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Home: Video University Forums: Audio For Video:
Time to learn something

fr0gm@n
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Feb 6, 2008, 3:59 PM

Post #1 of 16 (1331 views)
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Time to learn something	Can't Post

OK all you audio geeks/gurus. I have this question I have been planning to ask and have a few moments to do it today. I have my audio meters displayed on the playback of my NLE. What is the correct levels to let the meters bounce to. I always thought (not being an audio geek) that as long as they bouncing meters don't nail the far right and stay in the red the audio is ok.

I am realizing this is probably not ok. Now don't go telling me 0db this and -?db that. I don't completely understand all the numbers of levels....lets deal with colors here. My meters and most NLE meters have the white, the yellow and the red. Lets learn in terms of colors so it will make more sense to me. Cool

Where should my peaks land? In the red, in the yellow or almost yellow?

Where should my normal type audio land? In the red, in the yellow, almost yellow? If in the white, how far up the white scale should I be looking for?

The reason I am asking all this, other than I really should know it, is because sometimes I play a DVD back on my computer and I will get a buzz in the audio when loud peaks occur in the audio. These are usually in the upper yellow range or lower red range. I try to make sure nothing hits the upper red limit....I know that is bad. Wink

If you play these DVDs on normal TVs the audio sounds fine.

The other reason I am asking this is because everytime I put a DVD in my player or any other player I always have to turn the volume way down compared to TV watching levels. I am I editing and hearing my levels up too high?

I have recently been taking my final audio streams and just setting them to about 80% on the timeline for safety but it is still pretty loud on the DVD.

Hopefully this is a question that others may benefit from as well. No I don't normalize the audio as I don't have that tool at my disposal. I try to just keep an eye on things all the way through the edit.
frog blog

MLiebergot
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Feb 6, 2008, 4:40 PM

Post #2 of 16 (1327 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Time to learn something [In reply to]	Can't Post

Do not let your audio get into the red 0db.
The reason being that unlike analog audio, where you have headway before distortion, digital audio like for a DVD, once your audio hits that ceiling it will do one of two things, completely drop out or feedback as buzz.

No offense, but you really should know how to read your audio meter in your NLE. I can't judge what white/yellow/red would be in db terms, because each NLE has a slightly different meter. Except for red which is a no no 0db.

I try to keep my audio around -6db (in the yellow). I find that this give same a nice balance from being too low to too loud.

Also, this way I have a nice pad for when I am layering my audio.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

(This post was edited by MLiebergot on Feb 6, 2008, 4:49 PM)

fr0gm@n
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Feb 6, 2008, 5:12 PM

Post #3 of 16 (1315 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Time to learn something [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for the information. It is the kind of stuff I was looking for. I checked the display properties in Edius. There are actually 4 colors and you can customize what setting each color starts at. Currently my settings are as follows

Red 0db
Orange over -3db
Yellow over -6db
White everything else.

I should aim to keep everything peaking in the yellow range...correct?

Man I wish you and/or Foley would have been at Video08. I wanted to sit and talk audio with you for a few minutes. I have some questions about audio inner workings that I was hoping to sit and chat with you about. I don't want to become a full blown audio geek but there are some technical things that when I learn them should help me understand more about what is going on and improve my quality...just because I would be smarter. They are the kind of questions I am looking for visual answers to so they would be hard to ask here since you can't draw me a bunch of pics.

I know why you didn't make it and I envy the new child...none here. Enjoy the time with the little one...it is more important than audio and video anyday. Wink

frog blog

MLiebergot
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Feb 6, 2008, 5:16 PM

Post #4 of 16 (1314 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Time to learn something [In reply to]	Can't Post

Aw, I'm blushing. I was actually missed. Wink

You are correct. Try to keep most of your main vocal audio around -6 db, and you max audio around (loud music, cheering and such) -3 db max for impact.

But also remember, there are times that you would want your audio to be lower than -6 db, like a whisper for example. Your ears will know what's right when you are listening to your final mix.

All in all, follow these general rules and you should be fine. Smile

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

fr0gm@n
Veteran

Feb 6, 2008, 5:24 PM

Post #5 of 16 (1313 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Time to learn something [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks....I got some editing habits to modify and keep an eye on. Nothing serious but I can improve.

Just happens my business partner in the new corp event biz is an audio geek so I am going to find a few minutes and run some of my questions by him and see what I learn. I will see how much a geek he really is. Wink

Philip
frog blog

Mark Slade
User

Feb 6, 2008, 5:31 PM

Post #6 of 16 (1309 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Time to learn something [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm using Edius as well with the same settings. I try not to let the sound get much into the yellow. One of the things I do if I have wildly fluctuating levels is to compress it and flatten it out some in Audition.

Mark

Kenneth
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Feb 6, 2008, 6:35 PM

Post #7 of 16 (1303 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Time to learn something [In reply to]	Can't Post

You're ears can deceive you when editing audio. Don't trust them. You should never let anything et above -6 db, except for maybe an applaud or somebody hollaring out something during a speech. But nothing should ever get above 0 db.

Do you use Final Cut? If so I have a nifty trick for you.
......................................................................
Philadelphia Wedding Video
The Kenneth Stillman Blog
Philadelphia Trash the Dress

fr0gm@n
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Feb 6, 2008, 6:41 PM

Post #8 of 16 (1299 views)
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Re: [Kenneth] Time to learn something [In reply to]	Can't Post

No FCP....we are an Edius studio....well not really a studio.... more like a bunch of computers in my dining room. Frown

frog blog

Kenneth
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Feb 6, 2008, 6:43 PM

Post #9 of 16 (1296 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Time to learn something [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

No FCP....we are an Edius studio....well not really a studio.... more like a bunch of computers in my dining room. Frown

okay then, no cool audio tips for you. LOL
......................................................................
Philadelphia Wedding Video
The Kenneth Stillman Blog
Philadelphia Trash the Dress

MLiebergot
Veteran

Feb 6, 2008, 9:09 PM

Post #10 of 16 (1284 views)
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Re: [Kenneth] Time to learn something [In reply to]	Can't Post

Kenny I'm learning FCP, what's the trick.

I really love Vegas over any NLE as it was designed for audio first, so it rocks at that. As well as video. I switched platforms to the dark side (didn't trust Vista) and run both XL and Leopard, but learning FCS currently and still editing in Vegas to cut down on my backlog, as I'm much faster currently.

Most of my audio from FCP I do in Soundtrack Pro.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

Mark Foley
Veteran

Feb 7, 2008, 8:36 AM

Post #11 of 16 (1263 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Time to learn something [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

Man I wish you and/or Foley would have been at Video08

I've actually received a few PMs saying the same thing...I wished my schedule would have allowed me to attend this year. Hopefully next year...in fact I've been asked by Edirol/Roland Systems to possibly help present at future conferences....

_________________________
Mark

fr0gm@n
Veteran

Feb 7, 2008, 9:57 AM

Post #12 of 16 (1248 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] Time to learn something [In reply to]	Can't Post

Give me a call sometime....not today....I'm still recovering physically from the blizzard yesterday. I have an idea for a topic you could present unrelated to Edirol/Roland that I would be at in a heartbeat and I think many others would too.

It is something you are really good at that many of us aren't. Of course it is audio related but I have an idea of what I would like to learn that I think would benefit lots of people and you (or Mliebergot) would be perfect to teach it.

In a few days give me a ring and I will explain it all.
frog blog

Mark Foley
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Feb 7, 2008, 11:23 AM

Post #13 of 16 (1239 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] Time to learn something [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

I'm still recovering physically from the blizzard yesterday

Holy crap...just reading about the weather there...Madison sure does get nailed with extreme weather....

_________________________
Mark

fr0gm@n
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Feb 8, 2008, 2:35 PM

Post #14 of 16 (1207 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] Time to learn something [In reply to]	Can't Post

Actually its the first time we got nailed in a while. We have had a nice run of very mild winters the last 4-5 years. It is pretty bad this year though. We are 2.5 inches from a seasonal record and it's barely Feb. It was our second biggest snowfall on record for a 24 hour period. We got 12.5 in Madison....less than a mile south close to the IL border they got over 21". I was here for the record snow fall as well in Dec 1990...it was my first winter here.

So ...... lets see....I have been here all of 18 years and have seen the 2 biggest snowfalls in weather keeping history of over 100 years....doesn't sound like global warming to me. Tongue

People have lived here all their lives for 80+ years and haven't seen storms worse than the 2 I have seen in less than 20.

Still like living here...at least most years I do! This year ..... questionable so far. Wink

frog blog

LarsCA
User

Feb 8, 2008, 11:54 PM

Post #15 of 16 (1191 views)
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Re: [Kenneth] Time to learn something [In reply to]	Can't Post

No NO No NO. I'm on FCP and I sure could use a nifty trick or two Pirate

Now spill it... (please?)

---
So many toys, so little time. And no money so it doesn't matter anyway...

Kenneth
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Feb 9, 2008, 6:31 AM

Post #16 of 16 (1179 views)
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Re: [LarsCA] Time to learn something [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

No NO No NO. I'm on FCP and I sure could use a nifty trick or two Pirate

Now spill it... (please?)

I use the AUPeak Limiter Audio Filter on almost every clip. THis filter has 2 really great benefits.

WIth it you can raise levels by up to 40 decibels, which is great compared to the 12 decibels that the timeline allows. We've all had the reader who whispers John's first letter to the Corinthians.LOL So this will allow you to raise levels up a great deal.

The cool thing about this filter is that once you use it, your audio level in the timeline becomes your limiter. In other words, no matter how loud you set the gain in the filer, if you set the level in the timeline to -6 you will never have to worry about the audio being too loud or clipping.

The best time for this clip is during a toast. I will drop this filet on a clip, raise it up to 12 or 18 db and set the level in the timeline to -6. So now when the best man is talking he's at a constant -6,and when people laugh or applaud they also remain at -6. So I never have to worry about the audio suddenly getting loud during parts of the wedding.

I'll even use it for the music at the reception. I increase by 6 db and set the timeline at -6 db and it seems to give the music a little more umph.

Check it out and let me know what you think.

AUPeak Limiter
......................................................................
Philadelphia Wedding Video
The Kenneth Stillman Blog
Philadelphia Trash the Dress