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Home: Video University Forums: Digital Photography for Videographers:
Online client print ordering - Print sales at reception

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eppievojt
User

May 17, 2007, 9:16 AM

Post #26 of 47 (1137 views)
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Re: [Brian Coe] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Lightroom is easier to use and better than Photoshop , from our limited experience, to get the best quality image in terms of exposure correction , colour correction and above all highlight compression which enables you to recover the details in the white wedding dress without affecting the rest of the image.

However if you need to retouch a part of the image only, remove a spot on the bride's nose etc. ! you need Photoshop or, at least I think that you do, as I am far from having explored all the possibilities of Lightroom yet.

Before we were using ACDSee Pro to manage image files which it does very well, but the image correction side of Lightroom seems to be mush more powerful.

Lightroom actually works quite well for removing uncomplicated blemishes (spot on bride's nose). Unfortunately, things aren't always uncomplicated. Still, Lightroom can be a huge time saver for adjusting the majority of images, as Brian mentions. I love that program. I don't photograph weddings as of yet, but it's awesome for team sport photography, as you can keyword images, sort them as such and then export web galleries of individual players for online proofing. The workflow improvement in phenomenal.

DarrenS
Veteran

May 17, 2007, 3:23 PM

Post #27 of 47 (1122 views)
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Re: [Brian Coe] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I use an SB-800 on camera as the master

Cool. After discovering how much easier it is I was very pleasently surprised. So slick. Thought I'd mention it, just in case. Just an AWESOME Laugh

system. It's better than Canon's system by at least an order of magnitude. I sold my radio triggers and now use Nikon's system for two reasons. I want to take full advantage of the precise management of remotes, plus it gives me a very valid reason to stop guests from taking flash pictures of my poses whilst working. Of course, if they try to take a picture it gets blown-out by my powerful strobes. Technically impossible for them to take pictures of my subjects with the SB-800's configured as remotes.

I shoot with three D200's and my assistant has a D70s to shoot when he's not busy helping me. I was happy to get one of the last D70s's in stock from my supplier a few months ago. Now that it's discontinued there's sort of a big gap left. The D40 requires DX lenses, which makes it basically useless to me. The D80 is much more expensive and pretty sure it uses SD memory. I wanted a low-cost body that used the same CF memory as the D200, as well as the same batteries, as well as have access to the entire Nikkor lineup. The D70s fits the bill nicely. Too bad it's gone now.

I find your on-location printing service very interesting. I'm going to look into doing that, too. Thanks for all your shared information.

Darren

Brackish
Veteran

May 17, 2007, 4:16 PM

Post #28 of 47 (1115 views)
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Re: [DarrenS] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

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I find your on-location printing service very interesting. I'm going to look into doing that, too. Thanks for all your shared information.

I think the idea of informal portraits at the reception is neat but, aside
from selling prints on-site - which I'm not interested in doing
at this time - I'm not sure if/how I'd be compensated for the time
and effort to take these portraits? Can I charge more for the package
if I offer this? Will there be enough sales of these prints after the
event (such as through on-line ordering) to adequately compensate
me for making these? I just don't want to add a bunch of work
for myself without there being the compensation.

DarrenS
Veteran

May 17, 2007, 4:34 PM

Post #29 of 47 (1111 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Time and effort to make the portraits would be a non-issue to me. You're at the reception already. I'd regard it as just another fun thing to do at the party. As far as there 'being enough print sales', well there's only one way to find out :)

Brackish
Veteran

May 17, 2007, 4:57 PM

Post #30 of 47 (1105 views)
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Re: [DarrenS] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

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Time and effort to make the portraits would be a non-issue to me. You're at the reception already. I'd regard it as just another fun thing to do at the party.

Hi, Darren.

Would you feel the same if I were talking about doing video guest interviews
at the reception, wondering if the time and effort it would take
me to conduct and edit the interviews would be worth it?
Would you say "the time and effort to do the video interviews would
be a non-issue because I'd regard it as just another fun thing to do
at the party"?

DarrenS
Veteran

May 17, 2007, 5:00 PM

Post #31 of 47 (1102 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Definately not. I see no way to make a comfortable living in wedding video, in any scenerio. Too time consuming relative to market demand.

Brian Coe
User

May 18, 2007, 4:33 AM

Post #32 of 47 (1075 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

We do guest interviews on video. As Darren says , you're there anyway and 15 minutes of guest interviews in the final edit are generaly a fun part of the film for the B&G, and take negligible time to edit.
Elite Video Mariage
Paris France
http://www.elitevideomariage.com

Brian Coe
User

May 18, 2007, 4:38 AM

Post #33 of 47 (1074 views)
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Re: [DarrenS] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Darren,

I hadn't realised that my remote SB-800's were blowing out the guests cameras, obviously as they are not getting the signal from the master, they just trigger at full power.

What a laugh, now I understand why I sometimes get dirty looks from the amateur competition !
Elite Video Mariage
Paris France
http://www.elitevideomariage.com

Brackish
Veteran

May 18, 2007, 6:18 AM

Post #34 of 47 (1073 views)
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Re: [Brian Coe] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

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We do guest interviews on video. As Darren says , you're there anyway and 15 minutes of guest interviews in the final edit ...

Hi, Brian.
This is kind of a side note but
a good portion of clients in the States have strong
feelings that they do not want the videographer to
"bother" the guests with interviews.

Brian Coe
User

May 18, 2007, 6:41 AM

Post #35 of 47 (1069 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Different coutries different customs but here in France most clients want us to do it.

Having said that, if we sense that a particular guest or family is not confortable with it we immediately back off.
But in many cases once we start the session, it is often the guests who come to us "Can we record a message as well ! ! ! "
Elite Video Mariage
Paris France
http://www.elitevideomariage.com

Brackish
Veteran

Jun 3, 2007, 3:15 AM

Post #36 of 47 (1020 views)
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Re: [Brian Coe] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

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Different countries different customs but here in France most clients want us to do it.

I just happened to come across a discussion of "selling prints at the reception" on a photog forum. Some of the pros were of the opinion that doing this is tacky and is in bad taste. One pro said that, if it was his wedding and he caught the photog doing this, he'd throw the guy out. Just like the difference in some areas wanting guest interviews and some not, maybe setting up a sales booth for prints has to be looked at how this will go over in your area or at the particular wedding. (There was a comment that this is common down in Mexico.) One pro's thought was that you are being paid by the B&G to be shooting their wedding, not lining your pockets with extra print sales, which should more appropriately be done through an internet gallery after the wedding.

Brian Coe
User

Jun 3, 2007, 4:24 AM

Post #37 of 47 (1012 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

We always ask the bride and groom for their thoughts on the matter. If they are not comfortable with the idea, we do not do it. Obviously this is all discussed in advance and not at the reception.

About 1 in 10 do not want it. We have signed some contracts just because we can provide the prints on the evening.

In France it is quite usual for photographers to charge higher prices to the B&G if they are NOT allowed to sell during the evening, typically 400 / 500 dollars !

They do this as they tend to attract the B&G with low prices and assume that they will net at least 500 dollars during the reception . If they do not sell at the reception they would loose money hence the price penalty for the B&G. It is not directly statd as such, but thgey typically have a range of packages which include photo sales at the reception and a secong range of packages without. The packages are never exactly the same in order to make th e500 dollar difference less obvious.

We do not have separate pricing, printing at the reception is to make more margin on sales that we know that we wouldn't get through internet.

Also we know that it gives much please to the bride and close friends to be able to see the photos during the evening.

Brian
Elite Video Mariage
Paris France
http://www.elitevideomariage.com

Brackish
Veteran

Jun 3, 2007, 4:37 AM

Post #38 of 47 (1009 views)
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Re: [Brian Coe] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

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printing at the reception is to make more margin on sales that we know that we wouldn't get through internet.

There was a comment on that other forum that internet print
sales are not very good, generally. One chap said that, when
he looked at his website stats, that there were many views of the
internet pictures, but there were not many sales.

Brian Coe
User

Jun 3, 2007, 5:12 AM

Post #39 of 47 (1005 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

From my experience it is a total waste of time and effort.

Last year we had about 8 weddings up for photo sales on our site and sold less than 30 prints whereas we would have probably sold at least 600 prints on the night ( for the 8 weddings; not eaach wedding !)

Either you sell at the reception or not at all seems to be how it works in Paris. The reason, I think, is that so many people have digital cameras, that once they get back home and look at their own photos, they forget how much better the professionals photos were and decide that their own are good enough.

I may have already said it in another thread but what sells best are the photos of each family group with AND without the B&G. The "without" photos are taken specifically for sales as this is a picture that they can't take themselves ! Not often that a family group is together and dressed in their best !

Brian

PS Brackish, you seem to have unual hours, bearing in mind the time shift between Paris and your home town, you are either a VERY early riser or work VERY late !
Elite Video Mariage
Paris France
http://www.elitevideomariage.com

RustyB
Veteran

Jun 3, 2007, 12:32 PM

Post #40 of 47 (1000 views)
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Different countries different customs but here in France most clients want us to do it.

I think I would agree with that dude's post. I've never seen a photog selling prints at a reception, and it would seem very lame to me, but that just goes to show the differences in cultures I guess. (Even makes me cringe when I see photogs littering the guest tables and sign-in table with their business cards with instructions on how to buy prints.) I also agree that you probably can't count on any significant online sales. If you're going to provide prints, I think the only way to do it is include them in the package.

Faith Poison Wedding Films Blog
Intergalactic Award-Winning Epic-Cinematic Wedding New-Doc Style Indie Bridal Movies on Hi-Definition Blu-Ray Disc

DarrenS
Veteran

Jun 3, 2007, 2:39 PM

Post #41 of 47 (992 views)
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I woke up this morning with a $450 order in my inbox, from my website. Smile

I suppose if the software is handy it's not much work. I simply upload all my images at once into a designated directory, then once that's done I tell the website what title I want to give them, assign some search keywords if desired, what category I want them in, what sizes I want to offer in PPI/dimensions (if selling the digital negatives for download, too), which print sizes I want to offer and then click GO and it does everything automatically. The GD library in PHP is very powerful for working with image files. It takes about five minutes (after FTPing them up to the server) to have hundreds of images online ready for sale in either print or digital form. And even if nobody wants to buy anything online it still serves as a password-protected proofing system, which even my less sophisticated country-style clients have told me they appreciate. It's great for family in other countries.

Scott Brooks
Veteran

Jun 3, 2007, 3:43 PM

Post #42 of 47 (985 views)
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Re: [DarrenS] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I've got 20 weddings this year and have a cart in place. I'm going to evaluate the whole process at the end of the year. I purchased my system from Photo Cart, so now the only charge is when they use PayPal.

It does take time for me to resize and upload ... then there's the whole part about filling the orders, so there does have to be an ROI for the effort.

Unless I see a significant amount of sales this year ... I'll just upload them all to pbase and encourage them to right click and save. (I did that last year.)

DarrenS
Veteran

Jun 3, 2007, 3:55 PM

Post #43 of 47 (982 views)
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Re: [Sparky] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I pay no commissions either. I own the code, the webserver and the hosting company Smile

Currently working with Moneris to cut Paypal outta the picture. I hate Paypal with a passion.

I upload the full-res file and the website creates three (or more) different sizes/ppi so I can offer full-res as well as various lower-res files, something like Corbis does. This will be handy if I ever get into stock imagry. They can download the files immediately after paying online. Or, they simply order prints using the cart. I usually don't offer both digital files and prints on the same image but can if I wanted to.

Brackish
Veteran

Jun 3, 2007, 4:17 PM

Post #44 of 47 (977 views)
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Re: [RustyB] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

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Different countries different customs but here in France most clients want us to do it.

I think I would agree with that dude's post. I've never seen a photog selling prints at a reception, and it would seem very lame to me, but that just goes to show the differences in cultures I guess.

I've never seen a photog selling prints at a reception, either. I'm concerned that if you try to do this in an area where this is not normal, it could put you (as the photog) in a bad light. Even if you charged a low-ball price upfront - and told the client that the low price was in return for them allowing you to sell prints at the reception - the guests do not know you have this agreement and they may look unfavorably on this, certainly not helping you to get any referrals. And low-balling it and relying on print sales to get a decent wage could backfire if the guests are not in the mood to buy.

Brackish
Veteran

Jun 4, 2007, 1:56 AM

Post #45 of 47 (965 views)
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Re: [Brian Coe] Online client print ordering: Worth the trouble? [In reply to]	Can't Post

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I may have already said it in another thread but what sells best are the photos of each family group with AND without the B&G. The "without" photos are taken specifically for sales as this is a picture that they can't take themselves ! Not often that a family group is together and dressed in their best !

Ohhhhhhhh. Now I get it - I think. I couldn't understand when you mentioned this previously why the photos without the B&G sell better. But it seems like what the guests are buying is more like a family group portrait where they're all together and dressed up. Not so much having anything to do with the wedding per se. Am I right, Brian?

Brian Coe
User

Jun 4, 2007, 4:16 AM

Post #46 of 47 (960 views)
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This it exactly. Offer them something that they cannot take themselves.

Brian
Elite Video Mariage
Paris France
http://www.elitevideomariage.com

Brian Coe
User

Jun 4, 2007, 4:35 AM

Post #47 of 47 (958 views)
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Personnaly I am not sure that I would want them either, but it is usual practice in France. In fact many photographers price their packages with a 500 $ difference based on whether they sell on the night or not. They make the packages slightly different so that it is not too obvious to the B&G that the 500 $ difference is there but it is ! We do not do this ; we have our normal price and margin in the package prices and any sales on the night is bonus. It seems clear from all your comments that it is not common practice in the States to do this. If you are thinking of the idea, I would sound out the B&G and their family and also over the next few weddings, sound out a randon sample of guest for their reaction to the idea. It could also be a "class" issue (but don't misinterpret my use of the word "class" ) I have noticed that most of the "poor to medium" income families want the photos sales, whereas the more well to do families are less enthusiastic. Brian
Elite Video Mariage
Paris France
http://www.elitevideomariage.com

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