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Home: Video University Forums: Digital Photography for Videographers:
Post deleted by Brackish

 

 


Brackish
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Jan 19, 2007, 5:24 AM

Post #1 of 17 (956 views)
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Colvin ADTR
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Jan 19, 2007, 6:21 AM

Post #2 of 17 (952 views)
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Re: [Brackish] A different kind of way to make their album: No proofs [In reply to] Can't Post

That technique's about a year old. It was brought up on Gary Fong's forums long ago. The idea is to predesign so that you make the customer give up stuff rather than work to a budget and it puts you in control as the creator rather than as paid help. I don't do proofs. They pay for my expertise in making a professional album or image.


Brackish
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Jan 19, 2007, 6:38 AM

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Colvin ADTR
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Jan 19, 2007, 6:43 AM

Post #4 of 17 (949 views)
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Re: [Brackish] A different kind of way to make their album: No proofs [In reply to] Can't Post

I shoot what I need but don't sell on number of photos. I predesign the album according to what sort of collection they are after, they can buy all the images separately. I don't print anything until they have made their choices. Project or screenshow. No approval, only choice. I am the expert. That is my approach. Have a look at what Stan on ourppa says about trust.


Jeko
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Jan 19, 2007, 9:18 AM

Post #5 of 17 (942 views)
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Re: [Brackish] A different kind of way to make their album: No proofs [In reply to] Can't Post

I too can attest that this approach works well...

I'm getting better with each album at trying to hit the bride's desires the first time. A few were ordered as is, but there is generally a bit of tweaking to the album. I find that it is very hard for bride's to cut back if I already have a 80-side draft in fron of them... and they usually order albums that are bigger than what they initially planned.

The issue is to keep them moving to completion. I push album sale, and not image reprints. So, I give clients the image jpegs AFTER album is ordered for them to reproduce freely. Prior to that, they have online gallery and a proof magazine to work from. Sure, a few drag it out --but our images are generally online by Monday afternoon, and an album draft is completed by Wednesday. Album ordering is completed when they return from honeymoon while they are still basking in the glow of their wedding.

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.


Jenn M
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Jan 19, 2007, 11:46 AM

Post #6 of 17 (930 views)
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Re: [Colvin ADTR] A different kind of way to make their album: No proofs [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Colvin

I know of a few photog who are doing this approach in our area as well. In fact, I've had some brides come in and balk at it, which makes me wary to go that route. But I suppose it's a matter of making up your mind to do it and then taking a stand - "This is what I do, take it or leave it" - to varying degrees, I guess. On the other hand, some couples appreciate it b/c they admit they don't know the first thing about designing an album or what to pick.

I figure it's simliar to editing the video. We don't offer preview copies - couples don't see the footage until they get their final copy - we edit according to what we feel is their taste and personality, which comes after spending the day with them and several conversations or meetings in which we discussed such things. Right now, I feel confident that I can edit a couple's video to appropriately reflect their personality and experience from the day. And many have told me, after getting their video, that I hit the nail on the head.

Now I suppose I have to work on getting that confidence with album design, which I believe will come fairly easily, especially after a few experiences. But even so far, with the engagement sessions we've done, I seem to pick the many of the same images as favorites that the couple likes as well.

On the other hand, sometimes they shock me and choose something waaaay different than what I expected, and I realize that with photography, it's quite different b/c they have far more time to evaluate the image than on video. Since the still image just sits their - their expression will never change. The shape of their face, the bulge under their chin, etc. is frozen in time. So I think most people tend to be a little more critical (espeically of themselves) when it comes to a still image. Again, this makes me a little wary of doing all the choosing.

How does this sound (my current plan of action):

I design a mock-up, send them the preview with one opportunity to change or add images. They sign off on it and it goes to print...


Jenn M
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Jan 19, 2007, 11:49 AM

Post #7 of 17 (928 views)
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Re: [Jeko] A different kind of way to make their album: No proofs [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
So, I give clients the image jpegs AFTER album is ordered for them to reproduce freely.



Does anyone ever question you as to why they have to wait? If so, what is your typical answer? Do you offer any packages that don't require an album purchase?

Currently I have it set up where they purchase the album later, after the wedding. I admit, this was because I didn't want to push album sales - not right now, anyway. I can definitely see how your approach would work well for your goals.


Jenn M
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Jan 19, 2007, 11:51 AM

Post #8 of 17 (927 views)
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Re: [Brackish] A different kind of way to make their album: No proofs [In reply to] Can't Post

Another thing I keep reading about is online proofing only. No printed proofs - or they buy the printed proofs separately. Seems like it would make things a lot easier.


Colvin ADTR
Enthusiast

Jan 19, 2007, 1:11 PM

Post #9 of 17 (915 views)
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Re: [Jenn M] A different kind of way to make their album: No proofs [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't send out any images.
1. they will try to scan them
2. they will take ages deciding.
Better to get them in the studio for an evening with your predesign, look after them and help them build the best album Wink you know what I'm saying. Treat them well but get that order in quickly. It is just as you say, you are the pro, you know best: they come to you as an expert, they buy you and your image over a jobbing photog.


Jenn M
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Jan 19, 2007, 1:17 PM

Post #10 of 17 (912 views)
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Re: [Colvin ADTR] A different kind of way to make their album: No proofs [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh, so you design a mock up and have them come in for the 'approval' process? I had wanted to somehow do it online. Not hardcopy. I figured they would respond quicker and it may be more convenient? No?


Jeko
Enthusiast


Jan 19, 2007, 1:24 PM

Post #11 of 17 (910 views)
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Re: [Jenn M] A different kind of way to make their album: No proofs [In reply to] Can't Post

They don't need to question why I hold the images until the album is ordered.... I tell them. It is to keep things moving towards the album completion and it works pretty well. I do get online print oreders from out-of-towners or those who don't want to wait for the new couple to finalize their album.

I offer packages with a basic size/quality album & image files, OR packages without (where they must order prints separately or buy the image files). The majority are wanting album, and then tend to upsize after. The draft makes it very hard to scale the album back. This is what would take so long if they were not pushed to getting images.

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.


Colvin ADTR
Enthusiast

Jan 19, 2007, 1:51 PM

Post #12 of 17 (906 views)
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Re: [Jenn M] A different kind of way to make their album: No proofs [In reply to] Can't Post

still no hard copy. Show them on the monitor or projector. My aim is to avoid all extra printing costs, so it is all virtual until the money is handed over. TBH I am more interested in selling large wall paintings than albums so that is where I put the attention. Get them in, give them the screening, which is their "approval" and then help them decide which pages they have to sacrifice or buy. I suppose it might work better with an actual print but see my reasons above. I might consider getting a copy made if I thought I could sell it to them as a display album at a later date and get my money back that way.


Scott Brooks
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Jan 19, 2007, 3:34 PM

Post #13 of 17 (902 views)
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Re: [Colvin ADTR] A different kind of way to make their album: No proofs [In reply to] Can't Post

It's been around for a VERY long time. More than likely the person being referred to is Jeff Ascough. You can google and find out what he's about.

There are a LOT of photographers, especially from Britain, that are now doing this, but this is far from anything new.


Brackish
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Jan 19, 2007, 9:26 PM

Post #14 of 17 (890 views)
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Colvin ADTR
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Jan 20, 2007, 1:51 AM

Post #15 of 17 (859 views)
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Re: [Brackish] A different kind of way to make their album: No proofs [In reply to] Can't Post

That works but how long are they going to take picking? Most of them won't even look at the pix until after honeymoon, so it could be at least a month before you get an answer. Then, of course, they want it done right now, no matter how busy your season has got in the meantime Mad. If you predesign, you can get it finalised in a few days and hopefully add in a few page orders instead of 1 or 2 prints. Reports, I have read, suggest that this method can double average sales and only 1% even ask for swap outs.


Scott Brooks
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Jan 20, 2007, 4:11 AM

Post #16 of 17 (854 views)
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Re: [Colvin ADTR] A different kind of way to make their album: No proofs [In reply to] Can't Post

I want to get them out asap. I have the following clause in my contract.


Albums Expiration date: If album selection and final approval are not made by the client within 90 days of the event date, any album products will be delivered to the client without further client input and the client waives the right to make changes .


Jeko
Enthusiast


Jan 21, 2007, 1:27 AM

Post #17 of 17 (824 views)
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Re: [Brackish] A different kind of way to make their album: No proofs [In reply to] Can't Post

Really NO problem if clients choose very different pics and layout from our initial design. They indicate image to swap and we swap it.... it's a piece of digital cake. The images are all numbered (online), and they merely indicate the page album number and tell us to which image to change. Why is that so bad??

I think they are glad to have something as a starting point for discussion at least. Oh, but do put a limit to the revisions in your contract to assure that the flip-flop of images doesn't happen too long. Ours is set at three --after which they would be charged an editing fee. The most we've done is two, though one or none is the majority of revisions.

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.