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Home: Video University Forums: HDV:
On the Wire...

 

 


Laura K
Veteran


Mar 11, 2005, 7:37 AM

Post #1 of 16 (2892 views)
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On the Wire... Can't Post

http://www.physorg.com/news3348.html


"... it seems that if you're passionate about something, it freaks people out. You're considered bizarre or eccentric. To me, it just means you know who you are." - director Tim Burton


Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.


Jeff N
Veteran


Mar 11, 2005, 7:49 AM

Post #2 of 16 (2881 views)
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Re: [Laura K] On the Wire... [In reply to] Can't Post

Looking more and more like Blu-Ray is going to win the HD-DVD war.
---------------------------------------------------------
Jeff
www . eriekids . com


Storm Crow
Veteran


Mar 11, 2005, 8:08 AM

Post #3 of 16 (2875 views)
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Re: [Laura K] On the Wire... [In reply to] Can't Post

Very cool news Laura, thanks for sharing! I've been cheering for the Blu-Ray because of the increased storage capacity and the fact that Sony is involved with this. Go Blu-Ray!Cool
_________________________________________________

Good Friend, around these hearth stones, speak no evil of any creature.

Warning: Exposure to the Son can prevent burn!
_________________________________________________


Laura K
Veteran


Mar 11, 2005, 1:41 PM

Post #4 of 16 (2782 views)
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Re: [Storm Crow] On the Wire... [In reply to] Can't Post

Another note...


Quote
Besides Sony and Matsushita, the Blu-ray's backers include Round Rock, Dell Inc., Hewlett-Packard Co., Walt Disney Co., Thomson, (the world's largest supplier of recorded DVDs), Hitachi, Ltd.; LG Electronics Inc.; Mitsubishi Electric Corporation; Pioneer Corporation; Royal Philips Electronics; Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.; Sharp Corporation; TDK Corporation; Thomson; Twentieth Century Fox; and Walt Disney Pictures and Television.



Ya, looks like we have a winner here. Ding, ding, ding.
With all of these on board and Apple I think Blu-Ray has won the battle. With this turn I think the clock is going to speed up. I believe we are going to see HD delivery very soon.

Kinda like predicting a "delivery" date and time with a few more variables. Very exciting.
L


"... it seems that if you're passionate about something, it freaks people out. You're considered bizarre or eccentric. To me, it just means you know who you are." - director Tim Burton


Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.


ADP Wavefront
Enthusiast

Mar 12, 2005, 5:19 PM

Post #5 of 16 (2698 views)
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Re: [Laura K] On the Wire... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm excited about Blu-Ray too but....the burners are probally going to cost an arm and a leg at first so I'll wait a bit.

V.U. California Crew, L.A. Chapter


EricSmith
Novice

Mar 12, 2005, 6:44 PM

Post #6 of 16 (2681 views)
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Re: [Laura K] On the Wire... [In reply to] Can't Post

Sony has lots of money and they are aggressive. I would always put my money on Sony.


Mathew
Veteran

Mar 12, 2005, 7:02 PM

Post #7 of 16 (2675 views)
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Re: [EricSmith] On the Wire... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Sony has lots of money and they are aggressive. I would always put my money on Sony.


Not quite. Beta, SACD etc. have all failed in the consumer market despite the Sony name.

It's interesting seeing this cooperation between Apple and Sony. Both companies tend to push too hard for proprietary technologies which usually hurt them in the long run. I'm looking forward to what they come out with though in the near future.


EricSmith
Novice

Mar 12, 2005, 7:46 PM

Post #8 of 16 (2671 views)
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Re: [Mathew] On the Wire... [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes Sony didn't have the best record with Beta in the consumer market, but it's still used to this day in the broadcast world... Digi Beta that is.... I know blue-ray DVD and HD-DVD have consumers in mind but do you really think the average joe will embrace the technology like the professional market... No.


Laura K
Veteran


Mar 13, 2005, 10:44 AM

Post #9 of 16 (2606 views)
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Re: [EricSmith] On the Wire... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think these names have learned their lesson. They know that despite the quality of the product, it has to be affordable to the mainstream to take off. I believe they know that now. I also believe that affordability will come fast, probably faster than before.
L


"... it seems that if you're passionate about something, it freaks people out. You're considered bizarre or eccentric. To me, it just means you know who you are." - director Tim Burton


Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.


DVman
User

Mar 14, 2005, 2:26 AM

Post #10 of 16 (2576 views)
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Re: [EricSmith] On the Wire... [In reply to] Can't Post

Sony failed not only with the Betamax format for the consumer market but also when it introduced the prosumer format ED BETA which was designed to compete with Super VHS. Despite Betamax being superior to VHS and ED Beta being superior to Super VHS, both Sony formats were loser formats in the end. ED Beta boasted over 500 lines of resolution and much better chroma rendition than Super VHS (400 lines) and had better cameras back then. However it never really made it. And you are right DigiBeta is still used, same as Betacam SP which is still considered one of the most successful formats ever and believe it or not, it is perhaps the most popular format for TV broadcast stations around the world despite being an analog format.


In Reply To
Yes Sony didn't have the best record with Beta in the consumer market, but it's still used to this day in the broadcast world... Digi Beta that is.... I know blue-ray DVD and HD-DVD have consumers in mind but do you really think the average joe will embrace the technology like the professional market... No.



DVman
User

Mar 14, 2005, 2:40 AM

Post #11 of 16 (2575 views)
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Re: [Laura K] On the Wire... [In reply to] Can't Post

That sounds more hopeful than real. Because initial production costs are so high, it is hard or next to impossible to introduce a product affordable for the few who have adopted an introductory format. Those decks are going to be quite expensive at fist. It is true that they will not be as expensive as the initial cost of DVD recorders, $40,000. But there were reports already that those Blue Ray decks are going to be around $11 to $12K and that price will not drop as fast as you would think or wish. Even Sony wishes they could introduce something affordable but they are limited by their production costs and the relative supply & demand equation which is not always favorable to the consumer. The reason: expensive initial capital outlays on technology. Simply put, they can't give away technology with the hope that in the future they will see an increase on ROI. All technology based products have to go through a cycle. And that cycle is unavoidable.



In Reply To
I think these names have learned their lesson. They know that despite the quality of the product, it has to be affordable to the mainstream to take off. I believe they know that now. I also believe that affordability will come fast, probably faster than before.
L



(This post was edited by DVman on Mar 14, 2005, 2:44 AM)


Laura K
Veteran


Mar 14, 2005, 7:55 AM

Post #12 of 16 (2562 views)
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Re: [DVman] On the Wire... [In reply to] Can't Post

While I agree they have to go through a cycle I do believe the speed of that cycle will be faster than in the past. Much faster. If you look at the speed that new technology is introduced in relation to the time at which it is generally accepted by it's conumer public, that time span is increasingly shortened. Dual layer dvd will almost be a skipped step on the ladder.

Look at the major advances in medicine, technology and science. The speed at which we make advances farther toward certain cures, the faster our computers are and their incredible capabilities, the deeper we explore space....all show a distinct jump in speed and that speed is multiplied with each new advance. A study of the last hundred years in relation to the last 50, 25, 10, 5 or 6 months I believe shows that relationship.

Hopeful? Well yes of course. Reality? Well I suppose we will see. Yes, the initial decks will be quite costly. So much so that only major companies and developers will purchase them. That is always the way it is. Somebody has to test. However, in order for the blu-ray to take off with a fast solid start against any other competing HD technology these companies have one option....make it available to their target consumer and do so fast.

I don't believe that anyone thought they would see a consumer affordable HD camera either. It wasn't introduced at a price people couldn't pay however. I think we are seeing more of that; products introduced directly for their target level of purchaser instead of being so high priced that they are unatainable.

We'll see. I am sure this timeline is going to unfold rather quickly and we should be able to have an answer in the coming year.

L


"... it seems that if you're passionate about something, it freaks people out. You're considered bizarre or eccentric. To me, it just means you know who you are." - director Tim Burton


Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.


DVman
User

Mar 14, 2005, 12:55 PM

Post #13 of 16 (2553 views)
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Re: [Laura K] On the Wire... [In reply to] Can't Post

Trust me. The introduction to the HDV format is not going to be as smooth as you may assume. I've seen so many "wonderful" formats introduced in my 25 years in the business, all suposedly quantum leap technologies, and it has only been the same. Don't believe in miracles. I own a Z1 camera and I am not that hopeful. "Fasten your seatbelts 'cause it is going to be a wild ride ".




In Reply To
While I agree they have to go through a cycle I do believe the speed of that cycle will be faster than in the past. Much faster. If you look at the speed that new technology is introduced in relation to the time at which it is generally accepted by it's conumer public, that time span is increasingly shortened. Dual layer dvd will almost be a skipped step on the ladder.

Look at the major advances in medicine, technology and science. The speed at which we make advances farther toward certain cures, the faster our computers are and their incredible capabilities, the deeper we explore space....all show a distinct jump in speed and that speed is multiplied with each new advance. A study of the last hundred years in relation to the last 50, 25, 10, 5 or 6 months I believe shows that relationship.

Hopeful? Well yes of course. Reality? Well I suppose we will see. Yes, the initial decks will be quite costly. So much so that only major companies and developers will purchase them. That is always the way it is. Somebody has to test. However, in order for the blu-ray to take off with a fast solid start against any other competing HD technology these companies have one option....make it available to their target consumer and do so fast.

I don't believe that anyone thought they would see a consumer affordable HD camera either. It wasn't introduced at a price people couldn't pay however. I think we are seeing more of that; products introduced directly for their target level of purchaser instead of being so high priced that they are unatainable.

We'll see. I am sure this timeline is going to unfold rather quickly and we should be able to have an answer in the coming year.

L



Bob Hudson
User

Mar 15, 2005, 4:02 AM

Post #14 of 16 (2520 views)
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Re: [DVman] On the Wire... [In reply to] Can't Post

"Dual layer dvd will almost be a skipped step on the ladder." Well, actually no, most of the DVD's people buy are and have been DVD-9 for quite some time.

Only about three to five percent of US TV households can actually receive AND watch HDTV right now, but millions more are going out and spending lots and lots of money on very expensive LCD and plasma screens that are not HD at all. There is a tremendous amount of spending required on all sides - consumers, producers, distributors - for HD to become commonplace and right now it is a very small piece of the the pie and there is little incentive to spend that money. 99 percent of TV is junk and who wants to pay extra just to see it with more pixels? Cable and satellite operators aren't excited about using up bandwidth for HD when they know they cannot make any extra money from it - same for TV stations purchasing HD equipment.

Equipment makers are the only ones who stand to make money from the migration to HD; for everyone else it's an expense. Oh, a few of you may make a few extra bucks initially because you convince some clients that your HDV camcorder gives you some sort of edge, but as such camcorcders become more common and clients catch on that for most of them there is no HD distribution, any premiums go by the wayside.

There certainly is a niche, but right now, there is only one question about HD and HDV that has any meaning:

How well does it downconvert to standard definition?


DVman
User

Mar 15, 2005, 4:27 AM

Post #15 of 16 (2511 views)
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Re: [Bob Hudson] On the Wire... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Bob:

You quoted me incorrectly 'cause I was not the one who posted such thoughts. In any case, you are definitely right, definitely ! And you know what can really kill the HDV format .... a recession. If that were to happen, that can slow down substantially the HD revolution.

On the lighter side and maybe a positive one for the HDV format, and not as glamorous as it may appear, the porn industry (no giggles here) could be a deciding factor. It was the porn industry which made the 16mm and Super 8 film projector manufacturers boom in the early 70s. It was the porn industry which made VHS and Betamax decks so popular in the 80s. People rushed to buy projectors and tape recorders by the thousands just to watch the latest XXX flick. It was actually the porn industry which helped paved the way for laserdisc and DVD players to become quite popular. It was the porn industry which made use of DV cameras from its inception to the market. I am not an advocate or supporter of porn films in any way. But it would be interesting to make a sociological study of the influence of porn on society and its technological breakthroughs. I bet it is going to be the porn industry one of the first to implement HDV in their productions. And then everyboby will rush to buy HDTV sets and decks.



In Reply To
"Dual layer dvd will almost be a skipped step on the ladder." Well, actually no, most of the DVD's people buy are and have been DVD-9 for quite some time.

Only about three to five percent of US TV households can actually receive AND watch HDTV right now, but millions more are going out and spending lots and lots of money on very expensive LCD and plasma screens that are not HD at all. There is a tremendous amount of spending required on all sides - consumers, producers, distributors - for HD to become commonplace and right now it is a very small piece of the the pie and there is little incentive to spend that money. 99 percent of TV is junk and who wants to pay extra just to see it with more pixels? Cable and satellite operators aren't excited about using up bandwidth for HD when they know they cannot make any extra money from it - same for TV stations purchasing HD equipment.

Equipment makers are the only ones who stand to make money from the migration to HD; for everyone else it's an expense. Oh, a few of you may make a few extra bucks initially because you convince some clients that your HDV camcorder gives you some sort of edge, but as such camcorcders become more common and clients catch on that for most of them there is no HD distribution, any premiums go by the wayside.

There certainly is a niche, but right now, there is only one question about HD and HDV that has any meaning:

How well does it downconvert to standard definition?



(This post was edited by DVman on Mar 15, 2005, 11:03 AM)


DSE
Veteran


Mar 15, 2005, 11:46 AM

Post #16 of 16 (2485 views)
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Re: [Laura K] On the Wire... [In reply to] Can't Post

Post: While I agree they have to go through a cycle I do believe the speed of that cycle will be faster than in the past. Much faster. If you look at the speed that new technology is introduced in relation to the time at which it is generally accepted by it's conumer public, that time span is increasingly shortened. Dual layer dvd will almost be a skipped step on the ladder. Funny thing, Laura, while many might disagree...for better or worse most of the industry leaders and projectors agree with you on this one. The rapid insertion of HD delivery is very much expected, it's believed that in 24 months, the majority of shooters at all "professional" (income driven acquisition) will be in HD of some flavor. However, the display technologies will still be far behind, ergo; ED and semi-HDTV will rule the day, unless someone pops out a plasma or LCD that is truly cheap, truly good, and truly 1920 x 1080.

Douglas Spotted Eagle
Author, producer, composer
www.vasst.com
"I enjoy music, long walks at sunset on the beach, and poking dead things with a sharp stick."