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Home: Video University Forums: Audio For Video:
portable recording device suggestions

 
 


Linda
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Oct 3, 2007, 9:45 AM

Post #1 of 15 (1657 views)
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I've been looking to purchase a new portable recording device to capture vows. We have a restricted budget so am looking for a device somewhere around the $100 to $125 range. Through surfing the net, I found that the irivers are no longer on the market. Can anyone suggest a similar product? Thanks.



Linda
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Mark Foley
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Oct 3, 2007, 9:49 AM

Post #2 of 15 (1656 views)
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Re: [Linda] portable recording device suggestions [In reply to] Can't Post
There are plently of iRivers available on e-bay...but always beware you maybe buying someone's problem. The Zoom H2 at $200 is you next best bet

_________________________
Mark



MLiebergot
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Oct 3, 2007, 10:35 AM

Post #3 of 15 (1646 views)
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Re: [Linda] portable recording device suggestions [In reply to] Can't Post
Pickup a Zoom H2 recorder, you won't regret it for the price.
much better than an iRiver, as you have the ability to record using onboard mics, as well as the ability to record uncompressed 24/96 or at least 48/16 WAV files (much better than MP3 audio) to removable SD media (up to 8GB). They are getting very good feedback from rabid audio tapers and myself. There are a few little issues with the unit, but less than iRivers and such for the most part.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

(This post was edited by MLiebergot on Oct 3, 2007, 10:35 AM)


Linda
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Oct 3, 2007, 2:11 PM

Post #4 of 15 (1624 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] portable recording device suggestions [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
Pickup a Zoom H2 recorder, you won't regret it for the price.
much better than an iRiver, as you have the ability to record using onboard mics, as well as the ability to record uncompressed 24/96 or at least 48/16 WAV files (much better than MP3 audio) to removable SD media (up to 8GB). They are getting very good feedback from rabid audio tapers and myself. There are a few little issues with the unit, but less than iRivers and such for the most part.

May I ask what kind of issues have been reported?



Linda
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE


MLiebergot
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Oct 3, 2007, 2:25 PM

Post #5 of 15 (1622 views)
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Re: [Linda] portable recording device suggestions [In reply to] Can't Post
It's just things like sync issues with video. Which really is misunderstood, as most recorders and cameras have different internal clocks and will really never sync up exactly properly. Syncing up the audio in post is very easy to do, and has been discussed many times ahere and elsewhere.

Also the H2, like most recorders start a new recorded file at 2GB of use on the recorded file. This is known a s a split. The H2 won't doa seamless split. Meaning that there will be about a 1-2 second delay before the start of the next file. tehse are realy the only known complaints that I ahve heard from users. Many like myself, are very happy with the unit.

I also own Edirol R4 (4 track recorder). Edirol R09, and Zoom H2 recorders. I still prefer my Edirol R09 over the H4 and H2, but the R09 is $200 more than the H2 so you get what you pay for. But for $199 the H2 offers LOTS and is more than worth the money. The funny thing is that I remember paying $199 for 1GB iRivers years ago, and the iRIvers can't touch the H2 for recording fidelity, convenience, and ease of use.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!


Brackish
Veteran


Oct 3, 2007, 4:52 PM

Post #6 of 15 (1609 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] portable recording device suggestions [In reply to] Can't Post
How far off is the H2 sync running? Typical to what an iRiver
does?

Has there been any talk of the pre-amps on the H2
in regards to hiss or other self-noise?


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MLiebergot
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Oct 3, 2007, 5:26 PM

Post #7 of 15 (1605 views)
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Re: [Brackish] portable recording device suggestions [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
How far off is the H2 sync running? Typical to what an iRiver
does?

Has there been any talk of the pre-amps on the H2
in regards to hiss or other self-noise?
I believe that the H2 uses the same internal clock as the H4. So your audio will be slightly out of sync every 45 minutes or so. So if you adjust your audio to 100.05% on your timeline, then your audio should stay in sync with your video. This isn't a concern for me as I only use about 20 minutes Max or so of continuous video for my editing. I usually edit in video vinettes, so I would use my recorder audio as my base and cut various clips to my timeline as needed. But it's nice to know that there is a simple solution for my edit, if I did have the need for synced 1+ hours of video. Your auio should stay in sync better than an iRiver anyway, just for the fact that you can record in 24/96 or at least 16/48 WAV format for better recording framerate to your video.

As for the onbaord pre amps, they are the same as the H4, maybe a bit better. You will get more hiss depending on what recorder setting you are using (H/M/L) gain. High gain sucks, Medium is acceptable, and Low is pretty good.
As I said the pre's are alright, but what do you want from a $199 recorder? R4 quality pre amps...ain't ever gonna happen.

For what you get for the price, the H2 blows away an iRiver and most mini disc recorders for that matter. As I said, earlier I still prefer my R09 over the H4 and H2. But the R09 is $200 more than the H2.


Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!


RT Steele
Veteran


Oct 3, 2007, 8:34 PM

Post #8 of 15 (1592 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] portable recording device suggestions [In reply to] Can't Post
as most recorders and cameras have different internal clocks and will really never sync up exactly properly.
I've been hearing this "clock" thing a lot now and while no expert I'm going to disagree with this as being the definitive culprit to OOS (Out of Synch) issues.

Instead, I wonder if it's not the SD chip's inability to buffer the actual recording properly since there are so many types out there - some rated better than others. These things might be the oddball in the equation rather than the timing chip/curcuitry. Of course ambient temperature plays a part as well I would think.

I've nothing to base this on. Just my techie-nerd thought for the day and I didn't have to edit stupid wedding people for 5 minutes.

- RT


Mark Foley
Veteran


Oct 4, 2007, 3:34 AM

Post #9 of 15 (1573 views)
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Re: [RT Steele] portable recording device suggestions [In reply to] Can't Post
RT,
I can guarantee you its is a 100% clock issue....

Lets face it, we cannot expect a full featured timecode generator circuit in these inexpensive devices (although some may think they cost allot). The crystal oscillators in these units probably run from the "time of day" clock. Although this can be pretty accurate, things like temperature changes and minute variances in battery voltage all effect the frequency of the clock. There has been so much discussion here and on other boards about clock errors, clock stability, something "wrong" with the prosumer flash recorders (including the H2/H4/iRiver and many others). These boxes are working as designed. They are not designed for video sync

To get exact sync and a real TC generator, you need to step up to at least the Tascam HD-P2 (about $1000 US street price). Going up in price, the Edirol R4Pro, various decks from Fostex and Sound Devices...etc

Even with TC and sync capable decks, there can be differences in clock. These recorders allow locking the clock to an external video source (genlock), which results in clock sync over hours-long takes.

_________________________
Mark



(This post was edited by Mark Foley on Oct 4, 2007, 4:48 AM)


Brackish
Veteran


Oct 4, 2007, 3:38 AM

Post #10 of 15 (1569 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] portable recording device suggestions [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
RT,
I can guarantee you its is a 100% clock issue....
Yeah, I would think.


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RT Steele
Veteran


Oct 4, 2007, 9:19 AM

Post #11 of 15 (1557 views)
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Re: [Mark Foley] portable recording device suggestions [In reply to] Can't Post
Lets face it, we cannot expect a full featured timecode generator circuit in these inexpensive devices

I can live with that explanation.

The timing/synching issue is not that big of a deal for me and I encounter this problem all the time and not just with recorders. Like right now I'm synching an original first dance tune from a CD to my camera that captured it off the DJ's stack. This very same CD was used by the DJ and it's about a half a second off. I won't use the camera version except for the beginning and end which has some applause in it but still find it interesting. The problem could be in the timing circuit of the DJ's equipment, my camera, the CD ripper I used, even my NLE I suppose.

I seldom need to synch up more than 10 minutes of any external recording anyway for a wedding so cheaper devices are fine with me. BUT... I can see this as a becoming bigger problem when needing the sound from longer events like stage performances so I certainly can see the need not to cut corners here by using a cheap device.

- RT


Mark Foley
Veteran


Oct 4, 2007, 10:02 AM

Post #12 of 15 (1553 views)
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Re: [RT Steele] portable recording device suggestions [In reply to] Can't Post
Quote
The problem could be in the timing circuit of the DJ's equipment
possible he was using pitch shift that is common on many DJ-type mixers....


_________________________
Mark



Brackish
Veteran


Oct 4, 2007, 5:17 PM

Post #13 of 15 (1532 views)
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Re: [RT Steele] portable recording device suggestions [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To

... I can see this as a becoming bigger problem when needing the sound from longer events like stage performances so I certainly can see the need not to cut corners here by using a cheap device.
I regularly sync for an hour so it can be done with proper
technique even, with these less expensive devices.

One problem that would become an issue with "important"
performances such as concert recitals or opera singers
is that, when you start adjusting the sync in post,
say to 101% or 99% by stretching or shrinking the audio, it
can actually subtly change the sound to a point that
would be perceptible to a critical listener.

I have actually noticed these changes myself, mostly
with my recordings of opera singers, even when
making a shrinking/stretching adjustment of just four
frames per hour! It can be noticeable in held notes -
that they aren't as smooth sounding as real life.


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RT Steele
Veteran


Oct 5, 2007, 7:01 PM

Post #14 of 15 (1484 views)
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Re: [Brackish] portable recording device suggestions [In reply to] Can't Post
I have actually noticed these changes myself, mostly
with my recordings of opera singers,
No opera for me but I have adjusted sound files another way. Instead of stretching or shrinking the audio I will insert a "gap" at an appropriate place in the wave form (where no lips are moving) and then copy some similar noise and paste it in that gap to muffle the silence.

- RT


Brackish
Veteran


Oct 5, 2007, 7:56 PM

Post #15 of 15 (1479 views)
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Re: [RT Steele] portable recording device suggestions [In reply to] Can't Post
A lot of mine hire in professional opera singers. Interestingly,
in consultations, one of the top things that the clients say
that it is okay to condense/shorten in the video is the singer.


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