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Home: Video University Forums: HDV:
Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD?

 
 


AndrewMSV
Veteran


Mar 15, 2006, 4:58 AM

Post #1 of 15 (1865 views)
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Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD? Can't Post
Another post lead me to want to post this poll...

Which do you prefer? (And why?)

1) Shoot HDV 16:9 and output 16:9 SD
2) Shoot 16:9 SD and out put 16:9 SD
3) Other

Also, do you upsell your clients to 16:9 and so on, or do you just do it? Do you expect or ask them to pay more for you to shoot with your HDV cam?

Cheers!

Andrew
m o r n i n g__s t a r__v i d e o g r a p h y
sf chapter, vu california crew
I think we should turn that whole region into one shiny piece of radioactive glass. - CartoonChris



Stoney
User


Mar 15, 2006, 9:51 AM

Post #2 of 15 (1858 views)
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Re: [AndrewMSV] Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD? [In reply to] Can't Post
I just got a Sony Z1 at work and after seeing the quality, I would vote for HDV 16:9 to SD 16:9. Since I don't have HDV for my personal use, I normally do 4:3. Sometimes with a letter box, depending on the project.
Stoney
LE 6.1, DVC-80, GL-1 & TRV900


DavidRennie
User

Mar 15, 2006, 10:10 AM

Post #3 of 15 (1856 views)
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Re: [AndrewMSV] Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD? [In reply to] Can't Post
3) 4:3 is our standard offerring. 16:9 either SD or HD are both upgrades which cost additional $$ and I only use my fx1s if they pay for HD. Naturally HD productions are 16:9 only. With this strategy I find those couples interested in 16:9 just go ahead and pop for the additional $$ to get the video in HD.

As I indicated in my earlier post HD is not very forgiving when compared to SD. As a result I find you must be "on your game" the entire time or you risk having footage you would not be able to use. There is no doubt a longer learning curve with HD gear and perhaps I am still going through some of that but I have heard the same comments made by other videographers which have made the jump to HD.


AndrewMSV
Veteran


Mar 15, 2006, 2:05 PM

Post #4 of 15 (1835 views)
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Re: [DavidRennie] Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD? [In reply to] Can't Post
Quote
With this strategy I find those couples interested in 16:9 just go ahead and pop for the additional $$ to get the video in HD.
When you say this do you mean that they get their product in SD 16:9 but can have the option of upgrading to full HD when the technology is available?

Cheers!

Andrew
m o r n i n g__s t a r__v i d e o g r a p h y
sf chapter, vu california crew
I think we should turn that whole region into one shiny piece of radioactive glass. - CartoonChris



DavidRennie
User

Mar 15, 2006, 2:24 PM

Post #5 of 15 (1832 views)
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Re: [AndrewMSV] Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD? [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
Quote
With this strategy I find those couples interested in 16:9 just go ahead and pop for the additional $$ to get the video in HD.
When you say this do you mean that they get their product in SD 16:9 but can have the option of upgrading to full HD when the technology is available?

Cheers!
No, I have three pricing "tiers", SD 4:3, SD 16:9, and HD 16:9. If they opt for SD 16:9 then it is shot in SD and obivously it can't be converted to HD. That is why if they are willing to pop for SD 16:9, then it is an easy sell to get them to go HD. HD clients get a 16:9 DVD "today" which obviously is not HD and will get a second batch of HD-DVD's (or BluRay) when they are available. Of course I have language in the agreement which protects me from being forced to buy the burners when they first come out and cost an arm and a leg...

Likely in 2007 I will do away with the SD 4:3 option. I really prefer shooting in the 16:9 format.


KevinShaw
Veteran

Mar 16, 2006, 8:40 AM

Post #6 of 15 (1799 views)
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Re: [AndrewMSV] Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD? [In reply to] Can't Post
My preference at this point is to shoot everything in HDV (at no additional charge), then output whatever the customer wants and is willing to pay for. Either standard SD or widescreen SD is normal price, with an extra fee if someone wants both. HD output definitely costs extra because that requires pushing my editing setup harder, whereas for SD projects I can opt to downsample to SD out of the camera. So far most people are still fine with SD options, but that may change soon as mainstream HD delivery becomes a reality with the introduction of the Toshiba HD DVD players.


DavidRennie
User

Mar 16, 2006, 10:42 AM

Post #7 of 15 (1794 views)
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Re: [kwshaw1] Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD? [In reply to] Can't Post
perhaps I am wrong or its just the former accountant in me, but I just want to get as much money out of my SD cameras as I can and by doing so save the wear and tear on my HDV cameras. I see no point (personally) shooting with newer HDV cameras if the client did not pay for HD. I have seen it suggested to shoot in HD regardless, and try to sell them on HD at some future point. I suspect and of course only time will tell, but I suspect it will be nearly impossible to get a client to purchase an HD version a year or more later. If they did not value the video enough to purchase HD to start with, how likely is that to change a year or more later when they already have it on DVD?


(This post was edited by DavidRennie on Mar 16, 2006, 10:42 AM)


KevinShaw
Veteran

Mar 16, 2006, 1:43 PM

Post #8 of 15 (1785 views)
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Re: [DavidRennie] Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD? [In reply to] Can't Post
The accountant in me is saying it may be time to sell my SD cameras while I can still get something for them. Anyone wanna buy a Canon GL1/GL2 setup with plenty of batteries and other accessories? PM me if interested.


krskrewz
Enthusiast


Mar 16, 2006, 3:50 PM

Post #9 of 15 (1771 views)
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Re: [AndrewMSV] Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD? [In reply to] Can't Post
I would prefer shooting in 16:9 SD and outputting in 16:9 SD just because SD footage is so much easier to work with. But i'm opting to just go ahead and shoot in 16:9 HDV so that i'll be able to create a good collection of HD Clips / Chapters / Highlights to put onto HD DVD or Blu-Ray some time in the future. At least with shooting in HDV, I can still output in SD with the option of rendering my work in HD for demos when the time comes.

Also, I don't do any upselling for 16:9 widescreen. I just make it standard to my packages. I also do not charge more for shooting with my HDV cams simply because out of the 4 cameras in my arsenal, HDV is all that I have. For a while I gave the client the option of purchasing HD Raw Footage Masters on Mini DV or SD Raw Footage Masters. I decided to just offer HD Masters now because if I were to sell SD Masters, I would have to change my settings to record in SD and I would not have any hd footage (for that particular event) in the future to work with for demo / portfolio. The pricing for the SD Masters I did not think was worth the value of having hd footage/chapters/clips/highlights for my purposes in the future.

Good Luck!


(This post was edited by krskrewz on Mar 16, 2006, 4:04 PM)


DavidRennie
User

Mar 16, 2006, 4:24 PM

Post #10 of 15 (1762 views)
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Re: [kwshaw1] Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD? [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
The accountant in me is saying it may be time to sell my SD cameras while I can still get something for them. Anyone wanna buy a Canon GL1/GL2 setup with plenty of batteries and other accessories? PM me if interested.
To late for that, besides which they can make more money for you in shooting than in resale. In my case it is a DVC80 and DVX100's I would need to move. With HDV being the future, saving wear and tear on them means they will have a longer production cycle (hopefully) in the HD era...


DavidRennie
User

Mar 16, 2006, 4:26 PM

Post #11 of 15 (1759 views)
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Re: [krskrewz] Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD? [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
I would prefer shooting in 16:9 SD and outputting in 16:9 SD just because SD footage is so much easier to work with. But i'm opting to just go ahead and shoot in 16:9 HDV so that i'll be able to create a good collection of HD Clips / Chapters / Highlights to put onto HD DVD or Blu-Ray some time in the future.
 That makes sense and I can understand very easily why you would do that. Makes it easier to sell the upgrade to HD when you have some decent HD footage to show other prospects.


KevinShaw
Veteran

Mar 16, 2006, 6:35 PM

Post #12 of 15 (1751 views)
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Re: [DavidRennie] Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD? [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
With HDV being the future, saving wear and tear on them means they will have a longer production cycle (hopefully) in the HD era...
Interesting point, but I have a hard time shooting anything in SD after seeing what HDV has to offer. Not only do I get to build up my HD demo library, but I can offer better widescreen output and have more flexibility in terms of cropping/zooming shots during editing. Nah, there's really not much point in keeping the DV cameras now, other than as playback decks for old DV tapes.


krskrewz
Enthusiast


Mar 16, 2006, 9:06 PM

Post #13 of 15 (1737 views)
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Re: [kwshaw1] Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD? [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
In Reply To
With HDV being the future, saving wear and tear on them means they will have a longer production cycle (hopefully) in the HD era...
Interesting point, but I have a hard time shooting anything in SD after seeing what HDV has to offer. Not only do I get to build up my HD demo library, but I can offer better widescreen output and have more flexibility in terms of cropping/zooming shots during editing. Nah, there's really not much point in keeping the DV cameras now, other than as playback decks for old DV tapes.

I have a smaller dv cam that I use for rewinding tapes. The amount of life it saves on my other cams is probably negligible though.


DavidRennie
User

Mar 16, 2006, 9:31 PM

Post #14 of 15 (1736 views)
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Re: [krskrewz] Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD? [In reply to] Can't Post
I do the same thing, I have a DVC15 that I hardly ever shoot with any more but I use it to rewind tapes and for logging SD footage. Rewinding I have heard is really hard on the heads, I don't know if it is true or not, but does sound like either one of us will really need to worry about it.


bruceo
Veteran


Mar 16, 2006, 11:22 PM

Post #15 of 15 (1727 views)
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Re: [DavidRennie] Poll: HDV or 16:9 SD? [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
perhaps I am wrong or its just the former accountant in me, but I just want to get as much money out of my SD cameras as I can and by doing so save the wear and tear on my HDV cameras. I see no point (personally) shooting with newer HDV cameras if the client did not pay for HD. I have seen it suggested to shoot in HD regardless, and try to sell them on HD at some future point. I suspect and of course only time will tell, but I suspect it will be nearly impossible to get a client to purchase an HD version a year or more later. If they did not value the video enough to purchase HD to start with, how likely is that to change a year or more later when they already have it on DVD?

The only way they will not be interested in getting an HD version is if you produce a crappy video. If they love their video they will be interested. for the last 5-6 months I have averaged 500-800 in after SD delivery upgrades from their initial package (averaging $2800 at that time) When they are booking you they are normally strapped and 5-6 months later many will br out from under the budget constraints.

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