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Home: Video University Forums: Digital Photography for Videographers:
I need to vent some good stuff for a change!

 

 


Jenn M
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Aug 31, 2006, 12:17 PM

Post #1 of 8 (440 views)
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I need to vent some good stuff for a change! Can't Post

Shane's DWF post hit some very interesting points - and I agree, I do believe it is more difficult for a videographer to come into the market over even a completely green aspiring photographer. Why? Perhaps b/c we have some advantage as we've had real shooting experience. We aren't as 'in awe' of the seasoned photographer. We already have a referral base of clients. Or is it that other photographers realize that we have an advantage over them, knowing both mediums and being able to provide both services well...

We met with a couple last night who said exactly that. They get it. They're an older couple, this is their second marriage, and they sat here and told us why video is so much more important and why we, offering both services, have an advantage over other companies who specialize in only one service. Needless to say, I asked the groom if he would be willing to do my sales calls for me! Wink

But they get it b/c they've been through it. The bride said she had a wedding album from her first marriage and she knows exactly where it went - in a drawer. They are a 'video-family', she said. Over the years, they've documented every milestone, every vacation, every family gathering with the camcorder and they watch those hi-8s far more often than they look at any photos. They paid to have all their old home movies converted to DVD. They get it.

The groom also went on to 'explain' to me that we have an advantage by offering both services b/c there is 'synergy' - exactly the word I've been using in my marketing and literature. One won't interfere with the other - instead, they will work together to get the best of both. I wanted to jump up and down and scream, "Yes! You get it!" They also said they've been to a good number of weddings where the photographers were, in their words, 'obnoxious' and pointed out that a majority of the photos those couples ended up with were unnecessary and hardly worth the distraction on the wedding day.

Like I said, if only he could do our sales calls for us. Doesn't matter though - it's hard to convince young couples of these things b/c they haven't lived life yet. This is usually the first really dramatic event in their life and they go overboard with traditional notions like photos b/c that's what they are 'supposed to do'.

Anyway, I'm so excited - we are doing our first photo-only job in October (well, it's for free - coverage only - but I'm calling it a job). It's a really small wedding - no dancing at the reception, dinner only. They were going to skip a professional photographer all together, but a videographer friend of theirs, who is doing the video as a 'gift' for them, hooked us up. We met with them earlier this week and they are really excited, and so am I. They even want to do engagement photos, and her family owns a horse farm, which is also where they got engaged (on one of the trails), so I suggested we do it there. She LOVED the idea and we're meeting in September. Finally, some samples! The ones we have are so scant and disjointed - taken on the sly while the photographer wasn't looking.

I'm also assisiting another photographer in September a few times - the only photographer who not only agreed to my request, but actually answered it. It's interesting, though, b/c she's far newer to the wedding industry than we are and I've already given her advice on contracts, etc. So, at least we are on somewhat of a level playing field. I find the newer photographers are a little less egocentric and more willing to share info as they are still somewhat excited about what they are doing.

So it's finally happening. finally. It's been frustrating b/c over the past few weeks we've met with at least 2 other couples who seemed interested in having us do both... until we didn't have any real samples to show. It's almost not fair b/c if a photographer were adding video, they could get away with not showing anything b/c who really cares about video. Problem is, most couples have much lower expectation of video and, once again, this works to the photographer's advantage.

But hopefully that will change. Like the groom said last night, "Within a year, I expect you to be so busy with this b/c you will be able to offer the superior product." I hope he's right.


szerangue
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Aug 31, 2006, 3:05 PM

Post #2 of 8 (426 views)
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Re: [Jenn M] I need to vent some good stuff for a change! [In reply to] Can't Post

I get it!!! I think you make really valid points. I talked to my assistant last night and discussed the possibility of doing both video and photography. All I need is some practice and some samples. Jenn, I am doing an engagement photo shoot on October 1st. My biggest issue is now is composition, poses. Are you going in by the seat of your pants or are you going to write down some specific shots you want to get? IF so, where are you going to come up with the idea for those shots?
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE


Jenn M
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Aug 31, 2006, 3:25 PM

Post #3 of 8 (424 views)
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Re: [szerangue] I need to vent some good stuff for a change! [In reply to] Can't Post

That's just it - I've had plenty of ideas and I do execute some of them... that is, when I get a chance which is usually never! I have plenty of ideas for composition and poses. I'm just usually expected to shut up and get out of the way. I'm actually looking forward to having some interaction with the couple.

The best thing I can suggest is surf the net. Check out websites of other photographers whose work you admire. Look at bridal website and magazine b/c often this is where brides form their ideas for their fantasies, too. Personally, I prefer shots that appear to be more impromtu - those stolen moments. So really, my job is to find a nice setting with good lighting, put the couple in it, then let them do their thing. I like to watch body language and feed off of the information they're giving me. I can figure out pretty quicky what they feel comfortable with and what they think is goofy or awkward.

For example, at this past weekend's wedding, the bride was very sweet and bubbly, but her parents were very quiet and they weren't very expressive. When her father saw her for the first time, he didn't gush and say she looked beautiful. He didn't get teary. He told her his vest was too small and he decided not to wear it. Then he mentioned that out-of-town relatives made were checking in to the hotel. Very casual. He didn't outwardly react to seeing his daughter as a bride. In fact, the bride kind of faded when they came in the room, too. Then when the photographer put the parents next to the bride, they barely touched. No embraces. Just friendly smiles. I could tell right away that this wasn't a very emotive family - more reserved. So when the photographer told them to give the bride a kiss on the cheek, it looked absolutely ridiculous and awkward, as I expected. Photog also did the same thing with the bride's brothers who were even more aloof. When the photog told them to give her a kiss on the cheek, the bride just laughed awkwardly and said, "No, they don't do that."

Just learn to read your couple. Make them feel comfortable, then let them interact. Chances are if they don't do it on their own when you give them the suggestion to be themselves, they won't feel comfortable looking at it in a photograph, either.

Brian and I have one of those shots from our own wedding - the photog told Brian to kiss my hand. I hate that picture. He looks goofy - I look goofy, like "What the heck are you doing that for." That's so not us. However, I've seen other couples do this on their own, so to them, it's perfectly natural and representative of THEIR relationship.

Am I just talking out my butt here? You probably already know all of this!

As far as composition and setting, I'll suggest the same thing I've always told Brian about video - get the safe shot first, then get creative. That way you don't lose anything and you might find something rather unique. Try a dutch angle (if it can be called that in photography). Play with your apeture. Put some flowers in the foregound. That's the one thing I really dig about photography - you can move around so much easier without losing content, so you have more time to try different things.

Good luck! I can't wait to see your first attempt! Heck, I can't wait to see my own!!! Sly


Jenn M
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Aug 31, 2006, 3:53 PM

Post #4 of 8 (418 views)
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Re: [szerangue] I need to vent some good stuff for a change! [In reply to] Can't Post

By the way - it doesn't hurt to go to a book store and look at some photography books, specifically wedding photography books, and read how to give direction for formal poses. For example, leaning slightly forward at the waist can eliminate the double chin. If they wear glasses, lowering their chin can eliminate glare. The bride's shoulders should be at a 45 degree angle to help her appear more slender than the groom, rather than both standing side by side, and so on.

As much as I like a seemingly 'candid' pose, as with everything, it's good to learn basic fundamentals. I picked up a book called "Wedding Photography - Art, Business, & Style" by Steve Sint, and found several helpful tips on posing. Things we don't necessarily have to think of with video - such as 'mergers' popping out the tops of the heads, like a tree branch. The placement of hands, which can appear disjointed from the subject if not placed well. And so on.

I know at the photography conventions, they have entire seminars devoted to posing tips and techniques. I'm sure there is plenty of info to be found online, as well.


szerangue
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Aug 31, 2006, 4:02 PM

Post #5 of 8 (416 views)
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Re: [Jenn M] I need to vent some good stuff for a change! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Jen... now for the last question... where are you finding the time? Wink
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE


Jenn M
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Aug 31, 2006, 4:14 PM

Post #6 of 8 (412 views)
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Re: [szerangue] I need to vent some good stuff for a change! [In reply to] Can't Post

I've said it before - I'm a big nerd with no social life. I do this for fun as much as work. (And I don't have kids - that frees up a lot of time. I don't know how you parents do it!)


Scott Brooks
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Aug 31, 2006, 4:16 PM

Post #7 of 8 (412 views)
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Re: [szerangue] I need to vent some good stuff for a change! [In reply to] Can't Post

Shane ...

I keep folders on my computer for photos that I've seen and liked. I have a folder for various types of shots whether it be engagement, bridal party, bride or couple. I just right click on them and save.

Before one of my sessions I literally printed out a page to take with me and be able to remind myself of a few poses that I either could use or just use for further inspiration. There is so much out there ... you just have to take the time to look.

When I took a couple to the U of I campus prior to the ceremony I just let them be themselves. I gave them some space to be in and directed them a few times, but I tried to keep an eye on the background as well as foreground and thought about what type of DOF I wanted.

Posing is my biggest problem and I tell people up front that if that's primarily what they're looking for then they might need someone else. That doesn't mean I can't put a family group together for the altar return shot ... but don't expect me to do 5 different versions.

Just start checking out other photographers pages and you'll find just about anything you need for inspiration.


szerangue
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Aug 31, 2006, 4:21 PM

Post #8 of 8 (409 views)
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Re: [Sparky] I need to vent some good stuff for a change! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks guys, all that makes sense... on to the races!!!
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE