, 2008, 8:44 PM

Post #11 of 11 (742 views)
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Re: [Bryan G] Suggestions for Interview Lavalier Mic [In reply to] Can't Post

Well for starters, you will NEVER get good sounding audio using an oboard mic, weather it be built in or shotgun mic.
The reason is that in order to get good audio, you need to have your mic element close to the source, which you can't do with onboard audio.
So the solution is to get the audio off your camera, this is where recorders like the R-44 or even small recorders like the PMD620 or R09 come into play.

Of course for onbaord camera audio there is always wireless, which is a great low setup potion as well.
Now as far as camera audio goes the DVX100 will gave good audio captured tot ape, as a lot of SD camera do. The only problem with recording audio to camera is that most camera pre amps are noise, and add noise to your signal.
Panny and Canon even, have some decent audio, while Sony is notoriously poor and noisy.

If you are recoding to HDV cameras like the Sony Z1/Z7/FX1, Cano A1 etc, then you are better off recoding your audio off camera, except for sync purposes, as HDV audio is very compressed and not even in the same ball park of quality as uncompressed off camera audio is.

I personally send a wireless feed to my FX1 cameras, only for sync/monitor/backup audio purposes. Whether thats from my R-44, or from a wireless/wireless handheld to camera, while using my PMD620/R09/H2 recorders off camera to sync in post.
I don't always use my R-44, so I might use my small recorders (depends on my setup needs and restrictions), but am using it more and more.


In Reply To
Hi Michael,

Thanks so much for your reply. I look forward to digesting this information fully after I have taken my daughter to school (we are in Australia!!). But before I dash off before you go to bed, do good cameras like the DVX100 have what they call "Pro Audio" anyway - and record in quality as good as from the Edirol (assuming a good mic) thus vitiating teh need for a sound recorder full stop?

Thanks so much for your help.
Cheers, Bryan


Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!