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Home: Video University Forums: Canon All Camcorders:
XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me?

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fr0gm@n
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Jun 22, 2008, 9:43 PM

Post #26 of 53 (1741 views)
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Re: [Bryan G] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

If the price difference is that big between the DVX and Z1 then the DVX is probably the right choice. The world won't be interested in your material less because it is HD since you just deliver it in SD. It will be in widescreen which may also be a benefit depending on how you frame your shots. It could give you some different look or flexibility with the wider screen.

Another cam to consider, especially if you are going to have interview type lighting is the Canon A1. It shoots in 24p as well and from some of the footage I have seen from those using 24p it is gorgeous. If you are just doing talking heads 24p is pretty cool and the A1 will do it in HD. You may find some lightly used Canopn A1 cams around since lots of people are selling them for the new solid state cams. You can get used A1s here stateside for around $2500-2700 (US). You may want to look into that. If you want to see the footage check out some of GlenElliots trailers he has recently posted shot in 24p. Pretty cool looking stuff.

Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog

Bryan G
User

Jun 22, 2008, 11:01 PM

Post #27 of 53 (1734 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Philip - good stuff

--------------------------------------
Many thanks for your help.....

BRYAN FROM DOWN-UNDER

There are precious few Einsteins
among us. Most brilliance arises
from ordinary people working
together in extraordinary ways
- Roger von Oech

fr0gm@n
Veteran

Jun 22, 2008, 11:13 PM

Post #28 of 53 (1728 views)
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Re: [Bryan G] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Now you're probably so confused you are lost. Every cam has strengths and weaknesses. In the grand scheme if you have controlled lighting for interviews, and it sounds like you do, then almost any of the prosumer 3 chip cams are going to do a good job and you will look respectable when you pull it out of the bag. Heck if you want to look impressive when you pull the cam out you can get shoulder mount SD DV cams with big image sensors pretty cheap on the used market now. They take incredible footage and you look like you are a TV camera man.

Almost any will work with good lighting.

Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog

Bryan G
User

Jun 22, 2008, 11:17 PM

Post #29 of 53 (1728 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Philip - do you mind clarifying for me: you state - "because it is HD since you just deliver it in SD". This sounds like you mean it is actually an HD camera? Is this correct? I think I have confused myself. Bryan

--------------------------------------
Many thanks for your help.....

BRYAN FROM DOWN-UNDER

There are precious few Einsteins
among us. Most brilliance arises
from ordinary people working
together in extraordinary ways
- Roger von Oech

fr0gm@n
Veteran

Jun 22, 2008, 11:37 PM

Post #30 of 53 (1722 views)
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Re: [Bryan G] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

With the newer HD cams you can shoot all your footage in stunning HD and edit it in HD and then when it is time to export for delivery you just use your NLE encoder to downrez it to SD. This will normally yield a better looking SD video than if it was shot in SD. You can then archive the project in HD if you want or just maintain the raw footage in HD for later if you need it. You are still working with a delivery that customers can use now knowing that when HD is needed you are prepared. If you are going to buy new the HD cams are only a tiny bit more than the SD cams are. Seems logical....you would future proof yourself. The HD cams will also shoot in SD widescreen so you don't even have to work in a HD environment if you computer isn't up to it. It does take more computer to edit HD easily than SD. If that's the case you can still shoot in HD and the camera will downrez to SD out the FW port and all is the same as SD. Your raw footage on tape is still HD for future use if you need it.

That probably just confused you more....in a nutshell if you can afford and HDV camera now it will give you more options with your delivery. Since you will be using controlled lighting for interviews you don't need to worry about the lessor low light problems. Here is a breakdown.

Camera type delivery options

SD 4x3 or 16x9 at a lower rez
Edit all in SD for a quick easy workflow

HDV 4x3 SD or 16x9 SD or 16x9 HD (yes you can use most of them in 4x3 mode)
Edit in HD and deliver HD (will be more taxing on your system)
Edit in HD and deliver in SD (will be taxing on your system)
Export from cam already converted to SD and edit in SD (same workflow as SD) but maintain tape footage in HD
Shoot in SD 4x3 (editing like a regular SD workflow)
Shoot in SD 16x9 (editing like a regular SD workflow)

You can see the opportunities that HDV brings you for only a few more dollars. There are plenty of videographers with HDV cams that are shooting in plain old SD but like the native 16x9 sensors in them.

Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog

Bryan G
User

Jun 23, 2008, 12:04 AM

Post #31 of 53 (1716 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Philip - that's good stuff. I like the idea about storing the edited HD footage in HD and downsizing what you want right now into SD.

I do have a quad processor and heaps of hard sisk space so that won't be an issue.

Assuming HDV is the way to go, would you recommend the DVX202 (which I think is the HD version - [if this is AVCHD I have no idea what that is - might as well be something used in space rockets!!]) over the Sony HVR Z1 or Canon A1? Both the latter are around $AUD 6,500 - haven't got a price for the Panny yet.

Let me know if I'm becoming a pain but I think I'm almost at a decision point and you can get on with your life again!

I'm poised ready to get an Edirol R44 too by the way.
Best regards, Bryan

--------------------------------------
Many thanks for your help.....

BRYAN FROM DOWN-UNDER

There are precious few Einsteins
among us. Most brilliance arises
from ordinary people working
together in extraordinary ways
- Roger von Oech

fr0gm@n
Veteran

Jun 23, 2008, 9:28 AM

Post #32 of 53 (1681 views)
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Re: [Bryan G] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

The DVX is a great cam but it is a pricey one that is solid state. If it is using AVCHD codec it is very very compressed and even more difficult to edit. If you are using an intermediate codec (converting to frame based on import) then it will edit easier. FCP has PreRes422, Matrox has their own codec and Canopus has their own codec. There is also one from Cineform as well. These make it much easier to process the HD data. I think the DVX will be priced more than the Z1/A1. Solid State is nice but unless you have the need for quick access to the data (ie....editing on site) there is no reason tape based cams can't still do the trick very well. I would rather have 2 Canon A1s in my arsenal instead of one Sony EX1. The Sony is an incredible cam but I can get more work down with 2 cams for the same price. I have a backlog as a way of life so solid state won't solve any problems for me.

Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog

JC/DV
Veteran

Jun 24, 2008, 3:45 PM

Post #33 of 53 (1644 views)
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Re: [Bryan G] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello Bryan,
Philip gives great advice!

FYI, IF you got the Canon A1, you can send it to a service center that can add the other system... ie: Get a NTSC cam and let them add PAL to it or vice versa. There is a fee, but it can be done if you are shooting both systems... I caught something about NTSC and PAL in one of your posts. This might be able to be done on other cameras too, but I'm not sure.

Jerome
JC/DV Productions - Website - Blog

Technology. It does wonders if you know how to use it.

(This post was edited by JC/DV on Jun 24, 2008, 3:46 PM)

Bryan G
User

Jun 24, 2008, 8:47 PM

Post #34 of 53 (1622 views)
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Re: [JC/DV] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Jerome for that - that's an interesting thought. This might open up the way for me to buy a (second hand) unit in the US (where there there seems to be a bigger choice and prices seem cheaper) and have it modified for use here. Wink

Wink

--------------------------------------
Many thanks for your help.....

BRYAN FROM DOWN-UNDER

There are precious few Einsteins
among us. Most brilliance arises
from ordinary people working
together in extraordinary ways
- Roger von Oech

Bryan G
User

Jun 24, 2008, 9:05 PM

Post #35 of 53 (1622 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for Philp. I seem to be coming back to a choice between the Canon A1 and the Sony Z1 now (both the same price in Oz). The XM2 (which first started this dialogue) is about $4000 so an extra $2,500 gets the full HD monty.

You scared me off AVHCD so thanks for that.

You lost me a bit on the codecs - I 'm probably not at that stage yet. If you are referring to editing, all I know is that I have Adobe Premiere Creative Suite 3 which says it will handle HD!!

Boy these newbies must be frustrating.

I will let you know how I go with the EdirolR44. I am going to try it out next weekend at a piano recital at which I have permission to set up my gear. I will use my consumer Panny GS NV180 and have an audio feed going into the Panny from the Edirol as an audio backup. At least that's what I'm planning. I looked long and hard at the Zoom H4 but in the final analysis and evaluating some very detailed reviews decided that it's "cheapness" - made in China and not solid state, made another $500 spent on the Edirol worth it.

--------------------------------------
Many thanks for your help.....

BRYAN FROM DOWN-UNDER

There are precious few Einsteins
among us. Most brilliance arises
from ordinary people working
together in extraordinary ways
- Roger von Oech

Bryan G
User

Jun 24, 2008, 9:07 PM

Post #36 of 53 (1619 views)
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Re: [JC/DV] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Jerome - wouuld you go for the Canon A1 over the Sony Z1? Sounds like you love the former!!

--------------------------------------
Many thanks for your help.....

BRYAN FROM DOWN-UNDER

There are precious few Einsteins
among us. Most brilliance arises
from ordinary people working
together in extraordinary ways
- Roger von Oech

fr0gm@n
Veteran

Jun 24, 2008, 9:12 PM

Post #37 of 53 (1619 views)
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Re: [Bryan G] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I have a copy of CS3 and it will handle HDV pretty well. It may get a little bogged down if you start adding lots of filters but it will work. Since you are doing mostly interviews and stuff with mostly basic cuts and few effects it will do you just fine.

If the price is the same for the A1 or the Z1 I would recommend the Z1 for you. I have the A1 and love it but it is a more complicated camera to master. The Z1 is more geared for those that want to take it out of the box and shoot. The A1 has lots of flexibility but you have to spend time learning it to really exploit it. If you want to do 24p then you have to pick the A1. If you aren't planning on 24p then the Z1 will work great. Have you considered the FX1 and a device like this. http://www.juicedlink.com/...ixjpQCFRZjnAodNloSfg It allows you to use pro audio mics on your FX1. The FX1 is essentially the Z1 minus the pro audio. Internally they are the same. You could probably get an FX1 and one of those Juicedlink devices for much less than the Z1 and still have the same capability. You mount it under the cam and never remove it. It may be a little bulkier but for the savings I could learn to deal with it. You may want to check out that alternative.

Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog

Bryan G
User

Jun 24, 2008, 9:47 PM

Post #38 of 53 (1611 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Philip - that sounds like a very good idea too!!

Re 24p, how important really is that?

--------------------------------------
Many thanks for your help.....

BRYAN FROM DOWN-UNDER

There are precious few Einsteins
among us. Most brilliance arises
from ordinary people working
together in extraordinary ways
- Roger von Oech

Bryan G
User

Jun 24, 2008, 9:51 PM

Post #39 of 53 (1610 views)
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Re: [Bryan G] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Philip, it was also very edifying that the Z1 does not do 24p and yet I would be paying the same price!! I am so grateful for the knowledge I am getting from people like yourrself who are willing to take time out to help ones like me. Bryan

--------------------------------------
Many thanks for your help.....

BRYAN FROM DOWN-UNDER

There are precious few Einsteins
among us. Most brilliance arises
from ordinary people working
together in extraordinary ways
- Roger von Oech

fr0gm@n
Veteran

Jun 24, 2008, 10:06 PM

Post #40 of 53 (1606 views)
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Re: [Bryan G] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I don't care for 24p because I do lots of slo mo stuff where it gets a little jerky. It is pretty clear when doing scenes with little motion like interviews. Regular video that we work with is interlaced but in 24p each frame is a full resolution frame (think a full photo with each frame). It makes for some pretty clear and cool looking video.

Check the trailer from GmElliot at this link. It was shot in 24p. You can see how good it can look. This guy has mastered the camera.

http://www.videouniversity.com/...;;page=unread#unread

Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog

JC/DV
Veteran

Jun 24, 2008, 10:07 PM

Post #41 of 53 (1606 views)
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Re: [Bryan G] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Jerome - wouuld you go for the Canon A1 over the Sony Z1? Sounds like you love the former!!

Personally for me, A1 hands down, but like Philip mentioned, it's not a shoot out of the box camera. To get full potential out of it you MUST know how to use it properly. DO NOT get the A1 if you are starting out!!!!!! So for someone starting out, I would recommend the Z1 or the FX1 with an XLR gizmo like the Beachtek that was mentioned earlier....

Jerome
JC/DV Productions - Website - Blog

Technology. It does wonders if you know how to use it.

Bryan G
User

Jun 24, 2008, 10:31 PM

Post #42 of 53 (1598 views)
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Re: [JC/DV] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Jerome - valuable advice!

--------------------------------------
Many thanks for your help.....

BRYAN FROM DOWN-UNDER

There are precious few Einsteins
among us. Most brilliance arises
from ordinary people working
together in extraordinary ways
- Roger von Oech

Bryan G
User

Jun 25, 2008, 9:55 PM

Post #43 of 53 (1550 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Philip, can I clarify 24P and the Canon A1?

You mentioned that it is 24P but I see no reference to this on the Canon specs - all they say is: "True 1080 High Definition image capture in 50i or 25F frame rates". My question therefore is: is this the same thing? . It is probably the same as the Canon XH G1 (a $11,500 camera) doesn't seem to refer to 24P either.

I understand that 24P refers to frames per second for high definition format, with the "P" meaning progressive image

By contrast the Panny DVX202 states in its specs:

"50i/50p mode: 1/50 (OFF), 1/60, 1/120, 1/250, 1/500,

1/1000, 1/2000 sec.

25p/25pN mode: 1/25, 1/50 (OFF), 1/60, 1/120, 1/250, 1/500,

1/1000 sec"

By the way, I was excited about the FX1 route (with the Juice Link add on) but apparently it is not being sold anymore which is why I now seem to be coming back to the A1 even though you and Jerome recommended this as not being for novices - especially as one retailer is offering a $1,300 discount on it at present (which seems strange for a newish model)

I won't bug you any more about cameras Philip after you have clarified this - promise!

--------------------------------------
Many thanks for your help.....

BRYAN FROM DOWN-UNDER

There are precious few Einsteins
among us. Most brilliance arises
from ordinary people working
together in extraordinary ways
- Roger von Oech

fr0gm@n
Veteran

Jun 25, 2008, 10:10 PM

Post #44 of 53 (1548 views)
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Re: [Bryan G] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

It may be a little different for PAL land than for us here in NTSC land. I checked the Canon AU website and the US website. Here in America ours will shoot 60i, 30F and 24F. The 24F is actually true 24P just named differently. On the AU Canon site it says it will shoot in 50i and 25F. The 25F would be like us shooting 24F. The "F" would be the same as "P" on the canon.

Are there no places in AU where you can get used equipment and find a lightly used FX1? Are there any video forums specific to AU with a trading post. I can't imagine no one there has a FX1 for sale.

If you went with the Canon you can just set it up simple and use it from there without having to get crazy. There are a few settings on the cam you need to make when you get it to get it started right. You could adapt to the cam pretty quick because much of your shooting will be in controlled lighting situations so it would be easy to set up. Jerome or I could give you a hand after you have played with it a while.

I would still look for a used FX1 if you can find one.

How about this one on ebay. Seller looks reputable right there in AU.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is this price good for there.

Why does a gorilla have big nostrils.......cause it has big fingers.

frog blog

Bryan G
User

Jun 25, 2008, 10:50 PM

Post #45 of 53 (1542 views)
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Re: [fr0gm@n] XM2/GL2 - is it good enuf for me? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

It may be a little different for PAL land than for us here in NTSC land. I checked the Canon AU website and the US website. Here in America ours will shoot 60i, 30F and 24F. The 24F is actually true 24P just named differently. On the AU Canon site it says it will shoot in 50i and 25F. The 25F would be like us shooting 24F. The "F" would be the same as "P" on the canon. GREAT - THANKS PHILIP

Are there no places in AU where you can get used equipment and find a lightly used FX1? Are there any video forums specific to AU with a trading post. I can't imagine no one there has a FX1 for sale. I WILL START SEARCHING

If you went with the Canon you can just set it up simple and use it from there without having to get crazy. There are a few settings on the cam you need to make when you get it to get it started right. You could adapt to the cam pretty quick because much of your shooting will be in controlled lighting situations so it would be easy to set up. Jerome or I could give you a hand after you have played with it a while. GREAT - THANKS A LOT

I would still look for a used FX1 if you can find one. WILL DO

How about this one on ebay. Seller looks reputable right there in AU. ITS A DEFINITE POSSIBILITY. I THINK THE BEACHTEK AND THE JUICE LINK ARE ONLY AROUND $350 SO YES, THIS TYPE OF CONFIGURATIONS LOOKS INTERESTING AND PROBABLY VERY GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY. THANKS VERY MUCH FOR THAT LEAD. DOESN'T DO 24P MIND YOU.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is this price good for there. Many thanks for your help Philip Cheers, Bryan

--------------------------------------
Many thanks for your help.....

BRYAN FROM DOWN-UNDER

There are precious few Einsteins
among us. Most brilliance arises
from ordinary people working
together in extraordinary ways
- Roger von Oech

fr0gm@n
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Jun 25, 2008, 11:00 PM

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Bryan G
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Jun 27, 2008, 8:03 PM

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fr0gm@n
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Bryan G
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fr0gm@n
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