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Home: Video University Forums: Digital Photography for Videographers:
Basic question about sharpening

Brackish
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Jun 18, 2007, 3:46 AM

Post #1 of 14 (927 views)
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Basic question about sharpening	Can't Post

Hi guys.

When I'm doing the final sharpening for the file to
be delivered to the client, am I supposed to be
looking at the image at 100% size? Or is it okay
to be doing the sharpening with the image set to
"fit to window".

This question comes about because ... I sharpened up
an image of about 3500 X 2900 by looking at it "fit to window".
It took a lot of sharpening to get it looking right. When
I looked at just the subject's face at 100%, the
fit-to-window sharpening was way too much and had to be
pulled way back.
I'm wondering if the fit-to-window involves some sort
of Windows scaling, which really may be making the image
blurry so that it looks to me like it needs more sharpening.

Does 100% size mean the actual true size? Or is this
a zoom in on just a small bit of the image, making
it bigger than it actually is?

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

DarrenS
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Jun 18, 2007, 8:40 AM

Post #2 of 14 (916 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Basic question about sharpening [In reply to]	Can't Post

It must be 100% when sharpening. 100% zoom means 'one pixel on the monitor equals one dot in the image'. In other words a one-to-one ratio; true actual size.

Postal Boy
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Jun 18, 2007, 8:48 AM

Post #3 of 14 (910 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Basic question about sharpening [In reply to]	Can't Post

100% means actual pixels, without any resizing to fit the window. Notice, also, that you can duplicate a layer sometimes and when it is in "fit to window" mode (or not 100%) you can toggle the layer copy off and on and see a "pixel shift", but when you zoom in and toggle it you notice that there isn't a shift at all.

When not at 100% view the program attempts to adjust the image to fit in the size you are displaying. Just keep an eye on the rulers when in 100% view and you can see what is in 1 inch of the final print. A lot of times I just adjust the image so that the rulers on the screen match a ruler in the real world. That way I know how big it will be when printed. The program does resample better at some sizes, though. Odd percentages seem to show more artifacts on the screen. 50% is usually pretty clean. That does NOT mean that some resampling isn't taking place, though. I would be pretty conservative about sharpening images, anyway. It doesn't take a lot. And if the original image was a JPG off of the camera then sharpening has already been done by the camera itself. Only RAW images come to the computer with no pre-sharpening.

-Postal

Jenn M
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Jun 19, 2007, 12:06 AM

Post #4 of 14 (890 views)
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Re: [Postal Boy] Basic question about sharpening [In reply to]	Can't Post

I've been having some issues with sharpening. For prints, we were skipping any sharpening, as my understanding is the lab (in our case, Bay PHoto or Miller's) applies sharpening according to the size of the print.

Anyone know - is this the best thing to do?

thanks
-Jenn M

Sparky
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Jun 19, 2007, 3:33 AM

Post #5 of 14 (886 views)
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Re: [Jenn M] Basic question about sharpening [In reply to]	Can't Post

Jenn ... I've seen a bit of a trend lately to pull back on the sharpening ... as in leave it out. Of course it all comes down to personal preference.

After I resize and crop for my prints I use Kevin Kubota's Magic Sharp, which takes into consideration the size of the file when it sharpens.

I would just double check with the lab and see whether or not they do sharpen and then go from there.

Brackish
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Jun 19, 2007, 6:30 AM

Post #6 of 14 (879 views)
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Re: [DarrenS] Basic question about sharpening [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

It must be 100% when sharpening.

Thanks for the tip, Darren. I'm more confident now in my sharpening.
I find I can use much less sharpening then when I was
doing it with the whole picture reduced to fit into the
window. Some pics I'm going to have to go back
and re-sharpen, where I had done it not using
the 100% setting.

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Brackish
Veteran

Jun 19, 2007, 6:33 AM

Post #7 of 14 (878 views)
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Re: [Postal Boy] Basic question about sharpening [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

100% means actual pixels, without any resizing to fit the window.

Hi, Postal. It seems like you'd have to have a Glen-Elliott-size monitor to view a 10 megapixel image completely at 100%. On my monitor, when it does "fit to window", it's something like 25% of size or maybe even less.

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Brackish
Veteran

Jun 19, 2007, 8:11 AM

Post #8 of 14 (875 views)
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Re: [Jenn M] Basic question about sharpening [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Anyone know - is this the best thing to do?

Hi, Jenn.

I don't know about this from from dealing with the
companies, but just in general, I'd be leery about
going with companies that change your images - unless
you're working on the "high volume low prices"
business plan.

Reason I say this is I have found that images vary
quite a bit on how much sharpening they need (or
can take) depending upon how sharp they are to
begin with. For example, ones that were shot
quite sharp don't need - and can't handle without
looking grainy - as much post sharpening as images
where you may have missed spot-on focus.

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Postal Boy
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Jun 19, 2007, 8:42 AM

Post #9 of 14 (871 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Basic question about sharpening [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well, you don't see the WHOLE image at 100%...just a small fraction. The ruler at 100% (monitors are about 72dpi I believe) makes an inch run around 5 inches across the screen. I just keep an eye on the ruler. Then, if I want to see what it will look like (size, anyway) I zoom out until an inch on the ruler equals an inch on the screen. I don't use that for editing, just for cropping and comparison.

-Postal

Jenn M
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Jun 19, 2007, 10:29 AM

Post #10 of 14 (864 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Basic question about sharpening [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hey Brack

From what I've read, you can fix the problem spots/images. But for lab sharpening, a 11 x 14, for example, will require different sharpening from a 4 x 6 or 5 x 7; therefore it is best to let the lab (a pro lab, of course) apply appropriate sharpening. That is, unless you choose 'no correction' then I believe it is ' as is.' But I've found lab color correction, etc. to be quite helpful for prints.

Of course, there is still plenty I don't know yet, so I'm always looking for input.

Thanks
Jenn M

Postal Boy
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Jun 19, 2007, 10:53 AM

Post #11 of 14 (862 views)
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Re: [Jenn M] Basic question about sharpening [In reply to]	Can't Post

The only problem I have with lab CC work is that when I adjust the images I adjust the skin tones to match certain values to give me a warmer/cooler look. If they over-ride them, then sure the image may look good, but it isn't what I was looking for with an edit. Some skin tones look better with different CMYK values than the lab correction can give them. I have been sending test prints in with no CC through MPIX to try to validate my CC skills/work flow. If I want a paler skin tone, I want it to print that way. If I want a warmer skin tone, the same. If I don't care, or am uncertain about my CC on an image, then I let them do it and it works out fine. I don't know if I would send one out without sharpening, though. I am not sure what the lab policies on sharpening are.

Jenn M
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Jun 19, 2007, 11:04 AM

Post #12 of 14 (861 views)
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Re: [Postal Boy] Basic question about sharpening [In reply to]	Can't Post

Oh, yeah - me too. I've submitted several images with a request for no CC. That's one thing I like about the Bay Photo ROES, when ordering their images. They will CC all the images, unless you request them not too on any specfic image.

So I can put 3 images on one page, but request they do not CC one of the 3 b/c I may be going for a certain effect, and b/c it's not flattened, they can do that.

But for proofs, I dig the CC. It's a little more expensive. But boy, it saved my butt two times already. I had to shoot a ceremony in a fugly recep venue w/ mixed lighting of daylight, flourescent, and the occasional flash (procession, recession). Eek gawds. But when I got the proof images back that THEY correct, they looked perfectly fine. Saved me some time, too, b/c the first time around, I agonized over the color and still couldn't get it right. ( I actually had to shoot in this place twice already - sigh)

Every lab is different. Often times, they have their file requirements and guidelines listed somewhere on their website or in their info. MPix is more of a consumer lab, so I do not recall reading such info. But I know Miller's (MPix parent company) has guidelines and they do a fine job w/ the sharpening. As does Bay Photo, and the best I've seen yet, was ProDPI. My prints from them looked awesome - I was able to do a side-by-side comparison w/ Bay.
-Jenn

Jenn M
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Jun 19, 2007, 11:05 AM

Post #13 of 14 (860 views)
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Re: [Postal Boy] Basic question about sharpening [In reply to]	Can't Post

By the way, the one mistake I was making was not adding any sharpening to our web images. Now we have an action just for that. They look much better now.

Brackish
Veteran

Jun 20, 2007, 5:40 AM

Post #14 of 14 (832 views)
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Re: [Jenn M] Basic question about sharpening [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

By the way, the one mistake I was making was not adding any sharpening to our web images.

I have found that the amount of web sharpening that is ideal
varies from picture to picture, with those the most
sharp going in calling for the least web sharpening.
The sharp ones going in can be easily over-sharpened
for web.

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."