Video University: Video University Forums: HDV: SONIC shows its new EXPENSIVE Blueray HDVD

VideoUniversity.com
Home	Free Library	Store
Free Catalog Please support VU by making your B&H purchases and links through this B&H ad. Doesn't cost a penny more.

See The New VU Postcard Catalog

To post in the forums see the Forum Guidelines.

Join or Renew Today.
New Benefits for all VU Members

Forum Guidelines and FAQ
Main Index	Search Posts
Who's Online	Log In

Home: Video University Forums: HDV:
SONIC shows its new EXPENSIVE Blueray HDVD

avguy75
Novice

Feb 24, 2005, 7:28 PM

Post #1 of 9 (1430 views)
Shortcut

SONIC shows its new EXPENSIVE Blueray HDVD	Can't Post

I was at a group meeting where a spokes person for
Sonic was showing off their new Blue Ray HDVD equipment.

Too much info for me to throw out here, but the prices
scared me. And one guy was even
extremely outspoken against their prices. Starting at
13K for just some of the programs and moving up. I'm
sure those of you who are more in the know , know
about all the Blue Ray double sided DVD stuff and what
it is all going to cost at first when it comes out.

It scared me because I thought," Man is this is going
to be the new wave, this year or by 06 . . .there is
no way I am going to be able to afford that . . so why
bother even getting off on my own?" I mean if this is
going to be the main stream and people start wanting
Blue Ray DVDs for their weddings, commercials for
local businesses, or whatever . . how does an
independant even get in on the action?

The spokes person did say some hopeful things though .
. he said when DVD production first became available
to the public it was at 40K or higer and the prices
did drop dramatically over the years .. and now SONIC
is just starting at 13 to 25 K, and their prices will
have to drop dramatically over the years too. So that
made me feel a little better. And he added that Blue
Ray DVD players that played the HDDVD format would be
backwards compatible . . so if somebody still wanted a
simple DVD, smaller independants would still be able
to make some money too since many people don't want a
Blue Ray DVD for their small events.

But do I just go on and purchase my own G5 and
continue with plans to make indy DVDs for different
events? Would you all?

Just some food for discussion

adtr
Veteran

Feb 25, 2005, 1:12 AM

Post #2 of 9 (1412 views)
Shortcut

Re: [avguy75] SONIC shows its new EXPENSIVE Blueray HDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think videographers are in for a very hard time, when we will be squeezed by what suppliers offer us and what customers will pay. I can see the middle ground falling away as suppliers try to hustle us to pro (expensive ) formats. HDV is expensive enough but what is the next stage going to cost?
It is hard enough to get our worth as a good dv shooter/editor. HDV at least has a short premium as a novelty but the way everyone is jumping on board, that could knacker prices by next year. I already hear people saying " Well it's only another format so why charge more?" There is a limit to what the customer will pay. The only way that will change is if more is included in the package or the "normal" price rises.

Colvin Eccleston
manchesterweddingstudio.co.uk

KevinShaw
Veteran

Mar 3, 2005, 12:41 AM

Post #3 of 9 (1354 views)
Shortcut

Re: [adtr] SONIC shows its new EXPENSIVE Blueray HDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

We're already seeing affordable HD distribution options developing, so blu-ray could be DOA for consumer purposes based on the high price. I figure it this way: if they can't bring blu-ray costs down to commodity levels, then only the richest techno-geek customers will buy it, and everyone else will use less expensive solutions. So for now blu-ray is out of the picture for small producers, and only medium to large shops will bother to offer it. This will create one of many distinctions between different levels of production, with corresponding cost differences.

It does seem that there is a limit to what people are willing to pay for high-definition video, even though they seem to really like it. My solution is to force them to get a more expensive package to even have the option of getting HD, so as you say they're getting more on several fronts. But if HD makes people willing to pay even a little more for video, it will achieve something that all our yammering about charging more for our work hasn't done.

Bob Hudson
User

Mar 3, 2005, 1:18 AM

Post #4 of 9 (1349 views)
Shortcut

Re: [adtr] SONIC shows its new EXPENSIVE Blueray HDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

"I think videographers are in for a very hard time, when we will be squeezed by what suppliers offer us and what customers will pay. I can see the middle ground falling away as suppliers try to hustle us to pro (expensive ) formats. HDV is expensive enough but what is the next stage going to cost? "

HDV is cheap: I have a one-chip first generation DV camcorder that cost me as much as what an HDV camcorder costs today. The squeeze began then, because that DV camcorder was able to do what previously required a $30,000 camcorder, and then computers came along and let us replaces a hundred thousand dollars worth of editing hardware with a a few thousand dollars worth of computer and software.

HD DVD's are still in the future and here in the US, a very small percentage of homes even have HD capable TV's and of course none of them have HD DVD players. Unless you have a deal for braodcast or cable television, it will be a awhile before you can even distribute HD, and by then we will have plenty of truly affordable HDV camcorders. You don't even need a new computer; already Mac users can edit HDV with something like a 1gHz Mac and the very, very inexpensive iMovie HD.

relax... four years ago it cost probably $15,000 to get the hardware and software to make standard definition DVD's.

videobear
Veteran

Mar 4, 2005, 1:32 PM

Post #5 of 9 (1334 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Bob Hudson] SONIC shows its new EXPENSIVE Blueray HDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

four years ago it cost probably $15,000 to get the hardware and software to make standard definition DVD's

It was a little more than four years ago...but when DVDs first came on the market, you needed a $50,000 mastering machine to make them, plus another $50K in authoring software. Then Pioneer came out with their S-201 at about $4K and a few small producers became early adopters of that first "affordable" burner. Two years after that, we saw the first DVD-R burners hit the street at around $300 or so.

Patience, my children...

Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions

Bob Hudson
User

Mar 4, 2005, 2:12 PM

Post #6 of 9 (1327 views)
Shortcut

Re: [videobear] SONIC shows its new EXPENSIVE Blueray HDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Quote

four years ago it cost probably $15,000 to get the hardware and software to make standard definition DVD's

It was a little more than four years ago...

Actually it maybe a few months more than four years ago:

January 9, 2001-Apple� today introduced iDVD�, a revolutionary new
application that lets consumers quickly and easily create professional looking DVDs for playback on consumer DVD players and
DVD Studio Pro�, the first full-featured DVD authoring tool. iDVD comes preinstalled on the Power Mac� G4 with the
revolutionary new SuperDrive, a combination CD-RW/DVD-R drive that reads and writes both CDs and DVDs. DVD Studio Pro
offers professional-quality DVD encoding, authoring and writing, and is the perfect complement to Apple's Final Cut Pro�
video editing, effects and compositing software.

Go back and check on the price of DVD authoring software and a DVD burner in 2000 just before Apple unleashed the desktop DVD revolution: DVD authoring and encoding software cost several thousand as did a disk burner: you basically could spend $10,000 before you even bought the computer that could run it all.

So it hasn't been all that long. It just seems like it.

By the way, it also around four yeats ago that Apple and Pinnacle announced plans for an HD editing solution that would only cost $30,000.

Today you have iMovie HD.

Laura K
Veteran

Mar 15, 2005, 9:32 AM

Post #7 of 9 (1241 views)
Shortcut

Re: [avguy75] SONIC shows its new EXPENSIVE Blueray HDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

RELAX!!!! ROFL!!!! Cool

I paid $429 for my first VHS player on sale.
I can remember them coming out with them on a conumber level at $1500!!

It's all relative avguy. Just keep an eye on it.

L

"... it seems that if you're passionate about something, it freaks people out. You're considered bizarre or eccentric. To me, it just means you know who you are." - director Tim Burton

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.

DVman
User

Mar 15, 2005, 10:49 AM

Post #8 of 9 (1238 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Bob Hudson] SONIC shows its new EXPENSIVE Blueray HDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

Bob:

Is a 1Ghz Mac really enough to edit HDV footage fast enough? If so, that would be great news for a lot of us. Maybe Douglas S. E. can confirn this for us ...

You make a lot of sense with your posting about the HDV future at least for the short and medium term. I still don't regret my purchase of a Z1 because of the many features Sony packed in that small camera, features you found on $15,000 and up units. The donconverting feature is great and provides for nice images even if I cannot do any HDV for the moment. I consider the HDV feature, as someone already said, as just the icing of the cake in that wonderful camera.

In Reply To

HD DVD's are still in the future and here in the US, a very small percentage of homes even have HD capable TV's and of course none of them have HD DVD players. Unless you have a deal for braodcast or cable television, it will be a awhile before you can even distribute HD, and by then we will have plenty of truly affordable HDV camcorders. You don't even need a new computer; already Mac users can edit HDV with something like a 1gHz Mac and the very, very inexpensive iMovie HD.

relax... four years ago it cost probably $15,000 to get the hardware and software to make standard definition DVD's.

(This post was edited by DVman on Mar 15, 2005, 10:54 AM)

Bob Hudson
User

Mar 15, 2005, 11:16 AM

Post #9 of 9 (1231 views)
Shortcut

Re: [DVman] SONIC shows its new EXPENSIVE Blueray HDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Is a 1Ghz Mac really enough to edit HDV footage fast enough? If so, that would be great news for a lot of us. Maybe Douglas S. E. can confirn this for us ..

If you checkout Apple's official forums, you find that people are capturing and editing HDV on 1.25gHz Powerbooks: not ideal, but if it's all got, it'll work.