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Home: Video University Forums: Digital Photography for Videographers:
PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning

 
 


RustyB
Veteran


May 11, 2007, 12:59 AM

Post #1 of 20 (1263 views)
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PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning Can't Post
Took some long exposure shots tonight in RAW, of some lightning happening around town.

"Developing" the RAW images in Olympus Master software added an extra step to post-processing, as you couldn't do things like USM or crop/rotate images. However, I was amazed at the amount of exposure adjustment you could do, and saving the white balance settings from one image to the next made doing adjustments a snap. After saving each RAW as a JPG, I had to open them all over again in PhotoShop, rotate/crop/USM if necessary, and re-save as JPG's. What RAW processing software can you do this all in one shot? Should PhotoShop be able to do this with a plug-in?

Images were shot with an Olympus e-500, ISO 100, but the long exposures created some really bad colored specs noise all over the image. Is this typical with DSLRs?

Here's a 100% crop:





More pics from "City Lights" gallery at: http://faithpoison.smugmug.com



faith poison films



(This post was edited by RustyB on May 11, 2007, 4:34 AM)


Brackish
Veteran


May 11, 2007, 3:48 AM

Post #2 of 20 (1233 views)
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Re: [RustyB] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
I was amazed at the amount of exposure adjustment you could do
 Did there seem to be any advantage in doing the exposure adjustments in RAW vs. jpeg?


----------------------------------------------
"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."


RustyB
Veteran


May 11, 2007, 4:00 AM

Post #3 of 20 (1232 views)
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Re: [Brackish] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
In Reply To
I was amazed at the amount of exposure adjustment you could do
Did there seem to be any advantage in doing the exposure adjustments in RAW vs. jpeg?

It was kinda nice, in particular with these pics (which you can't see now because smugmug is down), I felt compelled to bump up the exposure. But, when I actually took the pics, I intended for them to be dark...so the real value is kinda subjective. Definitely works way better than just tweaking JPG's, though, and I'll probably keep shooting RAW...especially if it can be integrated into photoshop instead of being an extra step to "develop". I don't think I'd want to do it with 6000 wedding pictures, however. Sly



faith poison films



(This post was edited by RustyB on May 11, 2007, 4:01 AM)


Brackish
Veteran


May 11, 2007, 4:18 AM

Post #4 of 20 (1225 views)
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Re: [RustyB] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
Using the batch convert which some/?all converters have
is nice.

I just used batch conversion the other day for the
first time. I had about 200 test shots that I had
in large TIF form. I wanted to flip through these
quick in Windows to compare them side-by-side. Well,
being large files Windows couldn't display them quick
so I used batch convert to make them into smaller
JPEGs just for viewing purposes and the conversion
went lickety split. If I would have had to bring
each one of those TIFs into Vegas and convert them
one-by-one it would've taken hours.

I do believe the RAW "developing" program Sly that
came with my cam has a feature where you can
"select all" and "send to Photoshop".


----------------------------------------------
"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."


RustyB
Veteran


May 11, 2007, 4:32 AM

Post #5 of 20 (1224 views)
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Re: [Brackish] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
Using the batch convert which some/?all converters have
is nice. ...

But, I'm wondering what is the benefit of shooting RAW if you're just going to batch convert them to JPG straight out of the camera? I guess at least that'd still give you the option to go back and "fix" any that might need it.


Finally learned some real pros/cons of shooting digital.....

I have always liked pictures or lightning, but could never afford enough film to catch some. I got a bunch of lightning tonight with my digital camera, and it didn't cost a dime. Cool

Long exposures with digital have some nasty noise on them. Mad



faith poison films



Brackish
Veteran


May 11, 2007, 4:42 AM

Post #6 of 20 (1218 views)
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Re: [RustyB] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
Long exposures with digital have some nasty noise on them. Mad
I think some cams have a "long exposure noise reduction"
feature - maybe in the menu.


----------------------------------------------
"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."


RustyB
Veteran


May 11, 2007, 6:57 AM

Post #7 of 20 (1209 views)
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Re: [RustyB] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
Finally, SmugMug is back online!





















I really need to get a better wide angle lens for cityscapes. The buildings look like they're made of rubber. Laugh



faith poison films



(This post was edited by RustyB on May 11, 2007, 6:59 AM)


Postal Boy
Veteran


May 11, 2007, 9:19 AM

Post #8 of 20 (1185 views)
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Re: [RustyB] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
Digital noise on long exposures can depend greatly on the camera model, and even the chip inside the camera. Long night exposures are a good test of whether you have pixel noise or not.

We are expecting some storms through here over the weekend. Last night we had some lightning and a little rain, but it was a work night so I didn't get the camera out.

I'll see what the 30D does this weekend if I get a chance.

What f-stop did you use to keep from over-exposing during the long shutter?

-Postal


RustyB
Veteran


May 11, 2007, 9:44 AM

Post #9 of 20 (1183 views)
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Re: [Postal Boy] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
Digital noise on long exposures can depend greatly on the camera model, and even the chip inside the camera. Long night exposures are a good test of whether you have pixel noise or not.

We are expecting some storms through here over the weekend. Last night we had some lightning and a little rain, but it was a work night so I didn't get the camera out.

I'll see what the 30D does this weekend if I get a chance.

What f-stop did you use to keep from over-exposing during the long shutter?

-Postal


The small CCD's in the Olympus cams are noisy at high ISO's, compared to a Canon 30D for example. Maybe the same would hold true for these big blotches of noise in my example above...maybe the Canon's bigger sensor isn't as bad in long exposures.

f-stops was set pretty high/small; some at f22 so I could leave the shutter open for like a minute, but that's when I started worrying about noise I might be creating. Most of these shots were in the middle of the night, and I purposely underexposed the buildings when shooting, but then ended up increasing the exposure of the RAW files after all. The exif info is easily displayed in my gallery: http://faithpoison.smugmug.com



faith poison films



Jeko
Enthusiast


May 11, 2007, 2:37 PM

Post #10 of 20 (1170 views)
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Re: [RustyB] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
Wow, those are really cool pics! I don't play with those shots much, but might start now. The storms are leaving TX and coming to TN tonite I think.

As for your RAW processing questions, the two tools that I love now are Adobe Lightroom for simple things, and Photoshop CS3 (with updated Bridge). The image rotating and such is all done in Lightroom or Bridge, and goes quickly.

They both have downloadable full trial versions (30 day I think) to test them at Adobe's website.

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.


DarrenS
Veteran

May 11, 2007, 3:01 PM

Post #11 of 20 (1160 views)
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Re: [RustyB] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post

Very nice picture, Rusty. Nailed a framer. Great composition. I'd bring the exposure up in raw a half stop or so, and remove distortion in PS.


DarrenS
Veteran

May 11, 2007, 3:12 PM

Post #12 of 20 (1158 views)
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Re: [RustyB] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
I don't have a lot of experience with many digital cameras, but can say the D200, even at 30s exposures, is quite clean. Must be that particular model or something...not sure. Gawd I love that camera. Never go back to film.

Here's a night time image from my weekend wedding (made at midnight, thanks to several 20-min speeches). Nine bracketed exposures blended with CS2 HDR. I've very pleased with the result. Wasn't so pleased with the 2-hour drive home, however :)




DarrenS
Veteran

May 11, 2007, 3:28 PM

Post #13 of 20 (1144 views)
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Re: [RustyB] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
If you have CS2 just download the free Adobe RAW plugin. It's the best way to process RAW files.

http://www.adobe.com/...etail.jsp?ftpID=3587


Postal Boy
Veteran


May 11, 2007, 4:27 PM

Post #14 of 20 (1131 views)
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Re: [DarrenS] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
Sweeeeeet picture at night. I haven't done any HDR (still running PS7 Frown) but looking forward to playing with it.

-Postal


DarrenS
Veteran

May 11, 2007, 5:05 PM

Post #15 of 20 (1123 views)
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Re: [Postal Boy] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
Thanks Postal.

I've heard the HDR system is far superior in CS3. Way more control. Can't wait to get CS3!


Howard Neill
Veteran


May 17, 2007, 9:47 AM

Post #16 of 20 (1060 views)
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Re: [RustyB] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
Rusty - these are great. You should enter a competition.

Cheers

.
Howard

Cape Video
Don't trash the dress. Plant a tree instead.
Cape Town, South Africa - "Where two oceans meet"


RustyB
Veteran


May 17, 2007, 1:45 PM

Post #17 of 20 (1042 views)
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Re: [Howard Neill] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
Rusty - these are great. You should enter a competition.

Cheers

.


Alls I did was push the shutter button a bunch of times and hope for the best! Tongue I've always wanted to capture some lighting on real film, but digital finally made it feasible. They look so surreal...like the pictures were created in PhotoShop or something!

They're like the vengeful hand of God striking down upon all the big oil companies headquartered in Houston. Laugh



faith poison films



Brackish
Veteran


May 17, 2007, 2:03 PM

Post #18 of 20 (1038 views)
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Re: [RustyB] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
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Alls I did was push the shutter button a bunch of times and hope for the best!
 The "spray and pray" method? Smile


----------------------------------------------
"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."


RustyB
Veteran


May 17, 2007, 2:12 PM

Post #19 of 20 (1035 views)
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Re: [Brackish] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
Yep. Funny thing about lightning, it would come at pretty regular intervals, so you can count out so many seconds after each thunder, and release the shutter again...minus the one second "anti-shake" delay I set the camera for, then cross your fingers. But still, I deleted a LOT of pictures, and missed a lot of great strikes.Laugh


In Reply To
In Reply To
In Reply To
Alls I did was push the shutter button a bunch of times and hope for the best!
The "spray and pray" method? Smile


faith poison films



Dman
User


May 18, 2007, 6:11 PM

Post #20 of 20 (1006 views)
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Re: [RustyB] PICS: Long exposure sensor noise; RAW thoughts; Lightning [In reply to] Can't Post
Thanks Rusty,
Always glad to see what my E-500 can do.
Awsome pics
Canon XL1s,2xGL2 and Panasonic Gs120