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Home: Video University Forums: Digital Photography for Videographers:
Terrified of starting things up?

 

 


Postal Boy
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Feb 27, 2007, 11:35 AM

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Terrified of starting things up? Can't Post

Ok...I have been anticipating taking the plunge into wedding photography, and putting it off, and putting it off, and...

I have videography experience, but not so much photography. I have been trying to create my "image" and finally hired someone to build a logo/brand name for me after playing with my own ideas for months. I figure I just haven't done it because of nerves. I was SUPPOSED to be out there starting in January (yea, right).

Any of you that jumped in recently to the photography side of things have the same kind of hesitation? If so, what did you do to overcome it? I am going to order business cards as soon as the logo is complete and will begin to distribute them to local venues. Any advice on that distribution or methods of contacting the venues? Or just overcoming the nerves associated with embarking on this type of venture? I can't remember what starting videography was like (it was too long ago in the "blur" of memories)...

-Postal


Scott Brooks
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Feb 27, 2007, 12:09 PM

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Re: [Postal Boy] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you've missed the bridal shows then you've probably missed the number one opportunity to get started this year. You may still be able to get some weddings if they come to see you for video before they book the photographer, but does that happen a lot for you?

I second shot with another photographer for about 5 weddings to get a sample album put together. Have you shot a wedding yet either as a second or by yourself?

Going out alone can be extremely nerve-wracking. And if I hadn't spent time second shooting I would be scared to death. You have to go out with a certain level of confidence. The last thing you want to do is show up and be screwing around with the settings on the camera. If you know your settings and comfortable with them ... feel ok posing people for the formals, and can take command of the situations, then you'll probably do fine.

I'm not good at networking so no help there. If most vendors are like myself, they won't hand out your material until they've worked with you or know more about you. I wouldn't recommend a DJ that I had never worked with. There are some horrible ones out there and I'm not about to push one off on a bride. That doesn't mean don't pass out the cards ... just don't expect a whole lot at the beginning.

I wish I could be more encouraging, but it did take me a long time to learn the technical aspects of shooting.


Postal Boy
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Feb 27, 2007, 12:59 PM

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Re: [Sparky] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been messing with the camera pretty steadily for about 6 months now, and did a large family reunion (gee, weren't that fun?) with 80+ people that worked out pretty good (people are happy with the shots). Around here there is pretty much a lock on photographers (one big company) and the doors are pretty closed as far as working with them.

I am planning on shooting basic packages where I just deliver a CD with the images on it for starters - basically approach the low end market (WAIT! I know! Tire kickers are trouble!) but I have to start somewhere until my portfolio builds some. At least that way I would have some material to work with to build albums and so forth. I am also thinking of building a couple of albums AFTER the fact and approaching the couple later with the option to buy at a reduced rate (since they would be the first ones). If they want it, they can buy it. If not, I use it for a portfolio album. That way they don't have any particular album expectations since they didn't order it. I figure if I make it nice enough they may just consider picking it up because of the WOW factor.

This is new to me, so I have some ideas, but they get overshadowed by the uncertainty. I work well with people once I get together with them, but have a hard time convincing myself to get my butt out there :(

-Postal


Jeko
Enthusiast


Feb 27, 2007, 1:55 PM

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Re: [Postal Boy] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you are trying to be like other photogs, you'll be unnatural.

In advance:
Decide what your end goal is to sell. Images as prints, images on disk, or albums.... then try to have samples to show as soon as you can. I personally restarted by giving free photo coverage to two brides that hired me (originally for video only).

When shooting:
Be yourself, develop YOUR style, try things and experiment (digital is great for that).

I'm not saying that you can't watch and learn from other photographers-- just don't try to duplicate anyone. Be yourself as a photographer!

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.


Postal Boy
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Feb 27, 2007, 2:10 PM

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Re: [Jeko] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks...Good advice. As they say, the people pay for the photographer more than the photos themselves.

-Postal


Jeko
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Feb 27, 2007, 3:21 PM

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Re: [Postal Boy] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

I absolutely believe that.... whether photo or video, they are hiring YOU.

BTW, it is nerve racking at first -- but not unlike the first video shoots.

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.


Postal Boy
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Feb 27, 2007, 3:32 PM

Post #7 of 21 (1432 views)
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Re: [Jeko] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've blocked the first video shoots out of my memory....kind of like all major injuries during childhood...Angelic


DarrenS
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Feb 27, 2007, 9:05 PM

Post #8 of 21 (1416 views)
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Re: [Postal Boy] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

Forget photography and weddings for a minute. Ask yourself what kind of personality you are. It's the single most important component of wedding photography IMO.

Are you shy and quiet? At a house party do you enjoy blending in and watching the antics of the 'party animals'? Do you laugh at more jokes than you deliver? Most everyone's had at least one emergency in their life...do you handle those without thinking, or do you stop and think to make a effort to get it resolved 'properly'?

First thing I'd do is make sure you can take a bull by the horns. If you can it's a good thing. If you can't it's not necessarily a bad thing for life, but it's definately not good for wedding photography.

Are you the life of the party, or a close 2nd or 3rd? Do you think you'd make a good GM in a company or do you prefer to work alone? Ask yourself these questions and if you lean more toward 'life of the party' then you're probably well-suited to wedding photography. It's the exact opposite of wedding video in terms of personality. It's NO coincidence the photog forums are kinda harsh and the videog forums are, well, kinda wishy-washy. It's not because photogs are idiots and it's not because videogs are idiots...it's because the softies mix with the assertive people like oil and water. Throw into this mix the idea some people are newbies and some are veterans and it gets even more magnified.

I've spend literally hundreds of dollars on wedding photography books over the past two years. Most of them totally suck; waste of perfectly good money. But here's one I highly recommend. Read this book, learn your camera like the back of your hand and make sure those horns won't intimidate, or else don't do it. Smile

Darren


Postal Boy
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Feb 27, 2007, 10:46 PM

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Re: [DarrenS] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll check the book out. Thanks. I have looked at several books and most of them aren't very informative...mostly "this is the picture I took and these are the camera settings." Even a lot of the "professional" and published books don't have pictures as good as some of you guys post.

-Postal


DarrenS
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Feb 27, 2007, 11:40 PM

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Re: [Postal Boy] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

I just reread my post and forgot something...

If you're the type able to manage groups of people (hearding cats) without letting anyone walk all over you then go for it. The rest is easy as pie. You're the photographer; you're running the show. So run it. Digital wedding photography is nothing to get all worked up about. There's no makeup/hair people billing by the hour. There's no set or props costing big hourly bucks. No models asking for or complaining about weird things. No more film (I'd hate to shoot a wedding on film). It's just Regular Joes in front of your camera who would have been there anyway, with or without you. Most are feeling pretty darn good, too. It's low pressure all things considered.


Jenn M
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Mar 1, 2007, 1:13 AM

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Re: [Postal Boy] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

hey Postal -

We kinda came to the same place around the same time - I recall you starting to pop up on the photog side of the VU around the same time as I did. I also hesitated for quite a while. We had kicked around the idea for well over 2 years, talking about it as "what if..." But a few things held me back - 1 ) not wanting to learn all new equipment and editing software, etc. (seems like I'm doing enough of that w/ video on a regular basis) - my previous experience w/ photo was all film, and with Nikon. So chosing a camera was obstacle #1, then learning my way around it came next when i decided to go w/ Canon.

Also, I was worried that I wouldn't be able to do both. I stress myself out over wanting to do the best video; I know I'll be just as anal, if not worse, with photo - b/c this is my baby. Video was always Brian's thing. I played with photography before I even met him - which is probably why I picked up video so easily. Then I worried that I would miss video. But boy oh boy, after the year we just had... I think I might be able to live without it, or at least, without as much of it. Just stupid stuff happening... and nutty photographer to work around. I was getting burned out!

Another worry was that we would lose referrals from photogs, which USED to be one of our main sources of getting jobs. BUT I paid attention the past 2 years or so and noticed that we were getting hired sooner in the planning process, and in some cases, before the photographer. Esp. last year and this year. This gave me some confidence that we could pull it off.

And a little part of me worried that I wouldn't be able to take charge. Like Darren said, as videogs, we have the 'luxury' of remaining the fly on the wall, a quiet presence. Photogs do have a lot more responsbility with organizing and gathering people, etc. But I found it increasingly more frustrating NOT being able to step up. I LIKE working with brides and grooms. I don't mind those tasks. By nature, I'm a very organized person, so it drives me crazy when the photog doesn't have a plan. We worked with a few newbies and dreaded friends of the family last year and in a few cases, I actually did step in and organize, as much as I could while rolling tape.

Anyway, I took each of these worries and distected it. The more I looked at the numbers and the more I played out different scenarios (and the more nutty photographers we ran into), I realized I was cheating myself by NOT doing it. We made the official decision in July. By September, I was so annoyed that I hadn't done it sooner! But I kept reminding myself, at least I'm doing it now!

So far for 2008, we are booking strictly combo and photo jobs - it has worked out that way. We have one video job w/ a bride whose family we worked with many times in the past, and she's on the fence about having us do the photo b/c she's afraid the video will suffer. I almost want to say, "Honey, after the year I've had, I believe your video will suffer if you DON'T have us do the photo...." b/c I'm convinced she will hire a photographer who will screw with us and compromise her video. She wants an inexpensive photog - b/c she 'claims' the video is her priority. So I'm afraid she'll go out and hire some nut who doesn't give a crap and has no respect for the event itself, running around like a maniac, snapping away.

Anyhoo - so much for that.

I just started reading everything I could find on the internet. I bought a few training DVDs. I practiced constantly with the camera so I know it intuitively (and I still do). And as corny as this sounds, I practiced posing people - including Brian, other relatives, a wonderful friend who puts up with me, the dogs Wink - though I'm not a huge fan of rigid poses, I want to know how to 'direct' someone so it makes sense to them. I want to learn which 'poses' work and which ones don't. I started offering free engagement sessions to anyone who would let us shoot. I called a DJ friend and asked him for leads - told him, if he knew of anyone getting married last fall or this winter who was in a pinch and needed a cheap photographer, we would do it for free or next to nothing. Called a few video friends, too. That's how we got our first 2 'jobs' - one which is this Saturday. I can't wait!

The engagement sessions paid off b/c several led to the weddings coming up this year. Also, it gave me some samples, since I don't have weddings, which also helped to book a few weddings for this year and next. We pulled the camera out at a few weddings after the paid photog left - which gave us some field practice. We also attended several wedding rehearsals (for our video jobs) last fall and brought the DSLR along to practice shooting.

I practiced a lot. Smile I'm not a total risk-taker. I needed to 'know' I could do it before I booked my first paying job.

I tried calling a few photogs that we are friendly with and offered to second shoot, but as I suspected, they weren't interested. I'm not coming into this as a complete newbie - so I think that 'intimidates' them. At least, that's what I've been told. The second-shooter thing didn't work for me... but that probably has something to do with this area - everyone is very competitive. However, if you can do it, that's a great opportunity - just don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of.

Lastly, don't discount your video experience. I really do believe having been a videog for so many years will make me a better photographer. I'm so trained to constantly be looking around, observing and shooting. As you know, with video, it's important not to leave gapping holes in the 'story' - or it can be a real pain in the butt to edit. For years, I watched traditional photogs snap off their standard shot list and then sit back. That was the opposite extreme of what I'm seeing today - just random machine gun firing - but again - what good is it if there's no story or point? also, as videogs, we have to make sure we're in the right place, ready to go - you can't come into something half way thru, so again, we will be better prepared.

I don't know about you, but perhaps from doing video for so long, I can almost anticipate a person's next move or word or even emotion. Again, I believe that will make me a better photographer.

So good luck. I hope this rambling post has helped at least a little bit. If nothing else, it gave me reprieve from my late night editing! Cool


Scott Brooks
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Mar 1, 2007, 2:32 AM

Post #12 of 21 (1350 views)
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Re: [Jenn M] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jenn ... it goes without saying ... a complete report on Saturday is expected. Cool


Postal Boy
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Mar 1, 2007, 11:29 AM

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Re: [Sparky] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

My biggest hold-back, I think, is that my video experience was in northern Utah. Then we moved. I haven't really gotten myself "established" in the new area so I am kind of starting from scratch as far as a local presence.

Thanks for the advice and info. I guess the biggest hurdle is just doing it. Once the ball starts rolling I think it will roll - and roll and roll (fingers crossed).

-Postal


Shadow
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Mar 1, 2007, 8:25 PM

Post #14 of 21 (1314 views)
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Re: [Postal Boy] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Postal.

We all start somewhere! What about it makes you the most nervous? Is it not knowing what camera setting to use in a particular setting? That's fixable by practice and reading/testing.

Is it fear of getting a mental block on the wedding day for posing people? That's fixable by having a shot list prepared well in advance. You could even collect photos along the way by photographers you admire an have an "inspirations" folder that you can draw from for creativity and build on them from there. I have seen a photographer do this and make little thumb nails and keep them with her just incase she needs a bit of inspiration on a rough day.

Is it the fear of not making the business work? You'll never know unless you try! There's some dopey photographers with BRUTAL personality out there and they seem to make it. (go figure).

Would you want to do a couple of weddings for free? That's an option for you, I did 2 for free plus a bunch of other free work and use my camera every day (well, I did before it went in for service). There's so much to learn out there!

The book Darren recommended is good for learning work flow, lots of hints on how to go about the whole thing. I didn't find much, on camera tips, but there's other books for that.

I think you should ask yourself what about it makes you nervous. Then write down everything you can do to fix the situation, and do it. If you're fully prepared, you're going to feel a hell of a lot better going in there than just starting and hoping for the best. Be as prepared as you can be.

Have you thought about offering all your video clients a free engagement or family photo? Try at the local churches to be a volunteer photographer at events, this will give you practice as well. Do you have a dj you like? Why not ask if you could team up at a non-wedding event and be a photographer with him. I have done this last year and gave good experience in a reception type of setting.

I hope this gives you an idea or two. Starting any new job is always hard at first. If you enjoy what you do and have a desire to do it, then chances are you'll do just great!


DarrenS
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Mar 2, 2007, 8:07 AM

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Re: [Shadow] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

No there's few 'camera tips' in that book. Probably because it's a wedding photography bookSmile. If someone needs a book on camera tips I'd suggest they shoot wildlife and avoid weddings like the plague. Wildlife won't sue somebody for being lame, and wildlife can't give anybody bad word-of-mouth.


RustyB
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Mar 2, 2007, 12:29 PM

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In Reply To
No there's few 'camera tips' in that book. Probably because it's a wedding photography bookSmile. If someone needs a book on camera tips I'd suggest they shoot wildlife and avoid weddings like the plague. Wildlife won't sue somebody for being lame, and wildlife can't give anybody bad word-of-mouth.




No kidding. Not to scare postal or anything, but I ROUTINELY get complaints from brides about their photographers. And these aren't photographers that picked up their first cameras 4 weeks ago and bought some business cards calling themselves a professional wedding photographer. I have no idea whether the photos sucked or not, or whether the bride simply didn't make an informed decision when choosing her photog, but it doesn't matter at all. All that matters is that photog now has another customer telling countless other brides, and wedding vendors like me, that he/she sucks.

It's one of those things that makes each and every wedding video project such a crapshoot for me, and why I've decided that wedding photo is NOT the business for me. I want to sell 'widgets'....in high quantity, at a profit, with NO artistic embellishments requiring me to cross my fingers after each sale as to whether the customer got what they expected. And I'm going to do what all successful TRUE American businesses do...hire Mexicans to do all the work. Laugh




Faith Poison Wedding Films Blog
Intergalactic Award-Winning Epic-Cinematic Wedding New-Doc Style Indie Bridal Movies on Hi-Definition Blu-Ray Disc


Postal Boy
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Mar 2, 2007, 12:57 PM

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Re: [RustyB] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

Most complaints I have heard about photographers have been with the personality. The worst, he kept cracking jokes all the time (I'm sure just to be social) but he kept them out for over 4 hours doing bride/groom formals after the ceremony...ugh...


RustyB
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Mar 2, 2007, 1:28 PM

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Re: [Postal Boy] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Most complaints I have heard about photographers have been with the personality. .....



Yeah, I think there's a lot of 'perceived value' when it comes to personality...in addition to how much money they charge. Most of the complaint I hear are when they hired a cheap photographer. I doubt most brides are going to complain about their photos if they've spent $10,000 on photos and albums, no matter how bad they were. Laugh

The very high end photogs also seem to do a lot more schmoozing...pretending to be the bride's best friend...at least until that final check is cashed. It's hard for me to feign interest in the bride or act like I'm her friend. I just like to work at making the best video I can, and move on. Not really wedding photographer material, I guess.

One of the most popular/expensive/schmoozer photogs I've ever worked with was joking around and asked why I wasn't eating at the reception, and how videographers were usually the first in line at the buffet. I said,"that's ironic, I usually have to go fetch the photographers off their asses to keep them from missing the cake cutting after dinner." Laugh Neither one of us ate dinner...and it was about a 14 hour Asian wedding day shoot. We actually got along pretty well, when he wasn't pretending to be the bride's best friend.




Faith Poison Wedding Films Blog
Intergalactic Award-Winning Epic-Cinematic Wedding New-Doc Style Indie Bridal Movies on Hi-Definition Blu-Ray Disc


DarrenS
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Mar 2, 2007, 3:48 PM

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Re: [Postal Boy] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

Most complaints I have heard about photographers have been with the personality.


That's actually kinda strange considering they hire based primarily on personality in the first place. Guess they're poor judges of character.

This is where I'm really lucky. I've always been good with people. All types of people, and I love making new friends if they're solid. Learned these social skills dealing with the huge variety of customers my Dad had at his wrecking yard (I used to deliver parts for him, among other things). Everyone from angry hardcore outlaw bikers to super-ego rich owners of multiple car dealerships (who think they're pretty s*it-hot btw; not easy to handle). Being stuck behind a computer for the better part of twenty years it's extra nice to get out and actually deal with people face to face again. I love it, and my enthusiasm is genuine. I think one of the methods that work well is remaining professional throughout any discussion of photography, but soon as *they* start to take the conversation off on a tangent (which, btw, is a good sign they're warming up to you) you turn the pro stuff off instantly and switch to friend mode and just go with it. This way we develop a friendly raport whilst she still respects me as a business man. I think some folks in business make the mistake of being too 'ridged' and they can't switch back and forth smoothly, or at all. Most computer/IT types are like this, actually. They're usually terrible at dealing with humans. It's why so few of them are self-employed. Or people trying to do business are just always in friend mode and don't even know how to be professional (i.e. doomed).


Scott Brooks
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Mar 2, 2007, 4:38 PM

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Re: [Postal Boy] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jenn and I were talking the other day about photographers ... 'specially now that we both ARE photographers.

I noticed how many times I've read in photography forums about all the complaints from brides ... certain photos are missing, you got more of the groom's family than mine, I thought you took more photos than that, I gave you my list of photos for the album two weeks ago ... where is it?

My conclusion is that regardless of how much a bride pays for photography there is a higher level of expectations. Photographers are traditionally one of the first vendors to be booked ... more important = higher expectations.

I've been very fortunate in my career as a videographer (I'm no artist) in that I've never had to deal with an unhappy bride. If there were any ... they didn't communicate their dissatisfaction to me. Getting into photography really made me think twice ... could I handle a PO'd bride. I'm hoping I never have to find out.

Good photography along with great people skills ... I think you'll do fine. Average photography but suck at people skills ... you're going to have problems. Just my opinion, but I think that's the way it will go down.


Jenn M
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Mar 5, 2007, 1:28 PM

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Re: [Sparky] Terrified of starting things up? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Good photography along with great people skills ... I think you'll do fine. Average photography but suck at people skills ... you're going to have problems. Just my opinion, but I think that's the way it will go down.



This is so true. Did you see my post on our Saturday wedding? It's kinda long, so I'll summarize. Smile
One of the bmaids proved your point above - she told us about how her photog pushed her buttons on the wedding day and she ended up telling him to 'get the F away from her.' She said the pictures were fine, but he was awful.

We don't work with this photog, but he has quite the reputation for his raunchy attitude. BUT he keeps getting hired... b/c he's cheap. Brides see that bargain basement price and likely book right over the phone without ever meeting him. Also, we've been told that he sends in his partner - a falsy sweet woman (who can turn on a dime, too) to 'butter up the brides' and close the deal. His smart - he keeps himself hidden.

It's wierd - everyone knows he's miserable, but almost every reception hall refers him... b/c he pays to be in their stupid show. My theory is - he has to do every show b/c he can't count on referrals. He doesn't make nice-nice.