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Home: Video University Forums: HDV:
HD Cameras

 

 


achilles23
User


Oct 2, 2005, 2:39 AM

Post #1 of 15 (2301 views)
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HD Cameras Can't Post

Hello all, Im about to some new equipment for my wedding business and I want to start making High Definition Videos but I dont know where to start. Ive been shooting on a regular sony 3 chip camera and want to upgrade to 2 new high def cameras. Can anyone help me and inform me on which kind and brand are the best out right now for a good price. Anything will help. Thanks Cool


videobear
Veteran


Oct 2, 2005, 11:07 AM

Post #2 of 15 (2281 views)
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Re: [achilles23] HD Cameras [In reply to] Can't Post

Three good resources:
1. Read the Guide to HDV (link is in the sticky thread at the top of the forum).
2. Browse through the messages on this forum. It hasn't been up all that long, so it's still possible to check all the "back issue" material.
3. Buy Douglas Spotted Eagle's little book, "HDV: What You NEED to Know".

The two major players right now seem to be the Sony FX-1/Z1U and the JVC HD-100. The Sony cams do 1080i HDV, have a handheld form factor, and fixed lenses. The JVC does 720p HDV, is a small shoulder-mounted camcorder, and has an interchangeable lens. Several problems have been reported from early purchasers of the JVC camera, such as dead pixels, chromatic aberration, and color differences between the left and right half of the image. It may be prudent to wait a bit and see if the early QC problems are fixed by JVC if you're considering this camera.

Panasonic has announced a handheld camera which will record DVCPRO-HD, a higher quality format than HDV...but to do so requires either the purchase of very expensive solid state memory chips to record to, or the addition of a third party hard disk drive recorder (availability not yet announced).

Canon has announced that they will be releasing an HDV camcorder based on their XL1/XL2 models, maybe by Christmas.

Sony has also released two single chip HDV camcorders, but IMO they aren't suitable for work as a primary camera for weddings, although they may work as a backup or second cam.




Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions


KevinShaw
Veteran

Oct 2, 2005, 11:10 AM

Post #3 of 15 (2281 views)
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Re: [achilles23] HD Cameras [In reply to] Can't Post

The best value at the moment for affordable high-definition videography is the Sony FX1, which you can buy via the internet for a little over $3000 each. Also plan to get the large Sony battery for each camera, which will run for an entire wedding no problem. If you need XLR connectors for your microphones get a Beachtek or other similar adapter. If you don't already have an on-camera light you may want to buy that too, as the FX1 needs a little lighting assist in dim reception settings (~25-50 watts should be enough).

As far as editing is concerned, if you don't already have a good dual processor or dual-core computer you'll probably want to upgrade your editing setup, as effective HDV editing is very processor intensive. And of course you'll want an HDTV to view your finished projects, if you don't have one yet. And you'll want to plan ahead regarding future HD DVD playback options, which may require buying new burners and players.

And finally, allow yourself some time to get familiar with the new equipment and editing/output processes. Don't promise people full HD wedding videos until you've had a chance to experiment with how things work and read some of the discussions about what's involved in working with HD.

(This post was edited by kwshaw1 on Oct 3, 2005, 8:55 AM)


achilles23
User


Oct 2, 2005, 9:54 PM

Post #4 of 15 (2268 views)
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Re: [kwshaw1] HD Cameras [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you heard anything about the Canon XL Hi? Is that better than the Sony FX1? And does the canon camera need lighting assistance also. Ive never really had a problem with lighting before in receptions and I was just using a SD Sony 3-chip so does the HD FX1 not pick up dim settings as well because it is High Definition. Thanks for all the infoCool


KevinShaw
Veteran

Oct 3, 2005, 9:24 AM

Post #5 of 15 (2252 views)
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Re: [achilles23] HD Cameras [In reply to] Can't Post

The Canon XL-H1 sounds like an interesting camera but is expected to have a list price of about $9000, which makes it rather pricey compared to the Sony FX1 or Z1U. We don't really know what the sensitivity of the Canon camera will be yet, but given that the sensor will be the same size as other current HDV models I wouldn't expect it to be much different on that point. One theory is that today's HDV cameras are weak in low light because they're packing so many pixels onto the sensors, which means less light receptivity per pixel compared to DV cameras with same-size sensors. If you're used to shooting without a light at wedding receptions you may find the Sony HDV cameras to be insufficient for your needs, but other than that they're good wedding cameras.


bbbacres
Novice


Oct 3, 2005, 7:19 PM

Post #6 of 15 (2222 views)
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Re: [achilles23] HD Cameras [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, the Canon announcement about their own HDV camera is already out. See it at:

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelFeaturesAct&fcategoryid=165&modelid=12152&pageno=16


videobear
Veteran


Oct 4, 2005, 9:06 AM

Post #7 of 15 (2191 views)
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Re: [achilles23] HD Cameras [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Ive never really had a problem with lighting before in receptions and I was just using a SD Sony 3-chip so does the HD FX1 not pick up dim settings as well because it is High Definition.



1. If you've been doing receptions without at least a small supplemental light, you either tend to have much brighter receptions than we do here, or you're not getting the best image you could. Even the low-light champ, the VX-2100/PD-170 can benefit from a little light in a dimly-lit room.

2. Nobody knows what the Canon's performance will be. It ain't out yet.

3. No, the FX-1 doesn't perform as well in low light as the VX-2100 and PD-170. It has more pixels, true, but they are smaller, and therefore are struck by fewer photons. However, the Sony HDV cams have excellent electronics, and users report that while they need more gain in a given situation than the DV cams, the picture is much less noisy. I don't know anyone who's bought a Sony HDV camcorder and then sold it because it wasn't good enough in low light. Wink




Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions


achilles23
User


Oct 4, 2005, 2:24 PM

Post #8 of 15 (2161 views)
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Re: [videobear] HD Cameras [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok couple of questions, sorry if they sound stupid but im still learning.

1. Yeah I havent been using light to do receptions and they havent came out that bad so maybe I have just been getting lucky but I didnt want to use a light because I thought that it might be a distraction. If I do buy the FX1 im assuming that I will need a light so what kind do I get that will not disturb my clients the most. Also note that it was said that HD cameras dont pick up as well becase of the pixels but would that matter if I were shooting in DV on it because it can switch between the two.

2. Are XLR connectors what you plug in your wireless mics into during ceremonies, toast ect........ Ive been told that the beeachtek is needed for the fx1 because it doesnt have the xlr connectors on camera. I heard that they have to mount on the base onto the tripod and that they break easily there also. Is that true? Just because of that would the Z1U be a better choice.

3. And last, i know this is long, which camera is better for weddings the FX1 or the Z1U. In the long run because I plan on doing this for a while which would be a wiser investment for my money. ThanksCool


videobear
Veteran


Oct 4, 2005, 5:02 PM

Post #9 of 15 (2141 views)
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Re: [achilles23] HD Cameras [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, someone who actually OWNS these cams ought to chime in (Shane, you around?) but here's my take on it:


Quote

1. Yeah I havent been using light to do receptions and they havent came out that bad so maybe I have just been getting lucky but I didnt want to use a light because I thought that it might be a distraction. If I do buy the FX1 im assuming that I will need a light so what kind do I get that will not disturb my clients the most.


I like the NRG micro-light with a 25 watt lamp or less, but it needs a 12V battery brick or belt. Sony also makes a hot-shoe mounted light for the VX series...not sure if it works on the HDV cams, or if there's an equivalent -- 10/25 watt switchable.


Quote

Also note that it was said that HD cameras dont pick up as well becase of the pixels but would that matter if I were shooting in DV on it because it can switch between the two.


Doesn't help. You're still using the smaller pixels, just fewer of them. It's the size of these light-gathering areas that determines sensitivity; the bigger the better, other things being equal.


Quote


2. Are XLR connectors what you plug in your wireless mics into during ceremonies, toast ect........ Ive been told that the beeachtek is needed for the fx1 because it doesnt have the xlr connectors on camera. I heard that they have to mount on the base onto the tripod and that they break easily there also. Is that true?



It's true that most pro mics (wireless or not) use XLR connectors. I have one of those under-the-cam converter boxes, and it's rugged and works fine, although it makes things a bit awkward for handheld work. There ARE some wireless mics available that have 1/8" jacks...check out the Azden UDR-100.

Just because of that would the Z1U be a better choice.


Quote
...would the Z1U be a better choice.

3. And last, i know this is long, which camera is better for weddings the FX1 or the Z1U. In the long run because I plan on doing this for a while which would be a wiser investment for my money. ThanksCool


I wouldn't pick the Z1 for the XLR connections alone. However, most folks who've used both think that the Z1 is significantly better, both in features and in overall performance. I'm not sure if that justifies the cost difference, though; I'd say that the FX-1 was the best VALUE, and the Z1 was the best in absolute terms.




Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions


KevinShaw
Veteran

Oct 4, 2005, 7:12 PM

Post #10 of 15 (2123 views)
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Re: [videobear] HD Cameras [In reply to] Can't Post

I own a Sony FX1 and have rented the Z1U; for my money the FX1 is a better value unless you're sure you need some specific feature on the Z1U. The XLR connectors aren't an issue if you buy a Beachtek-type adapter, and beyond that it's mainly a question of various fine-tuning features. The FX1 has more than enough controls and options for general-purpose videography; more so than many popular DV cameras.

Regarding lighting, I'm currently using a Bescor two-bulb 6 volt system with diffuser that's hot shoe mountable. I use a 10 watt bulb on one side that's adequate for close-ups of people without blinding them, and a 20 watt bulb on the other side for more distant shots. On some occasions I could see wanting two 20-watt bulbs, and that should be enough for most wedding situations with the FX1. Any claims of needing something like 500 watts to get an adequate exposure with HDV make no sense for anyone who's figured out how to properly use these cameras.


achilles23
User


Oct 4, 2005, 7:36 PM

Post #11 of 15 (2121 views)
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Re: [kwshaw1] HD Cameras [In reply to] Can't Post

What kind of Microphones do you use with the Beachtek. I need wireless ones, do you know which ones are the best to buy? About the editing though I have a G5 2.0 dual processor and I am using FCP 5 so that should be enough to edit in HD right? Also is it true that you can burn HD DVD's on the G5's with DVD studio pro?


KevinShaw
Veteran

Oct 5, 2005, 2:42 PM

Post #12 of 15 (2096 views)
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Re: [achilles23] HD Cameras [In reply to] Can't Post

I use Samson wireless systems from B&H which come with cables for both mini-plug and XLR connectors, so you can use one by itself straight to the FX1 or in combination with a shotgun mic to an XLR adapter (my preferred setup).

As far as editing HDV goes, I gather that a G5 dual 2.0 GHz should be adequate for some projects, but may strain a little if you like to pile on layers and effects. Figure that one layer of HDV is equivalent to at least four layers of DV in terms of processing power required for full-quality playback, and deduce your resulting performance accordingly.

Regarding distribution, I hear that DVD Studio already supports a solution which will play in HD resolution on G5 Macs, but I don't know whether that will be compatible with future HD DVD players. Either way I'd expect Apple to be pretty good about updating their authoring software once HD DVD players start shipping.


achilles23
User


Oct 8, 2005, 1:54 PM

Post #13 of 15 (2039 views)
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Re: [videobear] HD Cameras [In reply to] Can't Post

If I shot with a Z1U and a FX1 during a reception, how would my footage come out? Would the Z1 footage look significantly better than that of the Fx which would effect my editing. They are both great cameras so it shouldnt be to different right?


KevinShaw
Veteran

Oct 9, 2005, 11:17 AM

Post #14 of 15 (2011 views)
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Re: [achilles23] HD Cameras [In reply to] Can't Post

As far as I can tell the FX1 and the Z1U are basically identical in terms of image quality, except the Z1U apparently has more options for modifying the image characteristics. In any case, I've mixed footage from both cameras and that worked fine.

(This post was edited by kwshaw1 on Oct 9, 2005, 11:18 AM)


bruceo
Veteran


Oct 12, 2005, 1:41 AM

Post #15 of 15 (1949 views)
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Re: [achilles23] HD Cameras [In reply to] Can't Post

I have several Z1U and FX1s and they are basically exactly the same except for firmware and XLR in. Buy the FX1 and a studio one xlr adapter and save the money on the Z1 basically you are paying $1800 more for a bulit in XLR box, which IMO is poorly constructed. Using a Z1 this past weekend with zlr wireless and on camera xlr mic plugged in and the plugs that stick out the side bumped into the side of a doorway and it broke the xlr box off. It turns out the $1800 feature (XLR box) is molded to the body with only a thin strip of metal. Very dissapointing for a "professional" product. I can see the contnial use of xlr plugs causing problems down the road as this part gets continual physical stress.


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