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Home: Video University Forums: HDV:
Anyone mixing cameras?

sunrisedigital
User

Aug 17, 2005, 7:28 AM

Post #1 of 14 (1842 views)
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Anyone mixing cameras?	Can't Post

What I mean by that is, is there anyone on this forum that has a DV camera(like the vx2000) and an HDV cam, like the FX1 and using both in any event or wedding capacities. I am looking to purchase an FX1, to be the primary camera with the VX2000 backing it up. Will that be a nightmare to match colors, etc? What settings will I have to make sure I set? Obviously I would love to have all HDV cams, but can only afford one right now.
If anyone is currently opperating under these circumstances, please let me know how it is working.
Thanks,
Eric

KevinShaw
Veteran

Aug 17, 2005, 12:17 PM

Post #2 of 14 (1828 views)
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Re: [sunrisedigital] Anyone mixing cameras? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I've tried mixing HDV footage from a Sony FX1 with SD footage from my Canon GL1/GL2, and it really makes me want to buy another HDV camera. Not only is the HDV footage noticeably better even for purposes of SD output, but trying to mix widescreen footage with 4.3 stuff doesn't work particularly well. I'm still struggling with what to do about this, but the end result could be that many of us end up ditching our SD gear. Welcome to the HD future...keep your credit card handy!

:-)

dadadv
Novice

Aug 17, 2005, 12:57 PM

Post #3 of 14 (1824 views)
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Re: [sunrisedigital] Anyone mixing cameras? [In reply to]	Can't Post

We are using an FX1 with a PD-170 and GL2 right now (we plan on moving to all HDV by next summer). For our two and 3 camera shoots (that is all we do), I crop the 16:9 HDV footage to 4:3 SD and then use the cropped-downrezzed footage along with the footage from the other two cameras. We are in the midst of our first 3 camera + hdv edit now, so I will let you know how it goes...

okspyder
User

Aug 18, 2005, 7:59 PM

Post #4 of 14 (1803 views)
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Re: [dadadv] Anyone mixing cameras? [In reply to]	Can't Post

So it is possible to mix sd and hdv in the same timeline ?

Anthony

Meghan M
User

Aug 18, 2005, 8:28 PM

Post #5 of 14 (1799 views)
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Re: [dadadv] Anyone mixing cameras? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

(we plan on moving to all HDV by next summer)

Huh? What? Shocked

Don't think so! Maybe one more HDV by next summer, but not ALL!
FX1- XH-A1- FCP

Meghan M
User

Aug 18, 2005, 9:13 PM

Post #6 of 14 (1794 views)
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Re: [okspyder] Anyone mixing cameras? [In reply to]	Can't Post

It is not possible to have hdv and sd in the same timeline in FCP, only one codec is allowed per sequence. The sequence needs to be hd or sd, whatever you place in the timeline that doesn't match, FCP will convert it.

I crop and zoom out on my hdv in a 4:3 dv timeline
FX1- XH-A1- FCP

KevinShaw
Veteran

Aug 18, 2005, 11:51 PM

Post #7 of 14 (1776 views)
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Re: [Meghan M] Anyone mixing cameras? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

That's an application-specific issue then. In Canopus Edius I just import all my DV and HDV clips and go to work, and the software scales everything on the fly to the preview window depending on the project settings. If anyone else has tried this in any other applications, let us know how that's working.

videobear
Veteran

Aug 19, 2005, 11:12 AM

Post #8 of 14 (1762 views)
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Re: [kwshaw1] Anyone mixing cameras? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think the two of you said the same thing, except that Canopus does it RT, FCP renders. Or did I miss something?

Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions

KevinShaw
Veteran

Aug 19, 2005, 1:45 PM

Post #9 of 14 (1752 views)
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Re: [videobear] Anyone mixing cameras? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I think the two of you said the same thing, except that Canopus does it RT, FCP renders. Or did I miss something?

The difference is that Meghan is saying FCP has to render all clips to a single matching format before you start editing, while Edius can handle all sorts of mixed footage on one timeline and simply generates an appropriate preview without rendering them. That's a fairly significant difference in workflow and functionality between the two programs, and shows one of the cool features of the current version of Edius. I think some other programs can also handle mixed footage directly, but I'm not sure which ones.

bruceo
Veteran

Aug 21, 2005, 10:33 PM

Post #10 of 14 (1706 views)
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Re: [kwshaw1] Anyone mixing cameras? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Vegas has handled resolution independent mixed media since ~1996. Long before Premiere, Avid Xp, FC etc etc. Sonic Foundry's scaling technology was one of the key reasons Sony bought SF's software.

First Sight Pictures

KevinShaw
Veteran

Aug 22, 2005, 5:48 PM

Post #11 of 14 (1670 views)
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Re: [bruceo] Anyone mixing cameras? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Bruce: do you happen to know whether Vegas can handle a combination of HDV footage converted to the Cineform codec combined with standard-definition footage on one timeline?

MLiebergot
Veteran

Aug 22, 2005, 10:36 PM

Post #12 of 14 (1664 views)
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Re: [kwshaw1] Anyone mixing cameras? [In reply to]	Can't Post

The answer is yes it can.
However you aer probably better using a DV Proxy for this, by using a Script plugin for Vegas created by VAAST called GearShift. It will enable you to either work with the HDV clip or use a DV Proxy using the Cineform codec (make sure you get the updated Cineform update) and you can then work on your timeline just as fast and efficient as you would with normal DV footage.
Then when you are ready to encode send it back to GearShift to either encode to MPEG DV or HDV video for later delivery.

It's very efficient.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

bruceo
Veteran

Aug 23, 2005, 9:10 AM

Post #13 of 14 (1643 views)
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Re: [kwshaw1] Anyone mixing cameras? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yes, perfectly. Just keep an eye on your project setings and aspect ratios to make sure your intended output looks correct.

First Sight Pictures

bruceo
Veteran

Aug 23, 2005, 9:27 AM

Post #14 of 14 (1641 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Anyone mixing cameras? [In reply to]	Can't Post

I am a registered owner of gearshift, but I haven't used it in my workflow. Reason is that I was using the proxy workflow prior to gearshift implementing aspect ratio matching and other features that were needed to use the proxy as a final SD output source. I originally worked with cineform, but hated it because of the bugs and seemingly false advertising. But I found that for me many of the proxy renders suffered from audio synch problems and were not always frame accurate either causing my edits to be off in the final HD render. Also the worst thing was that certain shots, usually medium shots would have horrible crosshatching on fine lines (hairlines, dress etc) and high contrast scenes. Then cineform came out with an update that is still not perfect by any means, but it will get me clean HD files to work with, so right now that is what I am using.

Cineform good: clean HD files, non mpg editing, 4:2:2 colorspace
bad: 36GB/hr space, Sluggish on P4 3.2 about 60% of the DV editing experience. I am using external USB drives though and haven't tested the FPS off the Raid, but I need to work this config because of the number of projects and size make it impractical to run from the raid right now. Although I saw Spot's machine (Dual AMD) raid and it is just like DV editing. Rendering 1 project, while playing 2 other projects in the background, while editing a 4 multi camera project at 29.9fps pretty impressive.

Proxy: Good 11GB/hr, can hand the project over to other editors on USB drives to work on their slower systems especially if they need to multicam.
Bad:
possibly intermittent render issues (make sure to check the proxy against the m2t by droping one below the other in the timeline and match them up for both frame and audio synch and check your high contrast scenes.
Takes forever to render. 1 Wedding with 4-5 hours footage takes an easy 20-30 hours on P4 3.2

First Sight Pictures