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Home: Video University Forums: Digital Photography for Videographers:
Oh my - how much fun is this?!

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Jenn M
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Jul 7, 2006, 2:05 PM

Post #26 of 38 (977 views)
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Re: [Sparky] Oh my - how much fun is this?! [In reply to]	Can't Post

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Sorry Jenn ... I think we've drifted off topic here.

Not at all! This is great! And Kudos to your daughter... that's awesome!

RustyB
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Jul 7, 2006, 2:08 PM

Post #27 of 38 (976 views)
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Also, plan on getting some adequate backup gear before you start offering your services. Would hate to have the 30D decide to misbehave during the day and have nothing to finish the day with.

Absolutely - good advice. But I to intend to wait until we actually have a job to pay for all this fancy-smancy stuff. Smile

...and by the time your first paid gig rolls around, there will be some newer model you want, or the cost of your current model will have dropped by about 50%. Laugh

I guess digital photography is almost as bad as video...it's probably easy to get caught up with the latest and greatest new toys. Kudos to those who still shoot weddings on medium format. Tongue

Hopefully there's enough profit there, however, to cover the cost of all this digital photo gear. In 3-4 years of being a full time videographer, I still haven't made enough money to buy a 3-CCD HandyCam with the profits. Crazy

Faith Poison Wedding Films Blog
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Jenn M
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Jul 7, 2006, 2:19 PM

Post #28 of 38 (976 views)
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Re: [Jeko] Oh my - how much fun is this?! [In reply to]	Can't Post

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Take the still camera to all of your weddings first... you are hired to produce a video, not drive a video camera. The still images are now one of the tools you use to get images for the video. Even if I am not hired to do photography, I have the still images to fill gaps in time when the other cameras are obstructed. Also, they offer an emotional pause in the video. I also suggest that you clarify to B&G +photographers that you are not selling those images directly (just to keep the local photogs from black-listing you). You can get many sample shots to show prospects doing that.

Once you have some samples, you need to develop you objective as a photographer. Are you selling albums, prints, or image rights??? This impacts what you need to build for demos.

I am personally moving more towards album production (with clients ordering images online by themselves using a service). The more they are seen, the more they are in demand it seems. I am probably going to be 3/4 photo and 1/4 video next year... with over double this year's profitability.

You're a smart man - prophetic... I plan to do exactly as you stated. This weekend, the 30D is hopping a ride with us to the wedding. I'll be interested in seeing how it goes. I don't know this photographer. I've checked out his website and he's a basic, low end guy, so I want to believe that will make him more laid back... but the way things have been going lately, I don't know.

Also, I spoke to the bride's father yesterday - called to talk to the bride, but daddy answered to confirm times and events - I hate when that happens. Anyway, his comment to me was "Now you're going to coordinate with the photographer... I don't want you two fighting over her (the bride)."

My first thought was, "Okay, why is he even saying this - who put this thought in his head... Mr. Photographer? It's usually the photographer who needs this speech." My next thought was, "You're paying us $3800 and you're paying him (according to his website) at the most $1995... What are your priorities here and why did you even bother getting the top package if that's how you feel?" And lastly, my thought was, "Here we go again - another week of shooting behind a photographer - whatever he wants... yawn." I don't know that yet, b/c I haven't met him BUT I'm going by experience. I still plan to go in with my usual smile (forced as it may be), introduce myself, and have my usual discussion about 'we go here, will I be in your way, or will you be in mine?'

But I also know it's a tiny church w/ a short narrow aisle, the preist will stand in front of the couple w/ his back to the guests (dad said that's how it's going to be, period), facing the altar (I'm REALLY getting sick of this set-up - we've seen it about 50% of the weddings so far this year - WTF) and we're working w/ a low end photographer, who in my experience, often tends to panic in these situations and block our cameras b/c he has to get 20 shots of the couple saying their vows. sigh. Throw in 180 guests with cameras, and I'll pretty much be back on here come Sunday, b*tching that I hate my job again.

But we're taking the extra step of going to the rehearsal tonight - something we haven't done in years (literally), AND I'm bringing my 30D to play with. I'm hoping this will make everything a little better the next day.

I'm taking the still equipment on Saturday, as well - going to basically say what you said - "not for resale, for the video production and cover, yada yada yada..." and we'll see how it goes. Hopefully I don't chicken out. If he's nutty, though, I probably won't even bother pulling it out. Not when he's around, anyway. Not after daddy's comment. I'm not interested in causing any problems.

(silly I even have to worry about it)
Thanks again for the input - great stuff!

(This post was edited by Jenn M on Jul 7, 2006, 2:22 PM)

RustyB
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Jul 7, 2006, 2:23 PM

Post #29 of 38 (972 views)
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Which head did you go with? I got the Bogen 488 Rc4 Ball head, but I really like the pistol grip - however, I question the load capacity b/c I generally plan to shoot much of the ceremony from the rear of the church, relying on zooms, and that tele lens is pretty heavy.

My photo tripod serves dual-role as my balcony video camera tripod. It's a Manfrotto 3001BPRO, with a 486RC2 ball head. It's pretty lightweight by video standards, but just right for my photo cameras. I got a heavy 50-200mm zoom for my new DSLR, which includes it's own tripod mount, so the weight is pretty evenly distributed.

Wouldn't it be REALLY cool to shoot your wedding photos with a Manfrotto 3246 tripod and a 503 head video setup? Laugh

But I guess that would suck the fun out of being so mobile as a photographer, versus being bogged down with so much heavy gear as a videographer. The ball head works great for my needs now, but seems like it would be a PITA at a wedding, constantly making adjustments, trying to follow the action.

The 486RC2 also uses the same camera plates as my monopod, which has a Manfrotto 3229 swivel head, so there's no fumbling with plates when I'm carrying both around looking for something interesting.

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(This post was edited by RustyB on Jul 7, 2006, 2:27 PM)

Jenn M
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Jul 7, 2006, 2:38 PM

Post #30 of 38 (967 views)
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Re: [RustyB] Oh my - how much fun is this?! [In reply to]	Can't Post

This is the one I was looking at but load capacity is small

and this is the one I got .

I'll be looking at the 3021 when (and if) we ever get a job. But for the mean time, I'll rig up one of the old video tipods to practice with.

RustyB
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Jul 7, 2006, 2:56 PM

Post #31 of 38 (961 views)
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Re: [Jenn M] Oh my - how much fun is this?! [In reply to]	Can't Post

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I've had my eye on that grip action head as well...seems like it might be more practical for wedding use, than just a plain ball head. I can't imagine me ever being able to afford a lens too heavy for it. Tongue

I think I used to have a 3021 tripod as well...used it as my main video tripod for a while, for which it sucked. (Unsteady center column, and no spreaders.) But it would make a good photo tripod. It's a lot heavier than my 3001, but you could probably use the 3021 without having to extend the center column, for steadier shots. I'm 5'8" or so, and have to raise the column on my 3001 all the way up, making it less stable, although it hasn't been a problem with non-wedding photos.

Come to think of it...depending on how tall you are, you might want to add up the height specs on the 3021, with the height of the head you bought, and the distance to the viewfinder of your camera, or with a tripod mounted lens with the camera attached. With the legs of your tripod fully extended, it might be too tall. No big deal...as you don't have to extend the legs all the way, but for faster setup, it might be easier to get a shorter tripod, then just raise the center column to get the camera to eye level...instead shortening each leg evenly every time it's deployed.

Faith Poison Wedding Films Blog
Intergalactic Award-Winning Epic-Cinematic Wedding New-Doc Style Indie Fusion Bridal Movies on Hi-Definition Blu-Ray Disc

Jenn M
Veteran

Jul 7, 2006, 3:17 PM

Post #32 of 38 (952 views)
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Re: [RustyB] Oh my - how much fun is this?! [In reply to]	Can't Post

hmmm - too tall you say? Maybe - but I'm thinking of the majority of churches we are (stuck) shooting in and many of them restrict photogs to the rear, so the more stable the better.

And the more I think about it, the more I'm digging the grip action head. I might have to make an return... of course, it's currently out of stock...

Shadow
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Jul 7, 2006, 3:39 PM

Post #33 of 38 (949 views)
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Re: [Jenn M] Oh my - how much fun is this?! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Jenn

Slightly off topic but thought I would share this with you since I've been doing a bit of research into photography myself.

I've asked a few clients who recently booked how they found their photographer and why they picked that one. Oddly enough the topic of their work didn't come up but what was important to everyone is that the photographer knew what to do and knew how to do it. One couple told me they were so impressed how their photographer knew the venue and where to stand and that they are going to offer a variety of shots for the family portraits. So often I see photos being taken, this person comes in, that person comes out - it is all the same picture just with different people in it.

Anyway, there's a tibit of market research for you if it helps any.
Heidi

Jenn M
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Jul 7, 2006, 3:51 PM

Post #34 of 38 (945 views)
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Re: [Shadow] Oh my - how much fun is this?! [In reply to]	Can't Post

thanks for sharing...
I definitely feel as though I have an advantage over a completely green newbie photographer in that I've done hundreds of these and have been required (as a videographer) to be constantly aware of my surroundings and learn to anticipate upcoming activities, rather than flying into them half way through, which is a luxury photographers have, compared to videographers.

I plan on using this in my advertising, when the time comes, as to why I may be the right choice for their needs. But for my own peace of mind, I would feel more comfortable with a few practice runs mainly to get a grasp of the equipment and the results it yields in different situations (mainly with lighting). Also, I would like to have some decent demo material so the Client can make an educated decision. I plan to start small (online and CD proofing - they can make prints themselves or go through me - very basic to start - and albums only by request.) I mainly want to offer photo services to video couples who are looking for basic coverage and results. I plan to be clear about that. If they want more, I will refer them to someone else.

Like I've stated before, it's possible that this could change as we do more, but mainly I'm just looking for some synergy between the 2 mediums - one complimenting the other and each accomplishing their main objectives - rather than conflicting with one another, and I'm discovering (over the course of 10 yrs) that the only way this can be accomplished is by removing the independent photographer from the equation. I've had many couples ask us if they can get a photographer just to shoot formals and before the ceremony, maybe a few shots during the ceremony and that's it. But that just doesn't exist around here, and if it does - it's a friend of the family. ugh.

Just like with video, basic doesn't have to mean poor quality. But that seems to be their only option. I'm hoping to offer more options. Of course, now that I'm ready - we won't be able to find any of those brides. Crazy

(This post was edited by Jenn M on Jul 7, 2006, 4:10 PM)

Jeko
Enthusiast

Jul 7, 2006, 4:32 PM

Post #35 of 38 (931 views)
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{My first thought was, "Okay, why is he even saying this - who put this thought in his head... Mr. Photographer? It's usually the photographer who needs this speech." My next thought was, "You're paying us $3800 and you're paying him (according to his website) at the most $1995... What are your priorities here and why did you even bother getting the top package if that's how you feel?" And lastly, my thought was, "Here we go again - another week of shooting behind a photographer - whatever he wants... yawn." I don't know that yet, b/c I haven't met him BUT I'm going by experience. I still plan to go in with my usual smile (forced as it may be), introduce myself, and have my usual discussion about 'we go here, will I be in your way, or will you be in mine?' }
______________________________

Dad's are old school --the video is what daughter wanted while Dad has only heard of wedding photography still.

From the first time I did wedding videos, I always shot photos too. I never apologized or asked for photographer's permission. If they seemed nervous at all, I do make it abundantly clear that I was hired to produce a video (not photography or an album). As you concurred, THE CLIENT WILL NOT GET IMAGES FROM US. But do act as if this is just a part of your normal routine. I do give the photographer priority regarding the line of view for still shots. Your really only need a few to add to the video mix. Then just pose the B&G once or twice quickly for alternative cover / disk-art shots.

Yes, the gear has improved as we've added photo to our service line-up. But policy is still the same, and photogs still refer us often.

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.

Jenn M
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Jul 7, 2006, 4:40 PM

Post #36 of 38 (927 views)
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Re: [Jeko] Oh my - how much fun is this?! [In reply to]	Can't Post

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Dad's are old school --the video is what daughter wanted while Dad has only heard of wedding photography still.

A-ha - you would think so! BUT dad was actually the one who came into the demo with the bride, not mom, not fiance. It was dad's idea to get the video in the first place - he pushed for it, and paid for it. Now, does that make any sense? That's why I was very confused and taken aback by his comment, and I'm just wondering what brought it on... But I just assured him that we work with the photographer and coordinate b/c we're all there for the same reason and that's to do a good job for them. (My stock answer.)

Anywhoo, we'll see how it goes. Wish me luck.

Jeko
Enthusiast

Jul 7, 2006, 4:45 PM

Post #37 of 38 (923 views)
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Re: [Jenn M] Oh my - how much fun is this?! [In reply to]	Can't Post

Just weird then.

Even if parents are funding, I always target B&G satisfaction first. Ask him & her for the priority of things is my recommendation.

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.

Jenn M
Veteran

Jul 7, 2006, 5:25 PM

Post #38 of 38 (918 views)
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Re: [Jeko] Oh my - how much fun is this?! [In reply to]	Can't Post

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Even if parents are funding, I always target B&G satisfaction first. Ask him & her for the priority of things is my recommendation.

And I concur - like I said, you're a smart man. Wink

This is one of the reasons we're going to the rehearsal - I want to know what's up. Been dealing with the bride for the most part up until the other day on the phone when she was "unavailable." Unsure

Until then, I had thought we were their "priority" and she/they were more excited about the video. Like I said, things seem to change by the time the wedding day rolls around... how does that always happen?

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