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Home: Video University Forums: Digital Photography for Videographers:
Printing for clients

Scott Brooks
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Oct 5, 2006, 1:27 AM

Post #1 of 5 (476 views)
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Printing for clients	Can't Post

Rather than take away from the other thread I thought I would start a new one.

What is your goal in providing prints/files? Is it to provide a clean image that the client can print out themselves?

Do you want to edit each file (be it 100 or 1000) to be the very best it can be ... knowing that the majority will never be printed?

Do you even want your clients to order from you?

You just want to shoot and burn and then let them deal with the prints?

Currently I'm editing in all the files in iView that I want to keep. I import those into DPP and edit for WB and exposure only and then convert to jpeg. From there I'll burn them all to a data DVD. (Raw files are on HD as well as DVD for backup.)

I'll then do a "save as" level 8 on the folder and burn them to CD for the client.

Currently I'm using PhotoReflect for clients to order from and I fill the orders. Hopefully by the end of the year I'll have my own cart set up, but we'll see how that works out.

When I receive an order I go to the full sized jpeg that's already had WB and exposure corrected. I take the extra time to crop, fix minor blemishes, boost contrast and run unsharp mask to clean it up. From there I load to a folder along with other images that have been ordered.

That folder gets FTP'd to my lab where they print the sizes I need. Typically I have the order shipped back to me first, but I have no problem doing a drop-shipment directly to the client if it's time sensitive. Of course after I look at them they all get shipped out. There are more costs and time involved in doing this than some clients could even imagine.

My point is that if I provide my clients with a CD of their images, a signed release allowing them to have them printed at a lab, and let them know that they are free to print images for their family as well ... then there is no reason for them to expect a low price from me. I am not Wal-Mart, nor do I take my files to Wal-Mart. I put a lot of time into the images.

4x6 = $6.00 ... will probably go to $10 by June of 07
5x7 = $12.00 ... headed for $15
8x10 = $18 ... will go to $22 to $25

If I truly had no reason to make a profit and didn't want to deal with prints ... I would upload the files to Shutterfly or one of the other many on-line labs for people to order from ... and charge more up front.

All those prints with soft focus, glow, and special effects are essentially saved for the ones that order albums. I'm not going to spend a bunch of time on photos that may never be ordered or printed ... and certainly not for free.

One other idea that you may or may not be interested in.

I've got an "internet special" for friends and family. They can purchase 5 of their favorite files on CD for $50. From those files they'll be able to print any sizes and number of prints as they wish. They can purchase any 10 files for $75.

I just started this two days ago so I have no idea how this will work out.

Jenn M
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Oct 5, 2006, 12:48 PM

Post #2 of 5 (462 views)
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Re: [Sparky] Printing for clients [In reply to]	Can't Post

I agree with your point. I'm starting my prices (from prints to albums) a little low because I'm trying to generate interest. But it definitely makes sense that if you are giving them the files to do themselves b/c you don't want the hassle, you should charge more.

The way I've been doing it is separating the images into 2 categories first - then doing some light editing (WB, contrast, maybe even some skin glow) on the 'keepers' and almost nothing on the other ones (nothing more than sharpening, maybe a WB adjustment if it's really bad) - b/c I agree, why do all that work on images that may never even be selected for a print. I guess it's kind of like semi-edited raw footage - we clean it up by taking out the crap (camera swings, redundant footage, floor shots, etc), but it's really not edited to tell any kind of story or anything and no effects are applied.

Then we pick about 20 to 'go to town on' for our website, and in the future we'll probably print those and give them to the Client as a bonus (print only - not the file), to show them what we are capable of and then if they want to order the 'artistic' prints from us, they can.

I really prefer not to get tied up in becoming a printing house. Maybe it's because we're coming into this as videographers and we're used to not seeing after-sales, but I'm not going to get all bent out of shape about it, like I've seen the traditional guys get. They freak out over the videog shooting their poses b/c they think we're going to make prints; they freak out over the guests shooting b/c they're afraid they'll lose reprint orders; they hoard the negatives and make Clients jump through hoops to get prints, etc. Some even go so far as to ban anyone from being present at the formal shoots. I can understand wanting to do that solely to save time, but typically that's not the reason. It's fear of losing reprints.

That doesn't even phase me. Again, I'm coming into this with a different background, so that's probably why. Hmmm, amybe I should use that in my presentation to potentials. Cool

I'm REALLY digging the fast turnaround. Sending out those CD of images and wiping my hands of it. If they come back for anything additional, then additional fees apply. I REALLY like that.

Scott Brooks
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Oct 5, 2006, 3:34 PM

Post #3 of 5 (459 views)
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Re: [Sparky] Printing for clients [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

I'm REALLY digging the fast turnaround. Sending out those CD of images and wiping my hands of it. If they come back for anything additional, then additional fees apply. I REALLY like that.

I buried myself this year (stupid, stupid, stupid) ... thinking I had to offer all the packages and stuff like every other photographer in a 50 mile radius.

I had told myself when I started I was going to do it like my video business because that worked well. In video I offered one package ... period. Photo montage or additional hours ... anything else other than my regular time and editing was an additional charge. It was great ... loved it.

Well ... even though I told myself I was going to approach photography the same way ... I didn't. I ended up with three packages with the top two including albums. Proof magazines, DVDs, on-line slide shows and parent albums were all included with various packages. I found myself gasping for air because I didn't have a good workflow planned ... just jumped in. As you can see from my pricing above, that's all changed.

I went back to one price with a CD and print credit. They can use the print credit towards a proof book, individual prints, alubm, slide show or an engagement session. This is really going to make my workflow much easier to handle.

I now tell them that unless they're ordering an album they'll only have to wait about a week to 10 days for their edited files on CD.

While my goal is to turn the weddings around quickly, I want to do it in a manner that they're still receiving a quality product.

I know most of our weddings (video) come from referrals. I'm guessing that referrals are going to be that much more important in photography, so I'm looking for a system that provides excellent customer service while allowing me to make a profit. This might be the one for me.

Jenn M
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Oct 6, 2006, 3:41 PM

Post #4 of 5 (442 views)
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Re: [Sparky] Printing for clients [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

a signed release allowing them to have them printed at a lab,

Can you expand on this, please...
Do you give them an actual peice of paper to take with them? How does that work? We have been putting our name on the back of the images - but not with a � or watermark on it. By supplying the CD, I assumed that would be enough to give them permission. I know Walmart, for example, is a stickler for copyright protection on professional photos. Should I be giving the client something like you mentioned so they don't have to face any potential embarrassment or delay?

Scott Brooks
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Oct 6, 2006, 4:08 PM

Post #5 of 5 (441 views)
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Re: [Jenn M] Printing for clients [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Wal-Mart ... at least mine as well as many others I know of ... will not print out anything that appears to be professional. And when you get into wedding pics, that's what you're going to run into. Wal-Mart actually has a release form that they will sometimes ask the photographer to fill out and carry on file.

Even though images are not watermarked, do not have the copyright sign, or are on CD ... mine won't touch them ... and neither will Walgreen's.

I did an engagement shoot for my daughter's best friend ... just for free ... and then gave her the CD without thinking anything about it. Next day she dropped off Wal-Mar's release form for me to sign.

Here's a copy of the letter I use:

To Whom It May Concern:

Please be aware that in accordance with their contracts, my Clients have purchased the high resolution digital files from their wedding photography. They have permission to make an unlimited number of copies and/or reprints of any images, or to reproduce the images for any non-commercial purpose, for personal use at no charge.

The Clients may not use any images for commercial or editorial purposes or to enter any of the images in competition without the express written permission of Uncle Buck's Photography.

Uncle Buck's Photography retains the copyright to all images provided, per USC Title 17 (US Copyright Law).

Sincerely,
Uncle Buck

Also ... I put the following right on the disk.

At the bottom of the disk it says:
Digital Proof Files
Clients have purchased rights to print photos for their personal use.

Below that I have my name, website and phone number.

AND ... one photographer that I know of had a great idea. His first file on the disk was a jpeg with the rights printed out on it so that they always had a copy.