VideoUniversity.com
Home Free Library Store
Free Catalog

Please support VU by making your B&H purchases and links through this B&H ad. Doesn't cost a penny more. <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com?BI=603&KBID=1017"><IMG src="/images/flash_ads/videoUniv2_revised_conv.jpg" alt="B&H Photo" width="260" height="70"></a>
Video University Sponsor
Advertisement

See The New VU Postcard Catalog

To post in the forums see the Forum Guidelines.

Join or Renew Today.
New Benefits for all VU Members
Forum Guidelines and FAQ
Main Index Search Posts
Who's Online Log In



Home: Video University Forums: Digital Photography for Videographers:
who has fused P & V??

 

 


videogeek
Enthusiast

Aug 23, 2007, 9:53 AM

Post #1 of 16 (1473 views)
Shortcut
who has fused P & V?? Can't Post

Hey -

have any of you all fused wedding photo and video... ?

not the same q as - do you offer both.. but rather.. actually fused the two - ??

If yes- what are you offering.. and if NOT.. why not?>?>

S
S.
check out the WFD blog for news and films!
http://wfdblog.blogspot.com
Brushes:PD150's, Palette:Edius, Canvas:LiveEvents!


Sparky
Veteran

Aug 23, 2007, 11:34 AM

Post #2 of 16 (1466 views)
Shortcut
Re: [videogeek] who has fused P & V?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I gave it some serious thought, but finally decided against it. I've gotten to the point where I'm so busy that putting the two together would take some real serious editing time.

I do think it's a good idea and I still might try it at some point ... not just yet though.


RustyB
Veteran


Aug 23, 2007, 12:11 PM

Post #3 of 16 (1461 views)
Shortcut
Re: [videogeek] who has fused P & V?? [In reply to] Can't Post

If I had any kind of success in wedding photography (never shot one myself), I can't imagine dragging down my profit margins by offering video of any kind. Unless people were willing to pay you an extraordinary amount to do it.

However, I think (like we've talked about in the past) I would make some use of my NLE, by offering photo montages on DVD, made using the B&G's wedding photos I shot. It's been my experience, that people love the BASIC growing up/dating photo montages I've done, MORE than they like the wedding videos that I spend WEEKS editing. A photo montage can be done during an episode of Seinfeld.Laugh And if you're a "photographer", you could charge a LOT more for a photo montage, than a wedding videographer can. I bet I could easily get the same $$$ for a photo montage, as I could for an entire wedding video, if I called myself a photographer. And I'd never have to buy or rent another video camera again. Wink





the People's Video Collective blog
wedding video and the means of production



DarrenS
Veteran

Aug 23, 2007, 1:33 PM

Post #4 of 16 (1454 views)
Shortcut
Re: [videogeek] who has fused P & V?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Rusty's right. On his advice actually, I delivered my first basic photomontage last week. She freaked. It took me exactly one half of one hour to produce it using a package called Memories On TV. There were approx. 320 pictures. I didn't even waste time selecting the music, I simply calculated how many mintues I'd need based on 4 seconds per image and went to a directory with my personal collection of mp3s in it, clicked a song - held shift down - clicked another song and dragged them all over. I don't even know what the songs were except for the first and last one! (I told her it was a demo so she could see how it worked; to see if she liked it, and that later she could tell me what songs she really wanted and I'd re-do it properly....well, she doesn't even want the songs changed...lol...apparently we have similar tastes in music and she's half my age).

The answer to your question is 'no' here. When a holding company has a unit that is bleeding money it's cut loose or snuffed. Never do the profitable units carry the unprofitable (at least not for very long). That's bad business.


Brackish
Veteran


Aug 24, 2007, 12:52 AM

Post #5 of 16 (1431 views)
Shortcut
Re: [videogeek] who has fused P & V?? [In reply to] Can't Post

StillMotion Patrick sent me a link to one of his videos
where he worked a few stills into it. The finished
piece was about 95% video as I recall.

I'm sure he'd be happy to show it to you to see
what he has done.


----------------------------------------------
"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."


Brackish
Veteran


Aug 24, 2007, 5:10 PM

Post #6 of 16 (1398 views)
Shortcut
Re: [videogeek] who has fused P & V?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you had any thoughts, yourself, on how the two might be mixed?


----------------------------------------------
"We'll always show up at the wedding with a gift bag for the bride. Inside we have these incredible fuzzy slippers in the teal of our branding."


videogeek
Enthusiast

Aug 26, 2007, 10:00 PM

Post #7 of 16 (1377 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Brackish] who has fused P & V?? [In reply to] Can't Post

well -

I have been thinking about a 5 package type offering... on a horizontal scale rather than vertical...

Photography only
Photograpy Priority + video
Total Fusion
Videography Priority + photo
Videography only

Tough- there are SOOO many options in there... it's hard because- do you limit yourself ( one fusion package only) or diversify SOO much you become confusing.. still thinking.. looking for advise or experienced/seasoned profs....

S
S.
check out the WFD blog for news and films!
http://wfdblog.blogspot.com
Brushes:PD150's, Palette:Edius, Canvas:LiveEvents!


Jenn M
Veteran


Aug 29, 2007, 11:10 AM

Post #8 of 16 (1357 views)
Shortcut
Re: [videogeek] who has fused P & V?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Whew - I've been away for a while - we just moved this past weekend and I've been up to my neck in boxes, but I thought I'd check in and see what's doin' on the VU and I found your post.

I can give you some feedback on my experience with this so far. IN fact, I started off calling our combo packages "Photo/Video Fusion". I had high hopes that this 'new' idea (new to this area) would catch on - that video would take priority for the 'video moments' and photo would fill in with the 'photo moments' - mostly formals, etc. I also tried to offer (for 5 mins) some packages exactly as you had stated, with one as the priority, etc. You hit the nail on the head with the confusion part. That seemed to be what happened. Brides didn't seem to feel secure with the notion that we would or could give both mediums equal attention.

Also, over the past 9 months now of doing this, my entire approach during meetings and presentation has changed. I ask if they had a priority of one over the other - most did not, said both were equally important. I would start with my video presentation, and fill in with photo info. That didn't work - too many people place more importance on photo. Even brides who claimed the video was 'more important' slowly shifted over to making photo the priority. We've seen that for years - no matter what they say BEFORE OR AFTER the wedding, on the wedding day = photos take priority. IN the planning stages, photos take priority. They sit and make their list of family shots, etc. It just becomes all about the photo - it's inevitable.

Combo (or fusion) bookings were slow at first. As soon as I switched my presentation, packages, and pricing around to reflect photo as the priority, with video secondary, almost immediately bookings took off. But I lost having video has a priority. It's a wierd psychology - whether it's the brides and grooms, or their parents, or their friends = they just feel better knowing photo comes 'first' and think of video as an add-on.

I have 16 weddings booked for next year already - all are combos except for one video-only (who booked last year already) and 2 photo only. So people really do like the idea of getting both services in the same place - reasons I've heard are : 1 It's easier to meet with, book and pay one company as opposed to two. 2 They know we will work together. 3 It's cheaper. But even tho they like it - they need to believe photo is the primary service, video is the add-on.

We also found that we had to present our services separately. I have to present myself as the photographer, and Brian has to present himself as the videographer. Even though we both do both and switch off depending on the moment, too many people balked at that. They didn't seem to trust it.

Maybe it will be different after next year when we've had more opportunities to show couples how it works, and hopefully start getting referrals based on our performance. Though Brian hopes video will go away all together, I still know that video is our edge. Soooo many couples have said that they like the idea of getting both in one place, and our videos are much better than any they've seen from other photographers. So that gives us an advantage.

Would you hire someone to do the photo? Or would you join 'forces' with another company? The first one makes me nervous, b/c you have to trust someone to be reliable and perform up to your company standards. And the second makes me wary b/c of egos.

Hope this helps.
Back to painting!
-Jenn M


(This post was edited by Jenn M on Aug 29, 2007, 11:15 AM)


David L
User


Aug 29, 2007, 3:28 PM

Post #9 of 16 (1339 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Jenn M] who has fused P & V?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Very interesting post.

"Also, over the past 9 months now of doing this, my entire approach during meetings and presentation has changed. I ask if they had a priority of one over the other - most did not, said both were equally important. I would start with my video presentation, and fill in with photo info. That didn't work - too many people place more importance on photo. Even brides who claimed the video was 'more important' slowly shifted over to making photo the priority. We've seen that for years - no matter what they say BEFORE OR AFTER the wedding, on the wedding day = photos take priority. IN the planning stages, photos take priority. They sit and make their list of family shots, etc. It just becomes all about the photo - it's inevitable."

When you say that they made photo the priority, do you mean monetarily? Or that they just focused on photo more and were more interested in talking about photo? Or both?

I suppose Photo will always get more attention in the planning stages because it requires more planning. You have to plan out the family photos, where they will be taken, etc. Whereas video doesn't require much planning, you just capture events as they unfold. Video conforms to the events of the day, whereas Photo actively influences the events of the day. Is this what you're talking about? Or is it more than that?

thanks!


(This post was edited by David L on Aug 29, 2007, 3:30 PM)


Jenn M
Veteran


Sep 7, 2007, 1:12 PM

Post #10 of 16 (1217 views)
Shortcut
Re: [David L] who has fused P & V?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry for the delayed response...

To better clarify what I meant - I always believed (and still do) that nothing captures the wedding day events better than video. I'm talking about the action, words and emotions. Stills, to me, are great glimpses of the day - but they don't really tell the whole story, and IMO, their main function is to document the people - not so much the action - again, that's just my opinion based on my own logic. When is the last time you walked into someone's house and saw a picture of their vows or prep or dancing hanging on the wall. You don't. Those are all 'action' events, better captured in video. So I was forming my presentation this way. BUT most people do not agree, at least they think they don't, until they get the video back and realize it's a much better representation of what really happened - BUT (and here's another problem) some people don't really want to know the reality, which is why they may despise video - they prefer the fantasty, the half-truth, the open-ended reality to which they can assign their own meaning. They look at a picture of someone laughing - they can place that image in any scenario that makes sense to them (or makes them happy), when in reality that person could have been in the middle of a sneeze, or yelling at someone, or being mean and sarcastic.

When I say that they make photos the priority before and after the day - I mean they budget accordingly. Most couples (and their parents, esp.) expect to pay more for photo, less for video - even though we all know, video involves much more work. So I had to restructure my pricing to reflect that. I'm getting $2000 for photo coverage and proofs - that's it - job done. So freakin' easy. (If they want an album, that's additional $$$ - so I don't have to do the work unless they pay for it, and surprisingly many of them don't care after the wedding - they make their own prints, they 'design' their own album). I price my video (ceremony & reception coverage) add-on at $995 (highlights are additional). Now, in my mind, it's really flopped - video is $2000 and photo is $995, but they don't need to know that. They need to think they are paying more for photo, b/c that's what people do. I used to have it flopped on the info - and it just wasn't working - brides were 'worried' that their photos would, frankly, suck. (But it's okay if the video potentially sucks, apparently, b/c no one balks at $995 for video.) Tongue

When I say they make photo the priority on the actual wedding day, I mean - they always look for the photographer for events, for photo ops, even for advice. The photographer becomes almost a part of the family. The videographer... well, they are happier not knowing we are even there. So even though they love our video and they likely booked us because of it - they love not paying any attention to us even more. The number one compliment we get is, "We didn't even know you were there!" Problem is, that doesn't always help us do our job b/c we have to rely on other vendors to give us the scoop. Now, since I am the photographer, we have an advantage when shooting video - b/c I know more. I'm 'in the loop.'

So knowing these two facts - the budget norms and the approach people prefer - I knew to change my presentation during meetings to make photo the focus and the priority and make video 'secondary.' And it seems to be working like a charm.

Hope that helps.
Thanks!
-Jenn M


Sparky
Veteran

Sep 7, 2007, 3:23 PM

Post #11 of 16 (1203 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Jenn M] who has fused P & V?? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I'm getting $2000 for photo coverage and proofs - that's it - job done. So freakin' easy. (If they want an album, that's additional $$$ - so I don't have to do the work unless they pay for it, and surprisingly many of them don't care after the wedding - they make their own prints, they 'design' their own album). I price my video (ceremony & reception coverage) add-on at $995 (highlights are additional). Now, in my mind, it's really flopped - video is $2000 and photo is $995, but they don't need to know that. They need to think they are paying more for photo, b/c that's what people do. I used to have it flopped on the info - and it just wasn't working - brides were 'worried' that their photos would, frankly, suck. (But it's okay if the video potentially sucks, apparently, b/c no one balks at $995 for video.)


Hi Jenn,

I agree with almost everything you posted ... especially the part about looking at a photo either recalling a special moment or seeing "how" they want to see it. Actually, I think that's what's so great about photos ... they make you think back ... not just to that moment, but to the entire event.

I have a questions regarding your pricing. Can I assume that if you're pricing your photography at 2 grand and $995 for video ... that your video option is ONLY available at that price with the photography? In other words ... they can't come in and just say they would like to hire you for video only at that price ... right?

I have a lower price as well when booked with photo, but it's less service than normal and only available when booking us for photos.


Jenn M
Veteran


Sep 8, 2007, 12:52 AM

Post #12 of 16 (1185 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Sparky] who has fused P & V?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Sparky!

Yep - the video is actually listed as $995 (when booked with photography coverage; reg. $2250). They can add highlights montage (1-song recap) for $300. They can add prep coverage & montage for another $300. Or they can add both for $500.

It's working so well that I think it's time for a package price increase - BUT I can't figure out if I want to add $200 to the cost of photo to start at $2200 or $300 to the cost of the video to start at $1295. (By the way - I'm wierd in that I like even numbers, except for 9. It's just a goofy hang-up I've always had with price.)

I'm thinking of raising the video to hopefully slow it down - maybe we'll book fewer at $1295. But I'm torn b/c I want to start getting more for photo. I did recently drop my $200 print credit from the photo package. Now it's $2000 for coverage, DVD of hi-rez proof images; and choice of 300 hardcopy proofs: 50-page 10 x 13 magazine (6-up) or 4 x 6 prints. All prints and albums additional.

Hmmm, maybe I should raise both. Well, we'll see how the next few combo jobs go. I'm the kind of person who feels more pressure with a higher salary - I don't want to overwhelm myself. It's easy to say - "Pha, they're only paying $995 - what do they expect..." if for some reason it's not perfect.

Thanks
-Jenn


Sparky
Veteran

Sep 8, 2007, 1:01 AM

Post #13 of 16 (1183 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Jenn M] who has fused P & V?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jenn,

I've cut back to $400 print credit with a DVD of proofs. However, I don't provide any hard proofs at all. It's much better for me to go this route as opposed to any 4x6 proofs.

I haven't even attempted to sell video this year. If someone asks I'll let them know what we can do, but that's about it. We have one full blown coverage in November where there'll be 5 of us there. Three shooting video and two for photography. Oddly enough ... they're paying $400 more for the video. Of course the album they're planning on purchasing will make it about even.


David L
User


Sep 10, 2007, 10:30 AM

Post #14 of 16 (1129 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Jenn M] who has fused P & V?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jenn: thanks for that further response, I think your assessments are spot on, especially when you say that stills "main function is to document the people - not so much the action." That really nails it and the video industry should be thinking of a way to mine this difference.

"When is the last time you walked into someone's house and saw a picture of their vows or prep or dancing hanging on the wall. You don't. Those are all 'action' events, better captured in video. So I was forming my presentation this way. BUT most people do not agree, at least they think they don't, until they get the video back and realize it's a much better representation of what really happened"

This dovetails with the excellent column in a recent EventDV by Mike Nelson, in which he described how his company focuses its sale effort AFTER the wedding ... he cited a WEVA study that shows that before the wedding, video is the least valued vendor, but after the wedding, video is the MOST highly valued. So to capitalize on this, two weeks after the wedding, he contacts the client to see whether they would like to upgrade their package to involve more elaborate edits, etc. And apparently he finds they almost always add on to their package because they now are so excited about the video ...

We now offer a bare bones, "get them in the door" package, with minimal editing, and we're planning on contacting the client after the wedding to discuss the video in more detail to see if they'd like something more elaborate. Before the wedding, as you know, it's very difficult to get them to book the more elaborate stuff because they just don't think they'll want it and probably don't have a very good idea of what we're talking about until afterward.

Are you finding that people are more interested in ordering the highlights montage after the wedding than before?


StillMotion
User

Sep 16, 2007, 6:46 PM

Post #15 of 16 (926 views)
Shortcut
Re: [David L] who has fused P & V?? [In reply to] Can't Post

We do photo, and video and what you would call fusion. We used to offer a thrree person package with one photographer, one videographer, and one doing both. Now that we are taking less, we decided against offering that as it was a mcuh tougher shoot, and just raised the price to have two of each.

In terms of the final prudct, our SDEs are fusion based in that we always work photos into them. We cover all of the photosession and that is where our SDEs usually end so I mix in 5-10 photos for that portion to really give it another dimension. I couldn't imagine doing an SDE with photosession clips like we do and not having photos. I work the fusion into some other highlights or preps clips as well. It is really awesome when you have a photoshoot at any point in the day and yo can cut to the fully edited photo over just having video shots.


szerangue
Veteran


Sep 18, 2007, 11:39 PM

Post #16 of 16 (893 views)
Shortcut
Re: [videogeek] who has fused P & V?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am offering photo and video. If they want just video, they get me, if they want just photo, they get me... if they want both.. I do video and I have a photog who does the photos. We charge $2000 for the photo gig, she gets $1500, takes all the photos, does all the processing and delivers to me on DVD.. I deliver to the bride & groom the video and the photos on DVD.. The b&g get all the photos in full resolution with full copyright. The photog has the option of selling them storybooks, photo albums and prints.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE