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Home: Video University Forums: Filmmakers & Screenwriters:
Film newbie, need a good place to start...

 

 


X-Will
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Apr 25, 2004, 11:42 PM

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Film newbie, need a good place to start... Can't Post

I've always had a desire to get involved with film. I've been making stupid jackass-style movies with friends on digital8 and miniDV for over 3 years now, and frankly I'm ready for more. Seeing Kill Bill 2 didn't help either... the extreme close-ups of David Carradine have me now desperate to get started with film. I'm not entirely a newbie as far as "film" goes; I have experience with slr still cameras. But in terms of film movies, I'm brand new. So my main question is, where would you recommend I get started (books, websites, movies, anything)??
Also, since I'm used to miniDV I've grown really fond of computer editing and I haven't been able to find a definitive answer for these three "challenges" that come to mind:
- How do you get film onto a PC for editing?
- How do you record/synch sound?
- How do you synch playback of a finished film and sound?
I've done some basic research, and of course I've come across companies that can transfer film to video but I'm not in a position right now to shell out loads of cash. So basically here's my main dillema:
How can I get a start in film without spending outrageous amounts of cash and be able to do post-production myself?
~Thanks


X-Mark
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Apr 26, 2004, 1:07 AM

Post #2 of 6 (1384 views)
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Re: Film newbie, need a good place to start... Can't Post

: - How do you get film onto a PC for editing?
Transfer it to video. It's not cheap.
: - How do you record/synch sound?
Use a Nagra or a DAT machine and slate the beginning of shots (claping a clapboard). You sync the sound of that clap with the picture of the clapboard closing. That's about it.
: I've done some basic research, and of course I've come across companies that can transfer film to video but I'm not in a position right now to shell out loads of cash. So basically here's my main dillema:
: How can I get a start in film without spending outrageous amounts of cash and be able to do post-production myself?
Well, if you're used to working on MiniDV where you can loads of tape for chickenfeed, doing anything in film is obscenely expensive. For example, my first film class required the cheapest B&W reversal film stock Kodak made to use in a Bolex (wind-up 16mm non-sync camera). A 100 ft. roll of it was about $18. Developing it was $18. So that's $36 for about 2 1/2 minutes of footage (thereabout, maybe less considering you'll burn off a bit to start). And that's without transfering it to film.
Having worked in both mediums, I vastly prefer DV now. If you know what you're doing, shoot it with all the care and craft you would using film, you can end up with a really great looking project on DV. I use Sony Vegas for editing, and after experimenting with different lighting, effects/filters, and conversion to 24p video...I can get it looking pretty darn near film in the end. Then of course, there's the benefit of NOT having to sync any audio (but be sure to use a different mic than the on-board camera mic...). Also, 3 chip DV cameras (and 24p cameras) are dropping in price. Personally, I think it's kind of dumb to spend all the money on shooting on film if you can't afford to FINISH on film.
If you're hard core into doing film, read all the books you can if you don't go the film school route. Find any small indie productions going on in your area and try to get on those sets and just observe.


X-Will
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Apr 27, 2004, 12:02 AM

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answers, more ?'s [In reply to] Can't Post

Assuming I have enough money, at this point I have none of the equipment. I checked out ebay and they have tons of 8 and 16mm cams for less than $200 (which is still way less than 3 ccd dv cams). So assuming I can get a good deal on a camera (btw, any recommendations??) is there a way that I can get from film to pc for editing at my house? That's the biggest concern for me, because I do not have the funds to take my film to a studio for post-production. But if there is a way that I can edit at my house, I will definately hop on the bandwagon. If it ends up being too expensive, at least I will have gotten my feet wet (which is my plan right now anyway, I'm not prepping for a festival or anything). Please enlighten me!


X-Mark
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Apr 27, 2004, 2:16 AM

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Re: answers, more ?'s [In reply to] Can't Post

Linked below is a price list for Colorlab, a film student-friendly lab we've used before quite a bit. Look on page 4 of the price list for "Video Dailies" (top left of page 4). This'll give you an idea of what you need to pay for transfering film to tape. Again, with just the minimum charge on video dailies, I'd sink that, the cost of film and developing and everything --- in a decent 3CCD video camera. Panasonic makes a "consumer" 3CCD (PV-GS70) camera now that you can get under $700 if you find a good deal on it. Here's a link on Newegg to check it out.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=30-180-007&depa=0


X-Tony_Corella
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Apr 27, 2004, 11:21 AM

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Re: answers, more ?'s [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Although I highly suggest shooting on video because with the correct lighting, color correction and frame rate conversion you can get amazing results (just look at "Once Upon a Time in Mexico", it was shot intirely on digital). You could just project your film onto the wall, and record it with the digi 8, then capture edit and so on. The results will be ok, but try the video thing, look into plugins like Cinelook or Magic Bullet, they do all the work for you when you want to make video look like film. Good luck.
tony corella


X-blake
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Apr 29, 2004, 1:18 AM

Post #6 of 6 (1384 views)
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Re: Film newbie, need a good place to start... [In reply to] Can't Post

First off, disregard the comment about "Once Upon a Time in Mexico." This was shot on a Panavised HDW-900, with Primo HD lenses, all of which cost upwards of $200,000, not including the perifials. The footage went through extensive color timing at EFilm by professional colorists, before being printed on an Arri laser for the release print. Yeah, it's digital, but your talking two different worlds here.
All of the comments have been good so far, except no one has answered your questions concerning the equipment. Normally, even in low budget productions that choose to shoot on film, the equipment is rented. Typically, you would be looking at a 16mm camera like an Arri SRII or SRIII, zoom, and/or prime lenses, accesories, sticks, head, etc. The tools used by professionals are insanely expensive, and it is much more cost effective to rent than to buy. I have worked on many low budget features that shot for about 2 to 3 weeks, on 16mm, with a full crew, and managed to get a good product for about $30,000. The trick is to have excellent pre-production, and save money on the crew by seeking good people who will work for experience, but little pay.
You must also be well connected.
Now, I know you are not yet ready to tackle a project of this size, but I think the concept is the same on smaller projects as well. Surround yourself with good people, and run your pre-production into the ground, including having a back-up plan for everything.
The question of what format to shoot on can, and should be delt with on a project per project basis. CHOOSE THE FORMAT THATS RIGHT FOR THE PROJECT. If it's a so so story, you are a beginner, and don't have much money, then DV is perfect for your project. Someday, when you have a great story, you have gained enough experience and vision, and sheer determination, you can convince people to give you money for your project, then film may be the answer. Or you can go Rogue warrior and put it all on your credit card. Yes, many Sundance nods have gone to movies done in this manner. The only other way is if your last name is Coppola, and daddy owns the production company that funded your movie.
Don't let anyone decieve you. Most movies, probably 80% to 90% that ever see a distribution deal or any success at all were shot on film. The people at Sony like to use Rodriguez, and Lucas as their PR tool, but they haven't changed the industry noticably...yet.
You need to watch the documentary called "Lost in La Mancha."
If you haven't been to film school, it's a great way to get a glimpse of what a career as a filmaker is all about.