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Home: Video University Forums: Canon All Camcorders:
Sound questions

 

 


X-Tana
Imported Account

Jun 18, 2001, 11:50 PM

Post #1 of 9 (1663 views)
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Sound questions Can't Post

Hi, I'm doing a claymation movie with dialogue. I plan to tape the dialogue first then match the figures to the speech. When I do the voices into the provided mike on the xl1 it doesn't sound too good. I tried different things but the sound is always unprofessional. I'm thinking of getting an xl1 adapter but I don't really know what they do. I'm new too all this and I really could use some good advice to get started. Thanks
Tana


X-Pavel_Szylobryt
Imported Account

Jun 19, 2001, 3:48 AM

Post #2 of 9 (1662 views)
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Re: Sound questions Can't Post

Hello again Tana
I use XL1 to record audio only very often. I use three different types of microphones. For monologs usually tie clip mike is the best. I got stereo one pretty cheap. For dialogs I use shotgun mikes. They got a switch for how big radius round mike i need to record. They do good job. On the other hand the downside of this is that I get fair amount of background hiss. I think it is due to the lenght of cables used in between mike and XL1 (about 6 meters). In post production, using Sonic Foundry SoundForge 4.5 or 5 with additional noise reduction plugin you can remove that hiss completly. All my recordings are good enough for broadcast. I hope this will be helpfull to you
Pavel


X-Mike
Imported Account

Jun 19, 2001, 12:09 PM

Post #3 of 9 (1662 views)
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Re: Sound questions [In reply to] Can't Post

Pavel: I think there is no question that a 6 meter xlr mic cord will give you some noise problem. Do you mount the shotgun on or near the camera? Why such a long cord?


X-Pavel
Imported Account

Jun 20, 2001, 8:33 AM

Post #4 of 9 (1663 views)
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Re: Sound questions [In reply to] Can't Post

Mike
I put shotgun mike near the subject i record. About 7 meters away from the cam. I need to be that far as they usually read from printed pages which are being hold under camera lens. This way you cannot see the eye movement. Plus I do it all in the studio with lots of lights and power oulets which contribute to interferance.



X-Tana
Imported Account

Jun 20, 2001, 12:42 PM

Post #5 of 9 (1662 views)
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Re: Sound questions [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay, you are talking to a newbie. I should get the xl1 adapter. Then I plug that to the camera and a mike into the adapter? I don't need a shot gun or six foot or anything. I just need to talk into a good mike to get broadcast quality sound. Thanks.


X-Pavel
Imported Account

Jun 21, 2001, 3:32 AM

Post #6 of 9 (1662 views)
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Re: Sound questions [In reply to] Can't Post

OK NEWBIE. You don't need any adapter. I think you talk about XLR adapter to plug broadcast connection mike into your XL1. Well, you simply unplug the mike which comes on top of you cam and plug another one in place. It really doesn't matter what kind of connection u will use. You won't notice any difference between two of them. XLR conection is big round thing with three big pins in it.
Pavel


X-don
Imported Account

Jun 21, 2001, 7:54 AM

Post #7 of 9 (1663 views)
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Re: Sound questions [In reply to] Can't Post

: Okay, you are talking to a newbie. I should get the xl1 adapter. Then I plug that to the camera and a mike into the adapter?
A lot depends on your shooting environment. Professional/broadcast quality mics come with XLR connectors rather than RCA or Mini-phone plug for good resons. Among them are durability, reliability, and balanced audio. Balanced audio is good because it significantly reduces noise pickup by the cabling, which becomes significant as cable length increases and if you are in an electriclly noisy area. For this reason, using an XLR adapter is a good way to go if you want the best possible sound.
Other notes, get the mic as close to the speaker as you can.
If you connect an XLR mic to the XL1 using a simple XLR-to-stereo mini phone plyg, you may have equal but out of phase audio on the left and right channel, which may translate to no sound on a VHS tape copy track, except 2x the stray nosie that was picked up by the balanced line which is no longer cancelled.
Cheap mics sound - well cheap.


X-hazuma
Imported Account

Jun 21, 2001, 4:07 PM

Post #8 of 9 (1663 views)
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looping [In reply to] Can't Post

Tana -
you say you are a newbie with the XL1, but how much experience do you have as an animator?
An "XLR" adapter is used to connect an external microphones (like shotguns or wireless remotes) to the XL-1 for better quality audio capture, during live filming, than you can get with the camera's on-board microphone. If you've got a good quality studio mic, or shotgun, with an XLR plug (three pins in a round connector on a shielded cable) then you need an XLR adapter to connect it to the adio input on the XL1. these mics cost hundreds of $, on top of the cost of the XLR adapter. if you don't have the mic., you don't need the adapter.

here is what it sounds like you are proposing to do:
1 - record the audio onto a min-DV cassette using the XL-1's microphone.
2 - record the stop-motion animation onto the same cassette.
There are LOTS of challenges in that scheme.
IF you have some kind of post production facilities, an easier way to do this would be to shoot the stop-motion footage first, then record the audio afterwards -- while watching the playback. This is called looping. It is a WHOLE lot easier to control the rate at which you talk to synch up with the action, than it is to try to animate to previously recorded sound.
That is not to say that the other way doesn't work. In fact, most traditional animation is done the other way, by teams of animators who rely (increasingly) on software to produce the keyframes and phoneme timing.
For what you are proposing, the on-board mic should do just fine, provided you set up your "recording studio" carefully.
You'll want to get pretty close to the microphone.
Connect headphones to the camera, if you've got them, and montor the sound as you record it. Get as close to the camera as you can before you start picking up "pops" on words with plosives (Bs and Ps) or hiss on sibilants.
Stand between the microphone and some sound absorbing backrgound (like heavy drapes).
A room with lots of (upholtered) furniture,and wall-to-wall carpeting will minimize echos from the walls and floor.
Setting up the camera so that it is above your head, and pointed down, will help reduce the echo it picks up from the ceiling.
You can also wrap something soft (like a sock) around the sides and back of the microphone to muffle the "off axis' pick-up, and make it more directional.
If you can rig up a frame, and stretch a piece of lightweight cloth (panyt hose works really well for this) in front of the mic (bot not touching the microphone) this will help reduce the "smacks" and "pops" too.
That said, you are still going to need to record the sound separately from the animation and synch them up somehow. Looking at your other posts i am guessing that you don't have easy access to any non linear edittng equipment or software? If I am mistaken, pretty much any NLE program will have some audio mixing built in, which can help to make the sound more "professional".
Good luck.
: Hi, I'm doing a claymation movie with dialogue. I plan to tape the dialogue first then match the figures to the speech. When I do the voices into the provided mike on the xl1 it doesn't sound too good. I tried different things but the sound is always unprofessional. I'm thinking of getting an xl1 adapter but I don't really know what they do. I'm new too all this and I really could use some good advice to get started. Thanks
: Tana



X-tana
Imported Account

Jun 22, 2001, 12:25 PM

Post #9 of 9 (1663 views)
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Re: looping [In reply to] Can't Post

Hazuma,
I'm very grateful to you for your thoughtful and practical answer. I will refer to it often. Thank you.
: Tana -
: you say you are a newbie with the XL1, but how much experience do you have as an animator?
: An "XLR" adapter is used to connect an external microphones (like shotguns or wireless remotes) to the XL-1 for better quality audio capture, during live filming, than you can get with the camera's on-board microphone. If you've got a good quality studio mic, or shotgun, with an XLR plug (three pins in a round connector on a shielded cable) then you need an XLR adapter to connect it to the adio input on the XL1. these mics cost hundreds of $, on top of the cost of the XLR adapter. if you don't have the mic., you don't need the adapter.
:
: here is what it sounds like you are proposing to do:
: 1 - record the audio onto a min-DV cassette using the XL-1's microphone.
: 2 - record the stop-motion animation onto the same cassette.
: There are LOTS of challenges in that scheme.
: IF you have some kind of post production facilities, an easier way to do this would be to shoot the stop-motion footage first, then record the audio afterwards -- while watching the playback. This is called looping. It is a WHOLE lot easier to control the rate at which you talk to synch up with the action, than it is to try to animate to previously recorded sound.
: That is not to say that the other way doesn't work. In fact, most traditional animation is done the other way, by teams of animators who rely (increasingly) on software to produce the keyframes and phoneme timing.
: For what you are proposing, the on-board mic should do just fine, provided you set up your "recording studio" carefully.
: You'll want to get pretty close to the microphone.
: Connect headphones to the camera, if you've got them, and montor the sound as you record it. Get as close to the camera as you can before you start picking up "pops" on words with plosives (Bs and Ps) or hiss on sibilants.
: Stand between the microphone and some sound absorbing backrgound (like heavy drapes).
: A room with lots of (upholtered) furniture,and wall-to-wall carpeting will minimize echos from the walls and floor.
: Setting up the camera so that it is above your head, and pointed down, will help reduce the echo it picks up from the ceiling.
: You can also wrap something soft (like a sock) around the sides and back of the microphone to muffle the "off axis' pick-up, and make it more directional.
: If you can rig up a frame, and stretch a piece of lightweight cloth (panyt hose works really well for this) in front of the mic (bot not touching the microphone) this will help reduce the "smacks" and "pops" too.
: That said, you are still going to need to record the sound separately from the animation and synch them up somehow. Looking at your other posts i am guessing that you don't have easy access to any non linear edittng equipment or software? If I am mistaken, pretty much any NLE program will have some audio mixing built in, which can help to make the sound more "professional".
: Good luck.
: : Hi, I'm doing a claymation movie with dialogue. I plan to tape the dialogue first then match the figures to the speech. When I do the voices into the provided mike on the xl1 it doesn't sound too good. I tried different things but the sound is always unprofessional. I'm thinking of getting an xl1 adapter but I don't really know what they do. I'm new too all this and I really could use some good advice to get started. Thanks
: : Tana