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Home: Video University Forums: Digital Photography for Videographers:
"Exclusive Photographer" clause + DJs shooting stills

Brackish
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May 24, 2007, 6:04 AM

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"Exclusive Photographer" clause + DJs shooting stills	Can't Post

Off hand, I don't see where this clause would be needed
but I've heard some do have it in the contract.
If there is really no time that this would be an
issue I'd rather not bother adding it.

What is the purpose of this? To protect print sales?

And I can't really see a client wanting to hire photogs from
different companies anyways so why bother?

Anyone have any feelings about or knowledge of this issue?

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

(This post was edited by Brackish on Jun 11, 2007, 6:03 PM)

videochicke
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May 24, 2007, 10:58 AM

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Re: [Brackish] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

It is not uncommon around here for a DJ to hire someone to snap pictures all night and make a slideshow for the guests to see before they leave, and have pics available for the guests to purchase. Some have a clue, and some really don't. I worked with one DJ at a church and he did whatever he pleased, including stepping on the altar when we were told not too. And the priest assumed he was with the photographer. He also took all the posed shots the photographer had set up. And he was all over the place at the reception and thus in a lot of the photographers shots. He circled the cake round and round and many key moments had him in the shots.
Julie

Brackish
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May 24, 2007, 11:59 AM

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Re: [videochicke] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

It is not uncommon around here for a DJ to hire someone to snap pictures all night and make a slideshow for the guests to see before they leave

What?!?!?!?!? Never have seen that around here. What do the photogs think about this? If the DJ gives the B&G the snaps this would tend to cut into the photog's print sales. Are a lot of the photogs by you including an Exclusive Photographer clause?

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Jeko
Enthusiast

May 24, 2007, 1:28 PM

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Re: [Brackish] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I've read this on another forum, but hadn't crossed photographers that employ this.... yet.

I would never use it myself as this contractual item may not legally be enforced (you can't restrict the rights of others in such a public location). I'd also be concerned about having that in a contract, as I wonder if an illegal requirement could invalidate the entire contract. I also find it simply too rude.

As long as guests/vendors are courteous, I see no need to be restricting (remember that I am making my proffit primarily off the album and not image sales). As a videographer, i use still images in my work. Could the photographer then restrict me from doing my job as I normally would?? (As a courtesy, I never sold images direct if another photgrapher is providing coverage).

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.

Brackish
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May 24, 2007, 1:33 PM

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Re: [Jeko] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

You don't have the DJs shooting stills by you, do you Jeko?

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Jeko
Enthusiast

May 24, 2007, 1:47 PM

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Re: [Brackish] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I haven't noticed DJ's in particular to be honest.

They are not around for the prep and ceremony. When reception events happen, there is a flock of a dozen photographer-guests popping off shots. I've even had guests ask me for my image files, for when they build their own "surprise gift-album" to give the couple. I kindly decline, and see their print orders off my web-service later... even though the B&G get images after finallizing album with me (pre-paid entry level album included in package).

I am thinking that photographers that are bothered by that are still trying to proffit primarily off straight image sales.

Brack, where are you trying to get your proffit?

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.

Postal Boy
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May 24, 2007, 2:40 PM

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Re: [Jeko] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I figure that you don't lose print sales because you can build all of your prints into a package. Any extra prints purchased are gravy. You can even put a "print credit" into your package, and if they don't use it then it is on their heads (they paid for something they didn't use...kind of like all of these "rebates" I get on stuff I buy, but never quite get in the mail)

-Postal

Jeko
Enthusiast

May 24, 2007, 3:04 PM

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Re: [Postal Boy] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Surprisingly, the statisitcs show that print sales are much greater when clients have a print credit to start with... but again, I am not even pushing prints through the service. It is all on their own.

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.

Brackish
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May 24, 2007, 5:59 PM

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Re: [Jeko] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I am not even pushing prints through the service. It is all on their own.

Not sure I follow you here. You only provide the images
and they take care of all their own printing?

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Jeko
Enthusiast

May 24, 2007, 6:23 PM

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Re: [Brackish] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I upload images to the web (Picatge) for clients to review while we build their album (they also get a proof magazine if desired for the same purpose). Once the album is approved and final payment received (most upgrade to larger album), they will get all images on disk to reproduce freely. This way, few let the album design fall to the wayside as they have incentive to complete the design. In the meantime, family and friends often order images from which I get a payment.

Currently, my main goal is to get them an album they love. I may add a specific image sales level before images are released to the requirement in the future, but not yet. Perhaps a $500 requirement prior to giving image files and usage rights... or maybe a quantity of images tied to the sales volume over the first month or two after the wedding.

I also use Pictage.com for increased visibility in the wed-photo world. It seems to give some clout.

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.

Brackish
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May 26, 2007, 3:19 AM

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Re: [Jeko] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I guess until some need arises I'm not going to
bother with any Exclusive Photographer clause.

Sometimes I've seen where Uncle Charlie will
shoot some pics, almost like a second shooter,
but what can you do about him. And I suppose
these Exclusive Photographer clauses are
only for paid photogs anyways.

One time I had it where the DJ hired a video crew to
also shoot the ceremony along while I was also
doing a video but that hasn't made me
want to put in an Exclusive Videographer clause so ...

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Brackish
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Jun 10, 2007, 5:34 PM

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Re: [videochicke] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

It is not uncommon around here for a DJ to hire someone to snap pictures all night

Just had it happen: DJ taking stills during the reception.

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Brackish
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Jun 10, 2007, 5:39 PM

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Re: [Jeko] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I haven't noticed DJ's in particular to be honest.

Guess what, Jeko. Just shot stills at a reception and had the DJ also shooting stills. First time I've ever seen a DJ shooting stills - and it happens on my first outing as the official photographer. What luck! I'll probably post more about it later.

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Brackish
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Jun 11, 2007, 5:37 PM

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Re: [Postal Boy] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Okay. Here's the deal with these DJs I worked with.

There were three of them. Two of them would take
turns with the digital cam. Looked (from a distance)
like they were using a Rebel with kit lens and a 430 flash
angled at 45 degrees with a Stofen omnibounce.
During the formal dances (e.g. First, Parents, Wedding
Party) the DJs would go about tapping the dancers on the
shoulder to have them pose for a picture. Plus they
would shoot miscellaneous general dancing throughout
the night.

Their DJ package comes standard with photos of the reception.
What they do is burn the pics to a DVD as a photo montage
for viewing later on the client's TV. If the customer wants
to buy prints they can go to a website to make the order.
You can get the prints in various sizes plus have the pics on
refrigerator magnets, key chains, coffee mugs, etc.

I can see how, if you were a photog that relied on print
sales, you would not be too happy with what the DJs were
doing as it could cut into your print sales. I did see samples
of their work and all it was really is just snapshots - nothing
special at all - but they were shots that many
of the guests would not have gotten.

There were some times we were going for the same
shots but I just jumped in front of their cam if I
needed to. The bride only posed for me and seemed
to basically ignore the DJ photogs.

One problem I can see is the client getting
"flash fatigue" from not only being hit with the
hired pro's flash throughout the night but
also from the flash from the DJs. From the
client's point of view I really don't see this
setup of having the DJs shoot stills as being
a good idea.

Anyone have any thoughts on this all?

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

RustyB
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Jun 11, 2007, 6:42 PM

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Re: [Brackish] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think I would have an "exclusive photographer" clause exactly for what Brack describes. Even if I wasn't depending heavily on print sales, it would definitely affect the the amount of sales you made. I'd think it'd affect your referrals as well....a lot of people might have been annoyed by all the "photographers" flashing away in their face, and when they ask who the photographer was....you'll get the blame. I've got b*tched at repeatedly by guests and church ladies because they thought I was with the photographers.

I also know first hand how distracting a videographer can be while a photog is trying to take pictures, especially posed group pictures. Laugh

I can only imagine how difficult throwing in some extra photogs from a different company must make it. Shooting video, I cause guests to look at me instead of the photog, cause people to blink, etc, while these shots belong to the photog setting them up...not me. (although some videogs will adamantly argue that point Crazy

)

the People's Video Collective blog
wedding video and the means of production

DarrenS
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Jun 11, 2007, 6:48 PM

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Re: [Brackish] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I guess this proves the Disk Jockey job isn't a very difficult one.

Like anyone had any doubts. Laugh

Brackish
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Jun 11, 2007, 7:22 PM

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Re: [RustyB] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I'd think it'd affect your referrals as well....a lot of people might have been annoyed by all the "photographers" flashing away in their face, and when they ask who the photographer was....you'll get the blame.

And these DJs were shooting a lot more "in your face" than what I do. I've heard of one of these famous wedding photogs in Europe who says that he shoots alone with no second shooter because "one photographer is enough" ... that having more photogs becomes obtrusive.

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Brackish
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Jun 11, 2007, 7:27 PM

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Re: [DarrenS] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I guess this proves the Disk Jockey job isn't a very difficult one.

Like anyone had any doubts.

Like I said, Darren, the samples of their work were
nothing special at all. Not done artistically ... just snapshots.
A number of the sample shots were ones I (as the official
photog) wouldn't even show the client if they were
my shots - they would've been deleted.

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Shadow
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Jun 12, 2007, 2:13 PM

Post #19 of 20 (1313 views)
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Re: [videochicke] "Exclusive Photographer" clause: Any real reason to have it? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I"ve seen that too Julie. And usually they end up in front of my camera during speeches/dances. The ones I have run into aren't very professional about it.

__________________________

AbracadabraTV
User

Jun 21, 2007, 8:18 AM

Post #20 of 20 (1249 views)
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Re: [Brackish] "Exclusive Photographer" clause + DJs shooting stills [In reply to]	Can't Post

We have that clause and it's been meaningless to try to enforce on their "Special Day".
We do both video and photography and it's common for DJ's to shoot video on a consumer DVD camcorder and give the DVD to the B&G at the end of the reception. Or for a semi pro family member with a Canon 20D to be in our way all night. One DJ in demand even sells himself in with "you need to hire my wife to do your video otherwise I'll send my assistant to DJ your wedding." BTW she does a one camera 6 hour $600 type wedding. Try competing on price with that!
It's a downward spiral now that everyone watches the world through a viewfinder.
Best, Craig