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Home: Video University Forums: Digital Photography for Videographers:
Proofs: what's everyone doing?

Shadow
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Jan 19, 2008, 4:22 PM

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Proofs: what's everyone doing?	Can't Post

What do you do for proofs?
Standard 4x6 prints - do you watermark them?
Do you print out a certain number - say best of 300?
Do you do a contact sheet?
Just give them the disk?

Since at this point I'm giving them the digital negatives I'm not bothering to watermark them or do contact sheets. But at some point I am wanting to do more with albums and print sales (maybe next year, I have too much on the go right now). So I'll be changing my packages at that point.
I'm thinking of making a proof book something like this one http://www.candid2000.com/preview_booklet.asp

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Sparky
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Jan 19, 2008, 4:57 PM

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Re: [Shadow] Proofs: what's everyone doing? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm proofless. Since they receive a DVD with all images I just let them take care of printing anything they want.

Brackish
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Jan 23, 2008, 9:52 AM

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Re: [Shadow] Proofs: what's everyone doing? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi, Shadow.

I just dropped paper proofs.

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Shadow
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Jan 23, 2008, 9:57 AM

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Re: [Brackish] Proofs: what's everyone doing? [In reply to]	Can't Post

See, my concern is that people will take the disk to crappy walmart where the 16 year old new kid is doing the processing and the pictures look like crap.

I figure if I at least deliver good proofs - be it 4x6 prints or a contact sheet at least they can see that the photos look good.

Doesn't anyone else worry about that? Plus their faces when I hand over that little album of 300 4x6's I always get such a great reaction. When I've asked people who have just received a disk (from their photographer) most are unimpressed wtih what they got in the end. One girl can't even open the disk because her home computer doesn't read dvd's.

I put my price up to include a small 300 - 400 proof album but it seems to be worth it. One couple I offered $150 off if they just wanted the disk and they said "but then we don't get any photos" and they went with the other package that included proof prints and a few enlargements.

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Jenn M
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Jan 23, 2008, 11:47 AM

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Re: [Shadow] Proofs: what's everyone doing? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Shadow!

Long time, no type...

Anyway, I had the same concerns as you - that they would take the disc to the local Walmart and receive a bad batch (which happened to us when we were printing a few test batches around local places) and then they would think I was a big hack. I now show potential clients a print we had done thru our lab and then one printed at Walmart and explain the difference - ie. that we calibrate our monitors to the lab specs and that these are pro labs, as opposed to the machine run by a 17 year-old who doesn't care about quality. I also put a disclaimer on their info basically stating that we cannot guarantee the quality of prints produced by any other labs as results may vary depending on paper, ink and personnel.

So I give them the disc w/ all the images (high-rez, ready-to-print files - no watermark), and then choose 300 images for hard copy proofs - they have the choice of 300- 4 x 6 prints (I don't watermark) or a 50-page 10 x 13 proof magazine with 6 images per page. Surprisingly more couples go for the proof magazine, once they see it. I get mine from Bay Photo. I even had a few people think this was their album???! The file numbers are printed below the image so it makes it easy for them to locate the same file on the disc and/or for ordering. This also helps them narrow down images for an album. Many people seem overwhelmed by the disc - they don't know where to start. AND, IMO, the downfall of the disc is the same downfall of video - you need additional equipment to view it, rather than that instant gratification of just looking at it.

Oh and I don't bother w/ proof albums for the 4 x 6 prints - tried that, it was ANNOYING! I just present them in a simple black box w/ a bow, explaining that this way, they can pull out the ones they want to put them in their own album. I find most people generally agree with whatever you tell them, if it sounds reasonable.

Hope all is going well!
Jenn

(This post was edited by Jenn M on Jan 23, 2008, 7:12 PM)

Babs E
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Jan 23, 2008, 2:31 PM

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Re: [Jenn M] Proofs: what's everyone doing? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Jenn!

Where do you get your black box for proof presentation? I can only find the very long, shoebox- length ones, or clamshell boxes that only hold 100.

Thanks!

Jenn M
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Jan 23, 2008, 3:06 PM

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Re: [Babs E] Proofs: what's everyone doing? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I order them from here at Albums Inc. It's a pain finding the boxes on the site - I usually search 'boxes' and it comes up.

Another place is:
http://www.dnlphoto.com/...packaging/boxes.html
I used them once. They do not have online ordering, so for me, it's kind of a pain b/c I usually end up doing this stuff at 2am.

Hope that helps.
-jenn

Babs E
Novice

Jan 23, 2008, 3:32 PM

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Re: [Jenn M] Proofs: what's everyone doing? [In reply to]	Can't Post

This is exactly what I'm looking for!

Gracias!

Brackish
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Jan 24, 2008, 2:41 AM

Post #9 of 12 (629 views)
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Re: [Shadow] Proofs: what's everyone doing? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I had been offering paper proofs but I was getting the impression
from some clients that they really didn't value the proofs much.
They never really asked questions about paper proofs when
they asked questions about packages. I asked a couple
prospective clients if they cared if I didn't give them the
paper proofs and they said that was fine with them - but then
they wanted a discount on the package price.

Now, the downside of the proofs is the time and expense it
takes to make them. Say you're out-of-pocket cost
for a large number of paper proofs plus a book is $100 - $175 bucks,
give or take. Then you've got a number of hours you're
putting into selecting "the best of" the proofs. Or if you have
the client select "the best of" that's more hours and correspondence
back and forth. Then you have to order the proofs, put them
in a book, do the packaging, take it to the post office.
So, you're maybe looking at a half a day or a whole day of labor
on this. And say some prints don't turn out proper cuz of problems at
the lab and the client complains about 5 proofs that are bad.

I really don't know what portion of clients value paper proofs. I'm
sure it varies. I'm guessing that the majority of ones I've
been dealing with don't value them. It seems to me that
the $150 + labor that goes toward making them comes
directly out of the profit. And I think I can book at the same
package price without offering proofs so why even offer them.

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Jenn M
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Jan 25, 2008, 10:45 AM

Post #10 of 12 (605 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Proofs: what's everyone doing? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

And I think I can book at the same
package price without offering proofs so why even offer them.

I originally thought the same thing... except I've noticed 2 things - clients are more likely to order an album and sooner when they have the proofs that I narrowed down for them. (I've also noticed that they often 'choose' the same images we've already chosen for them.) And number two, the parents - they are often the ones I find are looking for hard copy proofs. They are more traditional, and they want to feel they are getting something tangible for their money AND, now, moreso than with video, they are the ones writing the checks, so I have to work harder to make them happy, which is kind of annoying, but I'm getting used to it.

-jenn

Brackish
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Jan 25, 2008, 6:43 PM

Post #11 of 12 (583 views)
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Re: [Jenn M] Proofs: what's everyone doing? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I was doing a "best of" the paper proofs and I was getting
the question "Do we get to pick the best of?" I told them
"no" and I'm guessing they're a bit disappointed about
that.

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Jenn M
Veteran

Jan 25, 2008, 7:00 PM

Post #12 of 12 (578 views)
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Re: [Brackish] Proofs: what's everyone doing? [In reply to]	Can't Post

IMO, it's all in the presentation. Instead of saying you are picking the best of... tell them you are narrowing down the images for them... I don't know - it works for me.