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Home: Video University Forums: Digital Photography for Videographers:
What is different between RAW & JPEG??

Jeko
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May 8, 2007, 1:31 PM

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What is different between RAW & JPEG??	Can't Post

I couldn't find it the other day, but here is the old luminous landscape article that discussed the differences between RAW and JPEG:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/...es/u-raw-files.shtml

Don't want to read it?? To me, the main point is that RAW saves 16K brightness levels in each pixel, while JPEGs store 256 max. This comes in to play whenever you are trying to change shadows or overblown highlights mostly.

Thought it might be helpful again...

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.

Brackish
Veteran

May 8, 2007, 2:28 PM

Post #2 of 16 (1076 views)
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Re: [Jeko] What is different between RAW & JPEG?? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I ran across this when I was lurking on one of the photog forums:

"I can't count the number of top film photographers I've known that have switched to digital and started with JPG only to realize the mistake they were making by not shooting raw. Every top digital photographer I know shoots raw. Every newbie I've seen shoots JPG. And every newbie I've known that started with JPG eventually realized it was a mistake due to lack of knowledge and experience."

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

Jeko
Enthusiast

May 8, 2007, 3:16 PM

Post #3 of 16 (1071 views)
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Re: [Brackish] What is different between RAW & JPEG?? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I disagree with blanket statements that peg this as black and white. RAW is not wrong or right. It is a business (or artistic) decision. There are advantages to RAW and advantages to JPEG.

If I go on vacation with only one card, I will shoot JPEG. I am not evil for doing so. At weddings in changing lighting conditions, I now prefer to have the RAW files to use after the fact (a once in a lifetime moment). But, I couldn't necessarily afford to shoot RAW before... so it was JPEGs.

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.

(This post was edited by Jeko on May 8, 2007, 3:18 PM)

szerangue
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May 9, 2007, 9:34 PM

Post #4 of 16 (1028 views)
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Re: [Jeko] What is different between RAW & JPEG?? [In reply to]	Can't Post

The only thing that puzzles me about this whole Raw VS JPEG conversation that we have been having here for the past week is I have been listening to Gary Fongs DVDs for the past couple of weeks and he promotes shooting JPEG. He says at a wedding he would shoot 1MB or smaller files, all JPEG using only 512mb flash cards. He talks about how to shoot in various conditions and it seems to all make sense. Where is he wrong? or Why is he wrong?
Everyone on here that I questioned raved about Gary Fong and his DVD course but when I posted what he taught without mentioning his name, all I got was negative feedback and how wrong I was.

If you can shoot a wedding with smaller files and all JPEGs, why not? Most of the shots are close ups except during the ceremony... if you have a good TTL flash and use the light meter on the camera and end up with nicely exposed shots, why do they need to be 4gb - 14gb in size?

Most of these photos will end up being no larger than an 8x10 and most of those will be 5x7s. So why shoot raw?

I think whoever wrote that quote about RAW is biased. There are many photographers in my area, seasoned well informed photographers and they all shoot JPEG.. every one of them.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE

Jeko
Enthusiast

May 9, 2007, 10:14 PM

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Re: [szerangue] What is different between RAW & JPEG?? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Gary is a businessman first, and a very good one. He simply realized that he was best off doing only what he needed to get the results he was delivering for clients... anything more would be wasteful. He teaches this same approach to hoards of aspiring photographers wants them all selling prints (up to 8x10 on his Pictage), and building albums. The product he promoted (and is selling to photographers new and old) only requires medium-size JPEGs.
He is not wrong. GF is merely promoting a common sense approach that the cost of overshooting (too much data) is not worth the significant expense associated with that memory and processing for him. Realize that he is now selling/promoting his Pictage.com, and has a vested interest in making photo-clones that use his business to sell the same way he does.

So here again are my personal reasons for having returned to RAW:

1. Are the drawbacks still there?? Things change, like the price of storage and the true ease of processing RAWs. This was the primary draw back that Gary presented when we discussed it.

2. What are your results going to be?? In his seminar, Gary promoted the his results: images on pictage and in his style albums. I am selling a different album (were I trim things more for example) and inhouse enlargements to larger sizes.

3. One other reason I do appreciate is being able to save an image or two that may have been originally under/overexposed. Furthermore. this includes taking a single image and increasing or decreasing a version of it to have backdrop and foreground properly exposed in a single image.

These are why I believe the RAW option is a viable option again. Each photographer needs to have a goal for what they are selling their clients first, then develope their approach to deliver that specific result. There is not a universal answer to the RAW v JPEG.

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.

szerangue
Veteran

May 9, 2007, 10:42 PM

Post #6 of 16 (1020 views)
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Re: [Jeko] What is different between RAW & JPEG?? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Jeko... I was kind of hoping that maybe that was not the case but I think you are right. But when I originally posted the question about Fong is seemed like I got some positive responses from him. I guess the answer is, if you want to shoot 2 or 3 weddings each weekend, capture the 1000+ photos onto your hard drive, save them to CD, back them up to HDD, store them, edit them, then do the same thing 2 more times each weekend and each weekend after that... shooting in 14mb RAW would probably be a mistake unless you had mega HDD and and worked very fast.

But since I will be shooting only 1 wedding at most a weekend, so far 1 wedding a year! RAW is probably a good option.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE

RustyB
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May 9, 2007, 10:44 PM

Post #7 of 16 (1020 views)
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Re: [szerangue] What is different between RAW & JPEG?? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

...Everyone on here that I questioned raved about Gary Fong and his DVD course but when I posted what he taught without mentioning his name, all I got was negative feedback and how wrong I was. ....

I think this guy must have a huge base of die-hard followers who like to preach his gospel...he must be an amazing marketing genius. Half of the wedding photogs I work with now have one of those goofy giant domes on their flash. Laugh

I think I'd just do like you are doing...try to take shots right the first time, instead of the "shoot first and ask questions later" approach I see so often these days at weddings. (Last wedding, the photog said he'd shoot roughly 6000 pics, and he shot alone. I doubt he was shooting RAW. Then again, he just walked around point the camera in a general direction, holding down the release button...didn't even use the viewfinder half the time. And he DIDN'T use a Fong dome...or ANY diffuser for that matter.)

If I were doing weddings, shooting tons of pictures, I figure I'd just shoot highest quality JPG and keep post-processing to a minimum. But, I'm finding with digital, I end up wanting to "fix"/crop/USM/rotate every picture anyways. So I'm thinking I might start shooting RAW. I read here that since you're editing each picture anyways, it's easy to make RAW part of the workflow...open the RAW, edit, and save as a JPG all at one time. Since I'm not shooting a lot of pictures right now, i.e. no weddings, memory is not an issue.

Then again, I think I'll give up on RAW, JPG, and frustratingly doctoring up digital pictures altogether. Shoot film...let the ignert minimum wage worker at the drug store do all my post processing. Tongue

faith poison films
it's better than nothing

szerangue
Veteran

May 10, 2007, 1:00 AM

Post #8 of 16 (1008 views)
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Re: [RustyB] What is different between RAW & JPEG?? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Half of the wedding photogs I work with now have one of those goofy giant domes on their flash. Laugh

Hey, say what you want abou those "goofy giant domes" but I have one and they work great. Per his instruction, given a situation like portrait photography, it's great.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE

Scott Brooks
Veteran

May 10, 2007, 1:14 AM

Post #9 of 16 (998 views)
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Re: [szerangue] What is different between RAW & JPEG?? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

If you can shoot a wedding with smaller files and all JPEGs, why not? Most of the shots are close ups except during the ceremony... if you have a good TTL flash and use the light meter on the camera and end up with nicely exposed shots, why do they need to be 4gb - 14gb in size?

Most of these photos will end up being no larger than an 8x10 and most of those will be 5x7s. So why shoot raw?

You're correct ... if they're properly exposed there is no reason at all to shoot raw. I haven't reached that level yet so I do like the additional information within my file.

As for GF ... He's proven he's a marketing genius and and an even better investor. I'm sure he's got some great business ideas, but when it comes down to answers to photography I look elsewhere.
Scott Brooks

RustyB
Veteran

May 10, 2007, 1:15 AM

Post #10 of 16 (998 views)
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Re: [szerangue] What is different between RAW & JPEG?? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hey, I have an even goofier looking DEMB diffuser + FlipIt combo. Sly

Just gotta use what suits you!

In Reply To

Half of the wedding photogs I work with now have one of those goofy giant domes on their flash. Laugh

Hey, say what you want abou those "goofy giant domes" but I have one and they work great. Per his instruction, given a situation like portrait photography, it's great.

faith poison films
it's better than nothing

(This post was edited by RustyB on May 10, 2007, 1:15 AM)

szerangue
Veteran

May 10, 2007, 1:19 AM

Post #11 of 16 (993 views)
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Re: [Jeko] What is different between RAW & JPEG?? [In reply to]	Can't Post

However, that is a very good article. thanks
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE

Jeko
Enthusiast

May 10, 2007, 7:41 AM

Post #12 of 16 (982 views)
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Re: [Sparky] What is different between RAW & JPEG?? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Not just for off images..... Even when properly exposing the main subject, you may find a background underexposed. So much of wedding shooting is on the fly, and lighting can't be control or arranged completely.

For example, I had a great shot of a bride thowing bouquet with bride in foreground. Bride was exposed great, but ladies in background were under. Well, I can cut bride from image, then paste her on a second version which has been brightened a bit to bring out the ladies.

Viola!! The entire seen appears properly exposed and suitable for large usage.

Jeko

Sony VX2100's, iRivers, M-audio 24/96, Canon 5Ds/20Ds (and too much glass), Vegas6, PhotoShop CS3, Lightroom, etc.

Brackish
Veteran

May 10, 2007, 3:32 PM

Post #13 of 16 (968 views)
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Re: [RustyB] What is different between RAW & JPEG?? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Half of the wedding photogs I work with now have one of those goofy giant domes on their flash.

A lot of them I work with don't use any diffuser. I just worked with two photogs and they had the Metz units and just shot straight at the subject - no diffusion, no bouncing. Mostly when they do use diffusion it's the Stofens. At this point I'm not gonna get any of those gadgets. Didn't someone here (?Rusty) say they met a photog who had a whole closet full of this type of gadget ("had tried them all") and was not using any now?

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"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

DarrenS
Veteran

May 11, 2007, 4:29 PM

Post #14 of 16 (913 views)
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Re: [Jeko] What is different between RAW & JPEG?? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I now prefer to have the RAW files to use after the fact (a once in a lifetime moment).

Agreed 100%. I cannot fathom why anyone would shoot jpg (other than they can't afford enough memory for raw, of course).

Shooting jpg is like shooting a polariod instant (no negs). Shooting raw is the ONLY way to get negatives. There's several other reasons raw is far, far superior to jpg too, as others have mentioned some in this thread already.

Brackish
Veteran

May 14, 2007, 11:15 AM

Post #15 of 16 (888 views)
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Re: [RustyB] What is different between RAW & JPEG?? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I think this Fong must have a huge base of die-hard followers who like to preach his gospel...he must be an amazing marketing genius. Half of the wedding photogs I work with now have one of those goofy giant domes on their flash.

I was just on a photog site where they were talking about Fong's latest invention, some Whaletail diffuser that goes for $140. Anyways, Fong, himself came on there and was giving some instruction about how to use his devices. Shortly after Fong came on, some guy posted that Fong's devices are "over-priced, over-hyped junk that no one really needs".

----------------------------------------------
"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."

szerangue
Veteran

May 14, 2007, 2:54 PM

Post #16 of 16 (871 views)
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Re: [Brackish] What is different between RAW & JPEG?? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think you may be partly right although I would hesitate to call of his products junk. Most photographers come with some kind of diffuser over thier flash. The big white dome thingy that I got from him I think works quite well. Is it needed? Well maybe not, but some type of diffuser certainly is. And this thing seems to do the trick. I guess the thing is with Fong is to take from him what will help and forget about the rest that may just be creative marketing. I can see a lot of that marketing crap in his DVD, but there is some good stuff in there also. I recently took some photos of my little boy at the park to use for my wife's mothers day gift. Using some of his techniques and the lightsphere, I think the images came out quite nice. I will try to post an example here shortly.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE