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Home: Video University Forums: HDV:
Mixing HDV and DV in Vegas

MLiebergot
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Nov 4, 2005, 8:53 AM

Post #1 of 11 (1581 views)
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Mixing HDV and DV in Vegas	Can't Post

I am going to be either picking up a Sony A1U or an FX1 to shoot weddings with along with my VX2100, and Canon GL1 (CYA cam). The HDV cam would trun into my primary cam and the VX2100 would be secondary wide angle cutaway cam.

I would shoot in HD and downconvert (using GearShift) to either a proxy or intermediary codec (Cineform) for editing in Sony Veags 6c.

My question is, when I am mixing both HDV (Proxy of Cineform) and DV footage on the same timeline, which project setting should I be using for the editing (DV template for DVD, which would be the final destination or HDV template)?
Keeping in mind that my final destination for this will be standard MPEG2 for DVD.

I would like to take full advantage of the added resolution from the HDV footage to zoom in a cop the picture even better. I do know that doing this would unfortuantely add considerably to my render time.

Eventually, once there is a mainstream delivery format for DVD and editing and delivery can be done in less time, I will only be shoting with HDV cams of the same brand at least.
So if I get an A1U then I would get the same or at least an FX1. I would still keep my VX2100 for emergencies, but obviously sell my GL1 for funds to purchase the new HDV camera.

Thanks for the feedback
Michael

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

videobear
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Nov 4, 2005, 10:07 AM

Post #2 of 11 (1573 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Mixing HDV and DV in Vegas [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

I would like to take full advantage of the added resolution from the HDV footage to zoom in a cop the picture even better.

Mark, Jan Ozer used exactly this method in his "Battle of the NLEs" series. See the September 2005 issue of EventDV.

Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions

MLiebergot
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Nov 4, 2005, 10:25 AM

Post #3 of 11 (1570 views)
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Re: [videobear] Mixing HDV and DV in Vegas [In reply to]	Can't Post

Doug, thanks for the info. I forgot about that article, although some of her findings with Vegas were wrong, like multicam support etc.

So it seems that she recommends working with teh HDV template and editing both DV and HDV in this. She doesn't mention how the DV footage works and looks while in the HDV template, and the preview window display doesn't concern me much as I will be delivering in 4:3 not 16:9 anyway, since my VX2100 isn't natvie 16:9.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

DSE
Veteran

Nov 7, 2005, 10:02 AM

Post #4 of 11 (1537 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Mixing HDV and DV in Vegas [In reply to]	Can't Post

Jan's article wasn't all that helpful, IMO, so don't feel bad if you didn't get workflow advice from it. (BTW, Jan is a "he" not a "she")

In Vegas, the DV footage will only look a little washed compared to the HDV footage, otherwise, at quarter rez for the HDV, which is what the preview window will be by default, it will look great.

For project settings, I'd recommend using one of two, depending on your workflow;
1. Use the HDV template, and you'll need to use pan/crop to match the aspect ratio of the DV to match the HDV. They are slighly different pixel aspects.
2. Use the DV Widescreen template, and use pan/crop to match the aspect ratio of the HDV to match the DV.

You *may* need to saturate the DV footage just a touch to get it to match the chroma of the HDV. Keep in mind, you've got a preset in your color matrix to do just that, if you have GearShift. Use that preset if you wish.

Render the finished project to the DVD Widescreen template, and you're good to go.

Douglas Spotted Eagle
Author, producer, composer
www.vasst.com
"I enjoy music, long walks at sunset on the beach, and poking dead things with a sharp stick."

MLiebergot
Veteran

Nov 7, 2005, 11:14 AM

Post #5 of 11 (1532 views)
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Re: [DSE] Mixing HDV and DV in Vegas [In reply to]	Can't Post

"For project settings, I'd recommend using one of two, depending on your workflow;
1. Use the HDV template, and you'll need to use pan/crop to match the aspect ratio of the DV to match the HDV. They are slighly different pixel aspects.
2. Use the DV Widescreen template, and use pan/crop to match the aspect ratio of the HDV to match the DV. "

1. If I were to use the HDV template, and upsize the Dv footage to matc, would the DV footage get considerable softer?
2. If I use the DV Widescreen template, would I be able to zoom iin on the HDV footage. Also if I shot the DV footage in standard DV with SOny VX2100, would I have to upsize that as well to match 16:9 widescreen?

Does either the HDV or DV Widescreen templates work better than the other, for the final DVD, if it might be viewed on a HD set?
Also, would I be able to use the 4:3 DV template and scale the HDV footage appropriately, and would widescreen 16:9 work better when viewed on a HD TV, even if it's 4:3, like my Panasonic CT-27HL15 HDTV Monitor. I notice that my current DVD's made in standard 4:3 look crisper on my Panasonic CT-27HL15 HDTV Monitor (wich is a 4:3 screen size).

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

DSE
Veteran

Nov 7, 2005, 12:25 PM

Post #6 of 11 (1514 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Mixing HDV and DV in Vegas [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

"For project settings, I'd recommend using one of two, depending on your workflow;
1. Use the HDV template, and you'll need to use pan/crop to match the aspect ratio of the DV to match the HDV. They are slighly different pixel aspects.
2. Use the DV Widescreen template, and use pan/crop to match the aspect ratio of the HDV to match the DV. "

1. If I were to use the HDV template, and upsize the Dv footage to matc, would the DV footage get considerable softer?

Yes. You can add a touch of the Convolution Kernel Sharpening to the events though, and it will somewhat compensate. Check it on an external monitor, or secondary monitor.
2. If I use the DV Widescreen template, would I be able to zoom iin on the HDV footage. Also if I shot the DV footage in standard DV with SOny VX2100, would I have to upsize that as well to match 16:9 widescreen?
Yes, you'll be able to zoom in fairly deeply on the HDV footage. If you shoot 4:3 in the VX, you'll have to pan/crop to make it match the default widescreen of HDV/HD. I'm not sure why you'd go this route of upscaling DV to HDV though, because you're outputting to DVD, right? Better off putting HDV in a DV Widescreen template, and working from there, than the other way around, IMO.

Douglas Spotted Eagle
Author, producer, composer
www.vasst.com
"I enjoy music, long walks at sunset on the beach, and poking dead things with a sharp stick."

MLiebergot
Veteran

Nov 7, 2005, 12:59 PM

Post #7 of 11 (1508 views)
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Re: [DSE] Mixing HDV and DV in Vegas [In reply to]	Can't Post

"2. If I use the DV Widescreen template, would I be able to zoom iin on the HDV footage. Also if I shot the DV footage in standard DV with Sony VX2100, would I have to upsize that as well to match 16:9 widescreen?
Yes, you'll be able to zoom in fairly deeply on the HDV footage. If you shoot 4:3 in the VX, you'll have to pan/crop to make it match the default widescreen of HDV/HD. I'm not sure why you'd go this route of upscaling DV to HDV though, because you're outputting to DVD, right? Better off putting HDV in a DV Widescreen template, and working from there, than the other way around, IMO."

Thanks Douglas that pretty much aswered my questions. As I said I am going to start by adding 1 HDV camcaroder to work with my Sony DV cameras, and eventually only wrk with HDV cameras only.

So when mixing Dv and HDV, my workflow will be:
Using Standard Sony Widescreen template
Use both HDV (pan crop where necessary to zoom in on footage, where needed)
and DV 4:3 (resized slightly to work with 16:9)
and output to standard DVD.

What I meant before about upsizing the Sony DV footage for 16:9 widescreen earlier, was actually meant, using the Standard DV Widescreen template and not the HDV Widescreen. This way I would again use the HDV camera as my main, and zoom in appropriately, and use the VX2100 cameras as cutaway cams resized for 16;9.

Also a side note.
I have noticed that I have issues from time to time using Pan Crop on my video footage. As I get wavy lines that cut through my footage, when ever I zoom in on my footage.
However, this doesn't happen when I use Track Motion to zoom in slightly, although the footage gets slightly blurrier (which I would expect, being upresed) than when using Pan Crop.

I have no issues when I use pictures with Pan Crop.

Is this normal?

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

DSE
Veteran

Nov 7, 2005, 1:06 PM

Post #8 of 11 (1502 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Mixing HDV and DV in Vegas [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Also a side note.
I have noticed that I have issues from time to time using Pan Crop on my video footage. As I get wavy lines that cut through my footage, when ever I zoom in on my footage.

This is normal, as you're shifting fields, and likely creating upper field first situations. If you see this, try dropping the horizontal in your pan/crop by 1 value, that usually will fix the issue.

Douglas Spotted Eagle
Author, producer, composer
www.vasst.com
"I enjoy music, long walks at sunset on the beach, and poking dead things with a sharp stick."

MLiebergot
Veteran

Nov 7, 2005, 1:23 PM

Post #9 of 11 (1497 views)
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Re: [DSE] Mixing HDV and DV in Vegas [In reply to]	Can't Post

"This is normal, as you're shifting fields, and likely creating upper field first situations. If you see this, try dropping the horizontal in your pan/crop by 1 value, that usually will fix the issue."

Sorry. What do you mean drop the horizontal by 1 value? Where in my Pan Crop is this?

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

DSE
Veteran

Nov 7, 2005, 1:26 PM

Post #10 of 11 (1493 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Mixing HDV and DV in Vegas [In reply to]	Can't Post

In the Pan/crop dialog, you can either use your up/down arrows, or you can use the dialog to the side to drop it by one value.

Douglas Spotted Eagle
Author, producer, composer
www.vasst.com
"I enjoy music, long walks at sunset on the beach, and poking dead things with a sharp stick."

MLiebergot
Veteran

Nov 7, 2005, 1:34 PM

Post #11 of 11 (1493 views)
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Re: [DSE] Mixing HDV and DV in Vegas [In reply to]	Can't Post

"In the Pan/crop dialog, you can either use your up/down arrows, or you can use the dialog to the side to drop it by one value."

Do you mean, just nudge the pan crop camera down 1.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!