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Home: Video University Forums: Canon All Camcorders:
PC vs MAC - the age old question

X-Sketch
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Nov 13, 2003, 4:16 PM

Post #1 of 15 (2315 views)
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PC vs MAC - the age old question	Can't Post

I've heard of late that the MAC is the ONLY way to go for video editing. Apparently the MAC is built for what we need in the DV editing environment. OK, all is good there ... cha-ching !!
Of those that have an equal processor/memory setup and have tried both the MAC and the PC ... is there really a significant difference ? Is the cost of shucking a late model, high powered (processor and memory) PC for the MAC environment really worth the expense ?
Thanks, and ... great to see a sounding board for us editors.
Sketch

X-Gary_Cox
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Nov 13, 2003, 5:32 PM

Post #2 of 15 (2315 views)
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Re: PC vs MAC - the age old question	Can't Post

I have PC's and Mac's, the difference in my opinion,
Macs are usually more reliable and stable and are based on a sort of Unix OS although Apple has released some really buggy software lately.
PC OS systems are buggy, based on old DOS technology and PC systems are less restrictive on how you can write the software but that opens up more compatibility issues.
Microsoft admits to many bugs and problems and often releases fixes.
Apple just doesn't admit to anything but on occasion a fix will mysterously appear.
Apple has always done graphics and video very well.
Pc's lagged behind Apple in graphics for a long time.
Which is better, me having both it's hard to say. At one time I would say "Apple" is definately the way to go. As of late and having suffered through multiple buggy and incompatible software released from Apple my opinion is weighing nutral.
... Gary

: I've heard of late that the MAC is the ONLY way to go for video editing. Apparently the MAC is built for what we need in the DV editing environment. OK, all is good there ... cha-ching !!
: Of those that have an equal processor/memory setup and have tried both the MAC and the PC ... is there really a significant difference ? Is the cost of shucking a late model, high powered (processor and memory) PC for the MAC environment really worth the expense ?
: Thanks, and ... great to see a sounding board for us editors.
: Sketch

X-Nathan
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Nov 13, 2003, 7:14 PM

Post #3 of 15 (2314 views)
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Re: PC vs MAC - the age old question [In reply to]	Can't Post

: I've heard of late that the MAC is the ONLY way to go for video editing. Apparently the MAC is built for what we need in the DV editing environment. OK, all is good there ... cha-ching !!
: Of those that have an equal processor/memory setup and have tried both the MAC and the PC ... is there really a significant difference ? Is the cost of shucking a late model, high powered (processor and memory) PC for the MAC environment really worth the expense ?
: Thanks, and ... great to see a sounding board for us editors.
: Sketch
I have used both and now edit on PC. Mac "MAY" be better (I have seen nothing to convince me of this) but I cannot justify the extra cost of a Mac. A well built PC will do the same thing a Mac will do and leave you with enough money left over to just about buy a GL2. OK Mac users, you can start verbaly assualting me now:-)

X-Doug
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Nov 14, 2003, 1:40 PM

Post #4 of 15 (2315 views)
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thats just not true... [In reply to]	Can't Post

"A well built PC will do the same thing a Mac will do and leave you with enough money left over to just about buy a GL2."
A G5 is less than $2000, iMacs are $1200-$1800. A Gl-2 is what...$2000? Tell me where you can find a sub $500 PC that will be built well enough to do video reliably?
Yes Macs do cost a bit more. However there is not so great a divide these days. While the performance of PC vs Macs in video has gotten better, so too has the cost of a Mac vs PC.
Then there is the dealbreaker for many...software. Final Cut Pro is Mac only. So too is OSX.
While you can do it on a PC, macs have been at it for so much longer they are still ahead when it comes to seamless workflow and ease of use.

X-deebee
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Nov 14, 2003, 1:42 PM

Post #5 of 15 (2315 views)
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Re: PC vs MAC - the age old question [In reply to]	Can't Post

"PC OS systems are buggy, based on old DOS technology "
XP is not based on DOS .. XP is very solid on any computer made in past year. if you are installing it on a 2-3 year old computer then you are going to have problems. same with MAC you install OSX on a 3 year old mac and it's not going to run the same as a G5 with os10 ..
"Microsoft admits to many bugs and problems and often releases fixes."
most of the updates /security etc are for microsofts internet explorer.

IMO decide on your NLE .. then work from there. if you want FCP then there is no decision to make. if Avid then you must choose. if Vegas = no decision to make ... etc..
today either mac or pc can do the job ...

X-Rick_Rockwell
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Nov 14, 2003, 2:32 PM

Post #6 of 15 (2315 views)
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Re: thats just not true... [In reply to]	Can't Post

: "A well built PC will do the same thing a Mac will do and leave you with enough money left over to just about buy a GL2."
: A G5 is less than $2000, iMacs are $1200-$1800. A Gl-2 is what...$2000? Tell me where you can find a sub $500 PC that will be built well enough to do video reliably?
: Yes Macs do cost a bit more. However there is not so great a divide these days. While the performance of PC vs Macs in video has gotten better, so too has the cost of a Mac vs PC.
: Then there is the dealbreaker for many...software. Final Cut Pro is Mac only. So too is OSX.
: While you can do it on a PC, macs have been at it for so much longer they are still ahead when it comes to seamless workflow and ease of use.
You can get an eMac for $700 (which includes a monitor). So you can get a G4 processor for a very low rate these days. Considering 17 inch monitors are around $100-120, that means you are really paying around $580-600 for the eMac, with iMovie, iPhoto, iTunes. Can't beat that deal.

X-Doug_
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Nov 14, 2003, 10:03 PM

Post #7 of 15 (2315 views)
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again, not true... [In reply to]	Can't Post

"you install OSX on a 3 year old mac and it's not going to run the same as a G5
with os10 .."
I have OS 10.2 on a 1999 laptop with a G3 400mhz and it runs flawlessly. Not
one kernal panic, aps rarely if ever quit, and no system hangs in the 2 years I've
owned it. Many others report the same. The people having trouble are the
ones with early G3 desktops (6+ years old?). My sisters 3 year old Dell can't
use XP period! It does not have the right hardware (MB or processor).
: "Microsoft admits to many bugs and problems and often releases fixes."
: most of the updates /security etc are for microsofts internet explorer.
XP has had over 1000 updates. Or so IT people tell me. Most people never see
them because they are are installed automatically or only provided to IT
departments, not individual home users.
:
: IMO decide on your NLE .. then work from there. if you want FCP then there is
no decision to make. if Avid then you must choose. if Vegas = no decision to
make ... etc..
True
: today either mac or pc can do the job ...
True

X-Gary_Cox
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Nov 18, 2003, 2:33 PM

Post #8 of 15 (2315 views)
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Re: PC vs MAC - the age old question [In reply to]	Can't Post

I work in the IT field (videography is just secondary)
XP still retains some of it's DOS history, otherwise you couldn't run older programs. XP is based on a design made many years ago and it has been "improved" and built on since them. We had DOS, Windows 3.0, 3.1, 95, 98, NT, 2000 then XP with variations of it inbetween with each building on the previous. I think 2000 even says "built on NT technology". Microsoft needs to start from scratch and build a totally new OS which at this month's Comdex they indicated that they have started on doing so! The "concept" on which all Microsoft OS's are built on is old and has problems from it's concept, recently the biggest problems are security and not just IE but just OS problems. It is somewhat hard to distinguish IE from the OS though as IE upgrades change OS components and OS upgrades change IE components...
I bought my wife a brand new HP system with XP home edition, it's about 4 months old but it has it's problems as do other XP systems I work on. I wouldn't rate XP as stable as MAC OS.
Mac OS on the other hand I agree has been very solid on my year and half old Mac G4 and year old Imac. It's based on Unix technology which has been around for a very long time.
I can't say as much for some of Apple's released software in the past year! The first version of IDVD release was a real dog but not nearly as bad as the completely unusable first version of Imovie 3.0! Releasing such buggy software is uncharacteristic of Apple based on all their years of solid software but it seems to be happening more and more often lately that Apple releases software before it is ready.
Microsoft needs to redesign their OS (which they are) basing it on more solid concepts of operation and securing it as not a day goes by someone doesn't find a security hole.
Apple needs to tighten it's testing and perhaps put "real users" back in the loop for testing. I debug software and see programers release software that it takes me 5 minutes to find a bug which should have been simple to find as a programmer. Many programmers do not live in the "real world".
One advantage of Apple is they have tighter control over hardware and drivers for their os and hardware. Pc's anyone and everyone is making software, hardware and drivers and they sometimes do not interact well together.
For someone deciding which to buy you have to weigh your options and whatever you buy it is usually best to buy something together that has been tested not buy a "no brand" PC and a piece of hardware here and there and mix it all up.
Just my opinions... Gary

: "PC OS systems are buggy, based on old DOS technology "
: XP is not based on DOS .. XP is very solid on any computer made in past year. if you are installing it on a 2-3 year old computer then you are going to have problems. same with MAC you install OSX on a 3 year old mac and it's not going to run the same as a G5 with os10 ..
: "Microsoft admits to many bugs and problems and often releases fixes."
: most of the updates /security etc are for microsofts internet explorer.
:
: IMO decide on your NLE .. then work from there. if you want FCP then there is no decision to make. if Avid then you must choose. if Vegas = no decision to make ... etc..
: today either mac or pc can do the job ...

X-ike
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Dec 9, 2003, 1:56 PM

Post #9 of 15 (2315 views)
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on pc vs mac all around. [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello
Really I have used both significantly for quite some time now, Most video editing programs do not run on mac they run on pc. Yes mac has there own editing programs like Final cut pro and alll of the pro version of there i series of everything. Also in almost most cases if you were a little bit in a crunch on price and needed a program for some editing that you did not have enough money to buy you could just pull up Kazaa lite and then find it on there. Although pixar uses mac computers to do there animating or at least the mac programs, over 92% of all video game companies use pcs.
also pretty soon over the next 18 or so months mac will be slowly trying to incorporate intel processors into there macs, They still have to get intel to except, but they are doing this because they can no longer keep telling every body that the processor is not everything. Well they are right on that but they lack so much in the processor that all of there other components are not able to run fast enough, To get there new g5 mac out in before the year of 2004 and then some even bill gates, yes bill gates gave them funding, even though steve jobs cannot stand microsoft they had to except so they literally were not left in the dust. And now ibm has joined up in helping make the processor because they are two companies that are going down and they figured maybe coming together would help. It is just a matter of time before all businesses and all home computer ownere will own a pc, it is just not possible for apple to keep up making everything on there own like they have in the past. They do not have the man power nor the money to support there staying allive. To keep up they will have to integrate pc components and even one day maybe even window operating sytems. you can custom build a pc with buying the programs that runs faster and works better for less of the price. They are done for and you do not want to be left in the dust with them
isaac

X-Chillybin
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Dec 21, 2003, 8:14 AM

Post #10 of 15 (2315 views)
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Re: PC vs MAC - the age old question [In reply to]	Can't Post

: I have PC's and Mac's, the difference in my opinion,
: Macs are usually more reliable and stable and are based on a sort of Unix OS although Apple has released some really buggy software lately.
: PC OS systems are buggy, based on old DOS technology and PC systems are less restrictive on how you can write the software but that opens up more compatibility issues.
: Microsoft admits to many bugs and problems and often releases fixes.
: Apple just doesn't admit to anything but on occasion a fix will mysterously appear.
: Apple has always done graphics and video very well.
: Pc's lagged behind Apple in graphics for a long time.
: Which is better, me having both it's hard to say. At one time I would say "Apple" is definately the way to go. As of late and having suffered through multiple buggy and incompatible software released from Apple my opinion is weighing nutral.
: ... Gary

:
: : I've heard of late that the MAC is the ONLY way to go for video editing. Apparently the MAC is built for what we need in the DV editing environment. OK, all is good there ... cha-ching !!
: : Of those that have an equal processor/memory setup and have tried both the MAC and the PC ... is there really a significant difference ? Is the cost of shucking a late model, high powered (processor and memory) PC for the MAC environment really worth the expense ?
: : Thanks, and ... great to see a sounding board for us editors.
: : Sketch

Dudes, Im blitzin the PAL DV barrier on a MacG5DecklinkSP System fully kitted...and being Bi-Platformed I'll throw in me 2cents worth...macs are in-house systems everything you need is just there, and they work but only if you know ya stuff, like specs, codecs, compression and all that jazz. PC Systems I had nuthin but hassles with, seems like you always need third party plugins, drivers and all that jazz..just to capture and digitize...what a nitemare...I spent more time looking 3rd party crap than actual post time...thens theres the render time...horrendous time..but dont get me started...Get over it and get a Mac, I did It cost me $25K which I do not have but on the upside just finished my first commercial product shot on a XL-1 and oh no Shot in LP MODE!- The G5MAC firewired to the XL-1 ate that LP Tape like there was no tomorrow.
If you dont know your craft and all the specs of every media industry than go and get some professional training from a qualified school. Its worth it believe me I was a bum 2yrs ago...now Im a bum with a Mac.
PEACE.
P.S. I lied about my email address too. but remeber the name CHILLYBIN...seeeeyyyooouuulllll>>>

X-chillybin
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Dec 21, 2003, 8:16 AM

Post #11 of 15 (2315 views)
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Re: PC vs MAC - the age old question [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dudes, Im blitzin the PAL DV barrier on a MacG5DecklinkSP System fully kitted...and being Bi-Platformed I'll throw in me 2cents worth...macs are in-house systems everything you need is just there, and they work but only if you know ya stuff, like specs, codecs, compression and all that jazz. PC Systems I had nuthin but hassles with, seems like you always need third party plugins, drivers and all that jazz..just to capture and digitize...what a nitemare...I spent more time looking 3rd party crap than actual post time...thens theres the render time...horrendous time..but dont get me started...Get over it and get a Mac, I did It cost me $25K which I do not have but on the upside just finished my first commercial product shot on a XL-1 and oh no Shot in LP MODE!- The G5MAC firewired to the XL-1 ate that LP Tape like there was no tomorrow.
: If you dont know your craft and all the specs of every media industry than go and get some professional training from a qualified school. Its worth it believe me I was a bum 2yrs ago...now Im a bum with a Mac.
: PEACE.
: P.S. I lied about my email address too. but remeber the name CHILLYBIN...seeeeyyyooouuulllll>>>

X-OblivionLord
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Dec 22, 2003, 1:34 AM

Post #12 of 15 (2315 views)
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Re: thats just not true... [In reply to]	Can't Post

As of 12-22-03 a High End G5 for video editing using Final Cut Pro 4.0 consists of:
Dual 2.0Ghz G5
3200ddr 1gb ram
2x250gb hd
ATI 9600 Pro
FCP 4.0 Full
No Monitor
= $4,744.00
I added the 2x250gb hd's cause 1 80gb hd is just not practical when video editing expecially when dealing with uncompressed video. Its always better to capture video on the slave HD. I added 1gb of ram cause 512mb isnt enough.
Lets look at the low end of the G5 for the same purpose:
1.6 G5
1 gb 2700ddr
2x250 HD
Nvida 5200 video
FCP 4.0 Full
No Monitor
= $3,795.00
As you can see with this model we now have slower memory bandwith by using 2700 instead of 3200. The video card I kept stock at Nvida5200 since video editing doesnt require much from the video card. We aren't grafic designing here.
Well thats it. You have 3 options with a G5 at Apple to choose from. Since your buying a G5 for video editing then why go cheap?
Now lets use a PC program which is also on the MAC and works for Windows. Avid Express Pro. How many diffrences are there between these 2 programs? Its the same debate when comparing AMD64FX and the 2.0 dual G5. Its nothing dramatic in fact they are on par with each other. How many Hollywood major motion pictures are done on Personal Computers? Most of the time they use Silicon GFX machines. For the profesional market the PC has just as much as the Mac in terms of how flexable it is in video and audio editing AND performance. To say otherwise is absolutly naive
Lets make a PC comparison against the High end G5:
Asus SK8V - $241.88
OCZ 1gb 3200ddr - $299.00
AMD64FX-51 Retail - $776.00
Antec SLK3700 Case w/350 PS - $77.00
2x250GB WD 7200 8mb - $456
Avid Xpress Pro - $1,695.00
No Monitor
= $3,544
I now have $1,200 Play money with the pc. I can use this for any dual or single monitor setep I wish. The Mac G5 still needs a monitor so that is still going to put us more in the $$$. If money isnt the issue then just look at both of these High End Builds. They are both practicly equal in performance. If you are looking to do things any faster then you'll have to look to other computers possibly make your own render farm but, then we are well exceeding the price of both of these.
G5 2.0 Dual $4,744.00 vs AMD64-FX $3,544
Take your pick.

X-Mr_Bafendo
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Feb 2, 2004, 12:49 PM

Post #13 of 15 (2314 views)
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Re: PC vs MAC - the age old question [In reply to]	Can't Post

Apple is a great computer. I thinkm they will be more popular than the
"pc". IBM makes apple's proccesors, and know HP and Apple have started a partnership. Apple will make ipods for HP.

X-Garry_Heaton
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Feb 22, 2004, 7:27 PM

Post #14 of 15 (2314 views)
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Re: thats just not true... [In reply to]	Can't Post

I have a dual 2Ghz G5 and 2 2.2Ghz Athlons running XP Pro and Linux. While Macs may be good for something other than OS stability their BIG problem is that they are just too mouse-bound. If you dislike relying heavily on the mouse, using a Mac all day is a real chore. In XP and Linux I can get around the interface using a combination of keyboard shortcuts and the ever-so-essential indexed menus which are all accessible via Alt+<underlined first letter>. Until the Mac gets this feature it will always remain a limited "point'n click" tool.

X-greg_sedun
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Feb 22, 2004, 11:29 PM

Post #15 of 15 (2314 views)
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Re: thats just not true... [In reply to]	Can't Post

Personnally i'm a gamer so, i prefer PC's over mmacs any day. All the good games are meant for Pc not Mac. For editing I would go with Mac's. The other positive thing is that the Imacs are all one piece and to connect a camera it's simple, no patchs no nothing just plug and play. The only problem with editing with an Imac is memory, I always run out of space. Overall I like PC's because anything you can do on a Mac you can do on a PC. I rest my case if you reply send me an email as well.