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Home: Video University Forums: HDV:
Question for FX-1/Z1 users ...

 
 


David L
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May 2, 2006, 11:42 AM

Post #1 of 15 (3135 views)
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Question for FX-1/Z1 users ... Can't Post
We all know that the lowlight capabilities of the FX1/Z1 are not quite up to the PD-170/VX2100 cams ... but have you, the FX1/Z1 user, ever been forced to use extra lighting during a ceremony? Or is it only a matter of using more lighting at the reception?

I'm contemplating an FX-1 but shudder at the thought of using extra lighting at a ceremony. Thanks.


KevinShaw
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May 2, 2006, 2:16 PM

Post #2 of 15 (3121 views)
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Re: [David L] Question for FX-1/Z1 users ... [In reply to] Can't Post
I can't imagine using extra lighting at a wedding ceremony unless it was outside at night or something like that. For regular church weddings the FX1/Z1U are fine for the churches I've worked in, but you may need to pay extra attention to how you set your exposure and be prepared to do some finessing of footage in post. If you regularly shoot in churches where even the PD170/VX2100 can barely get an adequate exposure, you may want to test any HD camera you're considering buying before making a purchase.


David L
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May 2, 2006, 4:12 PM

Post #3 of 15 (3112 views)
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Re: [kwshaw1] Question for FX-1/Z1 users ... [In reply to] Can't Post
Thanks Kevin.


KevinShaw
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May 2, 2006, 4:33 PM

Post #4 of 15 (3110 views)
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Re: [David L] Question for FX-1/Z1 users ... [In reply to] Can't Post
You're welcome. By the way, the FX1/Z1U can function in fairly dim lighting if you allow plenty of gain and switch to 1/30 second shutter speed for extreme situations, plus adjust the brightness curve in post if necessary. Here's a sample clip of an FX1 running at 1/60 second with the gain and iris on auto, going from full room light to single candle power (no post adjustments):

http://www.videomem.com/...sample1/FX1_720p.wmv


defocus
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May 3, 2006, 2:05 PM

Post #5 of 15 (3078 views)
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Re: [kwshaw1] Question for FX-1/Z1 users ... [In reply to] Can't Post
The single candle shot doesn't look that bad. It takes on a nice film-like noise effect. Something like that is totally acceptable for reception footage.



thirteen years old and one bad kitty


KevinShaw
Veteran

May 3, 2006, 9:33 PM

Post #6 of 15 (3051 views)
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Re: [defocus] Question for FX-1/Z1 users ... [In reply to] Can't Post
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The single candle shot doesn't look that bad. It takes on a nice film-like noise effect. Something like that is totally acceptable for reception footage.
I agree, and note you can do better than that by switching to 1/30 second shutter speed and/or enhancing brightness in post. With a little tweaking I got the single-candle FX1 shot to look a lot like unmodified footage from DV cameras of the same scene in terms of brightness. Of course the DV footage can also be boosted, but it tends to show grain more easily and hence not boost as much. The FX1 clearly isn't as good in low light as something like a PD170, but it's usable.


David L
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May 4, 2006, 2:44 PM

Post #7 of 15 (3011 views)
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Re: [kwshaw1] Question for FX-1/Z1 users ... [In reply to] Can't Post
Thanks Kevin: do you happen to have a link to the 'tweaked" footage? or a frame grab?

By the way, I hope that guy got out of that room okay ...


KevinShaw
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May 6, 2006, 10:30 PM

Post #8 of 15 (2965 views)
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Re: [David L] Question for FX-1/Z1 users ... [In reply to] Can't Post
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Thanks Kevin: do you happen to have a link to the 'tweaked" footage? or a frame grab?
By the way, I hope that guy got out of that room okay ...
I'll try to remember to post something from the modified clip to show what's possible with the FX1 in low light.

P.S. the guy in the shot is my brother: he's fine.

Smile


clock
Veteran


May 7, 2006, 4:45 AM

Post #9 of 15 (2959 views)
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Re: [David L] Question for FX-1/Z1 users ... [In reply to] Can't Post
Here's a link to a comparison I showed a while back:
http://www.videouniversity.com/...i?post=285982#285982

Cheers

Jeremy

SUCCESS comes before WORK only in the dictionary


ourweddingvideo
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May 8, 2006, 11:32 AM

Post #10 of 15 (2919 views)
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Re: [kwshaw1] Question for FX-1/Z1 users ... [In reply to] Can't Post
The issue with the Sony HDs is not so much low light as this is only a small concern during some reception situation.
The real problem is the rolling iris and back lighting.
These camera rolls the iris even when set to manual, when one zooms in, this of course will darken the image. Plus back lighting has probably half the latitude of most midrange DV cameras causing one to either blow out the background to save the skin tone or save the background and try to fix the skin in post, either way it's a pain.


videobear
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May 8, 2006, 3:16 PM

Post #11 of 15 (2914 views)
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Re: [ourweddingvideo] Question for FX-1/Z1 users ... [In reply to] Can't Post
Quote
These camera rolls the iris even when set to manual, when one zooms in, this of course will darken the image.

This isn't a fault of the FX-1/Z-1. ALL variable focal length lenses are less light sensitive at the telephoto end of their range. The camera is not changing the iris; the effect is happening in the lens optics.

I see it on my DV-500.




Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions


RustyB
Veteran


May 8, 2006, 3:42 PM

Post #12 of 15 (2913 views)
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Re: [videobear] Question for FX-1/Z1 users ... [In reply to] Can't Post
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Quote
These camera rolls the iris even when set to manual, when one zooms in, this of course will darken the image.

This isn't a fault of the FX-1/Z-1. ALL variable focal length lenses are less light sensitive at the telephoto end of their range. The camera is not changing the iris; the effect is happening in the lens optics.

I see it on my DV-500.

You have to be careful on the FX1, you have to make sure you have the gain and shutter speed in manual, as well as the iris.

I think this is probably the trouble ourweddingvideo is having. If you put the iris in manual, and try to shoot a backlit subject, it will turn off the gain, and I believe turn up the shutter speed as well, to compensate. It's very different than the VX2000.

You have to put everything in manual. In a dark reception hall, you pretty much have to open the iris all the way up (and make sure it stays open between zooms), put the manual gain on "HIGH", and set the shutter speed to 60...or 30 in many cases if you actually want to be able to see whats going on out of the reach of your light. Setting different presets for the two different shutter speeds is a good idea too, so it's only a matter of flicking a switch when you change from 60 to 30.



Faith Poison Wedding Films Blog
Intergalactic Award-Winning Epic-Cinematic Wedding New-Doc Style Indie Fusion Bridal Movies on Hi-Definition Blu-Ray Disc


defocus
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May 8, 2006, 4:56 PM

Post #13 of 15 (2908 views)
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Re: [RustyB] Question for FX-1/Z1 users ... [In reply to] Can't Post
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You have to be careful on the FX1, you have to make sure you have the gain and shutter speed in manual, as well as the iris.
I used the FX1 to shoot some news documentary the other day and I had known about this issue with the Sony PD150 I used 4 years ago. It seems very unintuitive. I prefer Canon's implementation of manual controls.



thirteen years old and one bad kitty


ourweddingvideo
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May 8, 2006, 6:48 PM

Post #14 of 15 (2902 views)
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Re: [defocus] Question for FX-1/Z1 users ... [In reply to] Can't Post
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In Reply To
You have to be careful on the FX1, you have to make sure you have the gain and shutter speed in manual, as well as the iris.
I used the FX1 to shoot some news documentary the other day and I had known about this issue with the Sony PD150 I used 4 years ago. It seems very unintuitive. I prefer Canon's implementation of manual controls.


Chuck_e7
Veteran


May 10, 2006, 12:47 PM

Post #15 of 15 (2857 views)
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Re: [RustyB] Question for FX-1/Z1 users ... [In reply to] Can't Post
With a 50w light, I have no lighting problems in a reception. Or, I make them turn up the room lights!







"600 yards out, I can still see you!"