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Home: Video University Forums: Digital Photography for Videographers:
Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!!

szerangue
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Aug 30, 2006, 11:38 AM

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Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!!	Can't Post

Well, I tried to join the Digital Wedding Forum but apparently you cannot just be an "aspiring" photographer, you must be a practicing photographer. Either that or once they found out I was a wedding videographer (I was upfront about everything) they made a decision to not let me in. Anyone else have any problems with trying to get information about photography after being a wedding videographer?
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE

Scott Brooks
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Aug 30, 2006, 11:59 AM

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Re: [szerangue] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well ... I will say this ... they don't want to be like photo.net, dpreview, Fred Miranda or any of the other free sites. They really do strive to keep the site for professional photographers. There are some that advocate pushing the yearly fees much, MUCH higher to keep newer people out. It's far from an exclusive club ... but they do try and go through a process to make sure the person is a photographer.

The problem has nothing to do with the fact that you do video. There are many on the forum that either used to do video or still do video. The problem is that you (don't know this for sure) may not even own a camera. When I joined I had already added photography, which technically was several years ago.

Sorry ... that's probably bad on our part ... just didn't even think about that end of it. In the meantime ... take a look at the above places I've listed and hang out there for a while to get some of the basics. Once you're offering photography AND you've added it to your website ... reapply to DWF.

szerangue
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Aug 30, 2006, 1:49 PM

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Re: [Sparky] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I wasn't really offended by them not letting me join. But the thing is, I am serious about this. Although its not much, I have already have about $3500 invested in camera equipment (Canon 30D, Rebel XT, Speedlight 580, Canon 17-55mm IS, Tamaron 70-200mm, etc... ) I really want to learn but I guess its the old classic, come back when you get some experience but you can only get the work if you have some experience!!! I know when I started in video, VU was very good to me. Others in the business helped me out, answered my questions, were very supportive. Even the local competition was very open to a newcomer. But with photography, I don't see it that way. My guess is, there are way more photographers out there and the competition is stiff. I sent an email to a local photog that I've worked some weddings with before buying the 30D. I wanted his advice on what to look for when purchasing a camera. He never even responded to my email. For the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he does not check his email from his website and he never got the email. But I believe, had it been a fellow videographer, they would have been more than willing to help out.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE

Xray
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Aug 30, 2006, 2:35 PM

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Re: [szerangue] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Check your PM

Marcin
_______________________________________________________________
If it's sent by ship then it's a cargo, if it's sent by road then it's a shipment.

Scott Brooks
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Aug 30, 2006, 3:49 PM

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Re: [szerangue] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/index.php Excellent Canon site with everything from flash useage to weddings and portraits. Level of users is professionals to beginners. When I don't want to sound TOO stupid then I go to this site.

But you make a good point ... videographers whine and complain about all the people buying a camera and doing weddings for $500 and then point out that people are spending $5000 on photos. Take photography and multiply that by about 25.

I'm in a little town of 20,000 and in our YP we have close to 30 "photographers" listed. Maybe 4 to 6 have a website? Starting at $1500 with no album, I'm the second highest photographer and I probably have the least experience.

I consider it much easier to break into photography than video ... and I think that's what worries the professional photographers ... ones that make a living from photography.

Guess what ... some are calling for PPA and other groups to start promoting Professional photgraphers. Sound familiar? Wink

szerangue
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Aug 30, 2006, 4:17 PM

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Re: [Sparky] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yes, I thought I was making a good point and I guess I was. I know there are a lot more photographers in my area than there are videographers. But then again, video only gets about 30% of the market, where photography gets 100%. But even at 30%, there is still more weddings than there are videographers. I guess with 100% there is still too many photographers. I have thought about calling the photographer I have used in the past for portraits and who is a very nice guy and asking him to bring me in as an intern, but I am afraid it might cause some animosity. I think it would be easy to promote myself as a wedding photographer, but I need to have a little better understanding of my camera and exposures and compositions before I do that. I am not worried that I can do wedding photography, I just want to be sure I can produce at least an above average product. All I need now is time to practice, and time is hard to come by.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE

Scott Brooks
Veteran

Aug 30, 2006, 4:51 PM

Post #7 of 25 (1812 views)
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Re: [szerangue] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Not according to the PPA. The numbers being presented over the last few years have suggested that only 50% of the weddings are utilizing a professional photographer. I once questioned who was considered "professional" and was told anyone that was paid to shoot the event.

I have thought about calling the photographer I have used in the past for portraits and who is a very nice guy and asking him to bring me in as an intern, but I am afraid it might cause some animosity. I think it would be easy to promote myself as a wedding photographer, but I need to have a little better understanding of my camera and exposures and compositions before I do that. I am not worried that I can do wedding photography, I just want to be sure I can produce at least an above average product. All I need now is time to practice, and time is hard to come by.

I was lucky ... I found a guy 30 minutes from here that let me second shoot with him last year and the experience was very valuable. One reason he let me tag along ... he knew that I didn't want to be one of those $500 photographers and welcomes people that are serious about shooting. His prices begin at $2500.

After you're more comfortable with your camera ask a family if you can take some portraits to get them up on your site. Find a someone that either needs their senior photo taken ... or someone that looks that age ... give them a free sitting and CD with the files in exchange for a model release.

As for obtaining more info ... I've spent hours on the various websites ... as much or more than if I had taken a class, but I've learned a lot. The information is there.

BTW ... doesn't B&H have a video available on the 20D or 30D that explains the proper use of the camera? If they don't ... I think Elite Video does.

RustyB
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Aug 30, 2006, 5:36 PM

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Re: Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm still not sure what it is so profound they could have to be protective of on a photo forum? I guess I have an overly simplistic view of the technical side of photography, since I only do it for fun, and do videography for a living. (or try)

The photo forums I read usually bore me to tears within seconds. They seem to be mostly for posting rumors about the new Canon or Nikon body that will be 122.7 MegaPixels and shoot cleanly at ISO6000. And then the usual posting of photos looking for praise from fellow photographers, without really posting anything helpful to each other, like they do on VU.

But I guess if their forum does hold some magical key to the success at getting top dollar for your photos, it'd be worth it. There are THOUSANDS of WEDDING photographers in my town, and most of them don't seem to be charging anymore than I do for video. And out of thousands, it seems to be against all odds that I've worked with a select few on multiple weddings.

Faith Poison Wedding Films Blog
Intergalactic Award-Winning Epic-Cinematic Wedding New-Doc Style Indie Bridal Movies on Hi-Definition Blu-Ray Disc

szerangue
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Aug 30, 2006, 5:50 PM

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Re: [Sparky] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Using the camera is not the problem. I feel comfortable with the controls, just need some practice. The bigger issue is having a client in front of you and directing them to get a great shot. I would say a lot of that is experience. I once said to a photog friend of mine while he stood behind the camera and his assistant prepped the talent and positioned them just right and then he took the picture, "You have the easy job!!!" He told me something, I can't remember exactly, but it helped me to know that he actually had the most important job, taking the picture. I know now that you have to know when to push the button, when the talent is feeling comfortable and being themselves, how to look at all of the talent at the same time to make sure no one is closing thier eyes or something else. That seems like the bigger job and the one that requires the most talent.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE

Scott Brooks
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Aug 30, 2006, 6:06 PM

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Re: [RustyB] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Must be something pretty darned good about it. They're getting a hundred bucks a pop and there's a good number of people there that feel the price of admission should go even higher. All the time videographers cry about $25 for a year. Why pay when I can get it for free on another site. That seems to be the attitude and there's nothing wrong with that if it makes you happy.

DWF used to be a free forum, but since going paid the BS level dropped and questions like "which iso setting should I use" have vanished.

Take VU ... I now spend more time on VU than I ever did before simply for the fact that a measly twenty-five bucks kept those that just stopped by to chat about other crap ... off the boards. Heck ... I paid and do very little video these days.

DWF does have a 30 day trial set-up, but I think you have to be approved even for that. It's not all that exclusive but that doesn't mean that everyone will be allowed in ... at least not right away.

AlanB
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Aug 30, 2006, 6:25 PM

Post #11 of 25 (1798 views)
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Re: [Sparky] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

I consider it much easier to break into photography than video ... and I think that's what worries the professional photographers ... ones that make a living from photography.

Hi Sparky, what is it about photography that you think makes it easier to break into? If you were trying to get into photography after doing video for awhile, what would you say are the best ways to do it? I hope that is not too loaded of a question. Wink

Alan

Brackish
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Aug 30, 2006, 7:05 PM

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RustyB
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Aug 30, 2006, 7:08 PM

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Re: [Brackish] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I guess I have an overly simplistic view of the technical side of photography, since I only do it for fun, and do videography for a living. (or try)

Weren't you going to start advertising that you do photo, too? Never did get that ad going?

Yep, I actually advertise it now, but can't get anyone to bite without any sample wedding photos to show them. Once I get the last of my videos finished I'm gonna go do some free wedding photos. I have no desire to apprentice under someone else. I don't work well with others. Laugh

Faith Poison Wedding Films Blog
Intergalactic Award-Winning Epic-Cinematic Wedding New-Doc Style Indie Bridal Movies on Hi-Definition Blu-Ray Disc

Brackish
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Aug 30, 2006, 8:45 PM

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RustyB
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Aug 30, 2006, 9:26 PM

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Re: [Brackish] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Have you had anyone contact you about doing photo for
their wedding? How does the conversation go? Do they
want to meet to see a sample photo album?

Actually, I've never made it past the part where they ask for my price list. I've been quoting $999 for wedding+unlimited reception coverage...which is still apparently overpriced for the average wedding photographer. I don't have anything on my website to convince them otherwise, that I might be worth more than that. I can, however, sell videos for $999....that seems to be the going rate. I'm out of business again at $1499. Laugh

Faith Poison Wedding Films Blog
Intergalactic Award-Winning Epic-Cinematic Wedding New-Doc Style Indie Bridal Movies on Hi-Definition Blu-Ray Disc

szerangue
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Aug 30, 2006, 9:42 PM

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Re: [Sparky] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ok, now I get it.... I was trying to do the 30 day free trial and was denied... so if I were to have spent the $100, they would have gladly accepted my money and welcomed me in?
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE

RustyB
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Aug 30, 2006, 9:47 PM

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Re: [szerangue] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Ok, now I get it.... I was trying to do the 30 day free trial and was denied... so if I were to have spent the $100, they would have gladly accepted my money and welcomed me in?

Money talks! Cool

Faith Poison Wedding Films Blog
Intergalactic Award-Winning Epic-Cinematic Wedding New-Doc Style Indie Bridal Movies on Hi-Definition Blu-Ray Disc

Scott Brooks
Veteran

Aug 30, 2006, 9:54 PM

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Re: [AlanB] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Alan

The digital age has brought a huge influx of photographers. We thought we had it bad as videographers? It's nothing compared with the photographers. I mentioned that we had about 25 to 30 in the YP. That's not just my town but probably an area encompassing about a 45 mile radius.

That number doesn't even begin to include all that do not list in the YP and just do it by referral from friends & family.

So with all that why is it easier? My thoughts are that there are so many other events that you cover with photo but don't with video.

I own a fast food joint ... have for the last 26 years. I have some high school kids working for me and I want to get into the senior market. I asked one of the gals if she had her senior photos taken yet (it's getting late for them) and she had not. I made her a deal ... we did a free session. In return she gets a CD with images, a proof book to take to school and she purchases any prints from me at regular price ... assuming she doesn't want the hassle of printing them herself.

In return she's taking wallet sized photos of herself to pass out to friends. Message on the wallet tells other seniors to bring in the photo and receive 8 free wallets with their order. It may or may not work.

I'll grant you this is a poor time of the year to start marketing to seniors, but I would rather start now and then add to it in the spring rather than start from scratch in the spring.

Family portraits ... I took my accountant and his family out to a park for some portraits. It gives me experience and gives me word of mouth.

I'm involved with the community theatre and did free head shots for one of their productions.

I've said this before, but if you're in a larger area check into Craig's List. People are always looking to get a bargain there.

Most churches have couples getting married that really can't afford a photographer ... offer to do it free to build up your portfolio.

I just think that people in general are more interested in photography therefore providing more opportunities.

How many times other than a wedding does a family need a video? Almost never. Yeah ... there's dance recitals and maybe the class production (I've done photos for those as well) ... but on a personal level ... actual families, how many times do they need a videographer?

So yeah ... there are more photographers around, but also more work to be found.

Oh yeah ... BRIDAL SHOWS. My daughter has been assisting me at bridal shows for years. We did three of them this year and my daughter and I both left thinking ... wow ... it's nice to actually have people stopping by our booth. Traffic is much higher there than with video.

Once you get some something put together then get a decent website put together. I got the lowest paid membership to Wedj ($49) and booked two jobs. One of them was $3000. It took me 15 years to get a $3000 wedding for video and only 6 months for photo.

Ask Jeff to chime in here because he's doing some amazing stuff.

Scott Brooks
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Aug 30, 2006, 9:58 PM

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Re: [szerangue] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

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Ok, now I get it.... I was trying to do the 30 day free trial and was denied... so if I were to have spent the $100, they would have gladly accepted my money and welcomed me in?

Not at all. They check every single person that applies whether it's for the trial or paid. Believe me ... they do not need your money. They have a huge membership. (Comparatively speaking to anything weva had or has.)

BTW ... they also run their convention in April in conjunction with WPPI (I think that's the one). I hope to go this year because there is some amazing talent there.

Instead I believe it's a matter of getting yourself established.

szerangue
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Aug 30, 2006, 10:04 PM

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Re: [Sparky] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

DWF does have a 30 day trial set-up, but I think you have to be approved even for that. It's not all that exclusive but that doesn't mean that everyone will be allowed in ... at least not right away.

Sorry, I re-read your post, I see that you said the trial setup even has to be approved. I misunderstood.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE

Jenn M
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Aug 31, 2006, 3:57 PM

Post #21 of 25 (1725 views)
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Re: [Sparky] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I took your advice and finally joined. Partly I was curious to see if I would get in. But I get their Newsletter emailed to me all the time, probably b/c I did the free trial a while ago.

So now, I'm in. Let's see what havoc I can wreak over there. Tongue

Just kidding. I'll behave myself. I know they'll eat me alive if I don't. Angelic

Scott Brooks
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Aug 31, 2006, 4:05 PM

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Re: [Jenn M] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

I get their newsletter all the time. Actually it doesn't come out that frequently, but I've received two in the last week or so.

Ok Jenn ... just don't screw it up over there for the rest of us. When they talk about the vidiots ... let it go, breathe deep and let Brian turn your computer off before you have the chance to type.

Remember this ... there's nothing being said over there about videographers that you haven't said about them. Wink

Jenn M
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Aug 31, 2006, 4:12 PM

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Re: [Sparky] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ha - you got that backwards, my friend. I have to turn off the computer on Brian. Believe me, I show more restraint than he - especially if it's in the a.m.

Also, I would probably agree with some of the thing they have to say about vidiots. I cannot stand an intrusive videographer anymore than I can stand an intrusive photographer b/c I know I have to go into the venue the week after the maniac with the huge lights and mic on the dance floor and do damage control. I know that I have to convince brides every week that we aren't going to keep shots in the video of them picking their nose b/c they saw that in their friend's $500 unedited video. And I know I have to convince potential clients that contemporary wedding videos do not have to be a 2 hour long cheez-fest.

I'll behave, I promise. I've done well on Fred Miranda. There was a videography post on there, and I held my tongue. I did PM one guy, though, and thank him for being the voice of reason when he said 'not all videographers are bad' and he actually appreciates some lighting b/c it helps him focus.

See, I can be good. Smile

Alan R
Enthusiast

Feb 26, 2007, 9:30 PM

Post #24 of 25 (1378 views)
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Re: [szerangue] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Looks like I am reopening this thread, but I just got rejected myself. After applying I got the following e-mail from The forum moderator:

Quote

It's really encouraging to see more and more people becoming interested in
wedding photography. We wish you the best of luck with your plans. With
your professional background, I'm sure that if you decide to provide
photography services, you'll be very successful! Unfortunately, though, I'm
afraid we can't grant you access to the DWF right at this time, but let me
explain why. The DWF is a forum for professional photographers who are
already actively working in their field. Our discussions actually range
from marketing, to business, to issues related to sustaining an income from
the business of photography. In other words, topics that are geared towards
professionals already actively working in their field. When you do decide
to officially begin offering photography coverage, though, please please
register again-- we would love to have you as a part of the DWF!

There are other active wedding photography forums on Fred Miranda, and Photo.net. Is DWF worth joining (if I ever meet their membership criteria)? As I mentioned above, they will not even let you see the forum if you are not a member (or have a trial membership).

BTW I was quite open about being a videographer. As previous posts on this thread indicate, that doesn't seem to be a factor, just the fact that I am not currently doing wedding photography for money.

I am doing a freebee photo shoot in May for one of our Video clients. After that I might start charging (we already have a small portfolio of shots that we have done for our DVD covers. So we are not that far off.

Alan Robinson
Bonnie Blink Productions

Scott Brooks
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Feb 26, 2007, 10:51 PM

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Re: [Alan R] Digital Wedding Forum Access DENIED!!! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Alan ...

In answer to your question about it being worth the price ... in my opinion, yes it is. And if they increased the membership amount I would pay that as well. There's another forum (maybe pro4um) that costs approximately $250. There is a third forum that I'm aware of ... $1000 to be a member.

DWF does not want to be a photographer's version of VU, WEVA, 4ever, or any other video place where people are asking basic questions and are just getting started. Not that there aren't more experienced people in all those organizations, but it doesn't exist to assist the newbies. While there are various levels to every profession and everyone has to start somewhere, they do attempt to serve those that are already in business.

It's not uncommon for someone to ask a question that even I think is really lame ... and if that happens, don't be surprised to see someone wonder out loud whether or not this person should be shooting a wedding.

I listed some forums in an earlier post that can answer many of your questions as you're getting going. You're obviously not a person that doesn't mind paying for the education if it's going to be worth it. After all ... you paid to be on VU.

I would suggest that once you get your business going that you do as they say ... reapply and take out the trial membership. As you know ... the fact that you do video has zero impact as to whether or not you're going to be admitted. There are actually quite a few videographers on there.

Is it worth it ... most definitely.