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Home: Video University Forums: HDV:
Sony HVR-Z1

toni
User

Feb 23, 2005, 7:15 PM

Post #1 of 18 (3462 views)
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Sony HVR-Z1	Can't Post

Thank God for this forum! OK I have been reading all these posts and trying to figure out what to do. I can see both sides of the coin. I understand how some of you don't want to switch to HDV right now and
If I was in your shoes I probably wouldn't either.
I also understand how some can't wait. As for me I am starting out this will be my first pro camera and I am looking to do weddings. I can't see myself spending even 2K on a camera that I would want to upgrade next year. I think I am going to go ahead and buy the Sony HVR-Z1. My logic behind it is I can shoot SD edit DV with the Z1 till I am ready to buy a faster computer and all else is ready. Right now I have a 1.8 G5, FCP 4.1, DVD
Pro 3. I know eventually I would want to upgrade the computer. I will
already have the camera. There are other things that I like about the
Z1 16:9, a lot of other options I can use in the sd mode.
My question to you all that bought the camera and have been playing around with it is how do you like it? Other than the HDV, I am talking
about audio, how does it feel, tell me everything! Are you happy or
not?

adtr
Veteran

Feb 24, 2005, 2:41 AM

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TomParke
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Feb 25, 2005, 3:00 PM

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Re: [adtr] Sony HVR-Z1 [In reply to]	Can't Post

I pretty much agree with all of the above comments. I guess it's about what's most important. What is most important is the great picture and this trumps all else. The picture in SD is great in its own right. I've seen some reviews from an owner who stated that the SD picture is as good as his two Sony 300 series cameras (about $12K each). In low light capability, it probably lags behind 2/3 inch chip cameras, but you can compensate with proper light and increased gain settings. Upping the gain with low light may not produce video that is as grainy as other cameras due to the "extra pixels," just not sure. This is one of the things I still have to test out myself.

The internal mike is pretty much useless when you are handheld unless you handle the camera very carefully. But, I didn't buy it for the internal mics, but having them doesn't add much flexibility.

I really believe that the controls and optional settings are good and you can program your own menu selections, you can assign up to six custom buttons, and, you can be a better shooter with the many options. For the last three years, my cameras have been the Sony PD-150 and the VX2100, both great cameras. The biggest stumbling block in these cameras for me has been the options and settings that are buried within menus that are hard to get to quickly on the fly. All three cameras do a great job using automatic settings, so you can't go wrong even if you are a novice. The Z1 should be an easy camera to learn, in my opinion.

If you don't use the HDV options for a while, you'll still be happy with this camera. I am still using 1080i for most all work and downconvert to DV later. Just select to display a marker to show the 4:3 area on your VF or LCD monitor so you'll know what you might be cropping off. You may find that you will do more 16:9 DV so you will lose nothing.

Tom
Tom Parke
ProScan DP

toni
User

Feb 26, 2005, 12:21 AM

Post #4 of 18 (3361 views)
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Re: [adtr] Sony HVR-Z1 [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

In camera audio isn't important to me. I think you get a better job with a separate sound system.

Yes, I realize that, what sound system do you use or recommend?
I was thinking of ordering w/camera the shotgun mic ECM-670
and UWP-C1(true diversity wireless lavalier). Maybe getting a MZR70 MD. What do you think? I am new at this I understand this forum
is for the HDV, but being we are on the topic.

The headphone socket just seems flimsy and there isn't much sound coming out of there anyway.

Isn't that true about most cameras?

Thank you for your reply it was very helpful.

toni

toni
User

Feb 26, 2005, 12:31 AM

Post #5 of 18 (3359 views)
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Re: [TomParke] Sony HVR-Z1 [In reply to]	Can't Post

The Z1 should be an easy camera to learn, in my opinion.

How does it record using Auto?

If you don't use the HDV options for a while, you'll still be happy with this camera. I am still using 1080i for most all work and downconvert to DV later. Just select to display a marker to show the 4:3 area on your VF or LCD monitor so you'll know what you might be cropping off. You may find that you will do more 16:9 DV so you will lose nothing.

Thank you Tom. Great info! I think the camera sounds great.
What sound system do you use? NLE?

adtr
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Feb 26, 2005, 4:12 AM

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toni
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Feb 28, 2005, 7:33 AM

Post #7 of 18 (3281 views)
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Re: [adtr] Sony HVR-Z1 [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

At the moment I am using my old minidisc and sennheiser kit but I will be using a laptop studio and stereo/surround array later this year.

I am sorry you threw me off here can you elaborate "using a laptop studio
and stereo/surround array". Unsure

Thank you.
Toni

videobear
Veteran

Feb 28, 2005, 8:44 AM

Post #8 of 18 (3272 views)
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Re: [toni] Sony HVR-Z1 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Toni, I think he means this:

Most videographers record audio in mono. Our microphones are mono, and if we use the stereo tracks of the camera, it's to record two mono signals from two different mics.

However, our DVDs have the capacity to record, and play back, Dolby surround sound audio, if we only recorded it in the first place.

So, a videographer who made the effort to record audio with this in mind, could provide a Dolby surround mix in her final product. However, recording for surround sound is a whole field in itself, which I know nothing about. I'll leave further discussion to the pros, like DSE.

Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions

szerangue
Veteran

Feb 28, 2005, 9:51 AM

Post #9 of 18 (3267 views)
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Re: [toni] Sony HVR-Z1 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Toni, what is your experience with event videography? What are you trying to accomplish? Will this be something that you are planning on doing for a living or a hobby to make extra income? There are some issues with HDV other than simple picture quality. I have both the FX1 and Z1. I am far from being the quality videographer of some on this forum. I chose the cameras for strictly personal reasons understanding my limitations and the requirments for educating myself on its use. The VX2100 is the camera I first started with and it is a great camera. Lower price and more forgiving for a novice shooter. I think the Z1 is a great camera, but if I was only going to shoot in SD and edit in SD for the forseeable future, I would definitely not spend the money on the Z1,, better I think to go with the VX2100.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE

toni
User

Feb 28, 2005, 12:10 PM

Post #10 of 18 (3252 views)
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Re: [szerangue] Sony HVR-Z1 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thank you guys for all your input. I have learned a lot from hanging around this forum. Let me tell you a little bit of where I am at and what my goals are. My experience is I work full time as a graphic artist now. I recently created my own website.
A couple of years ago I went back and took Media arts in college.
Concentrated on Video Production.
I am familiar with audio/video production and experienced doing school projects, so I understand what Doug is saying concerning stereo/mono sound. I just did not understood exactly what adr meant. As for my experience doing video for special events, I have done a few weddings a few years ago for friends and family with no intensions of going professional. I do now. I have a pretty strong computer background (graphics) and I have been doing some editing and getting better. I want to get a good camera and mics and anything else I need so I can this summer do 2 or 3 weddings for free and get a demo and get my wedding biz going. It's now or never, played around long enough. I AM VERY SERIOUS ABOUT DOING THIS! I purchased "Wedding Video for Profit" from here. I read all posts in this forum and learn all I can. I also do a lot
of research on different equipment on my own. Between creating
my website, my graphic work, photo restorations, editing videos,
DVD Pro, searching equipment sometimes I can feel pretty burned out. So please excuse me if I ask stupid questions. Crazy

Recently I have done some birthday partys and edit them using my sony 240. I am ready for my big 3CCC camera!
I don't want to spend any money on a camera that I would want to
replace next year. If videographers now know that eventually they will have to upgrade their SD equipment why would anyone recommend me to start buying a camera that they have to start getting rid off soon enough. Is not like I am buying a training bra ... lol
I think I can get the experience I need with the Z1 as well as I can with the 2100 or even the 170 pd and be ready when I
need to. For now I can record HDV downconverting to SD. Or record
DV. The camera has everything I need to start and grow with it.
I just needed to know what mics you recommend, if stereo thats fine
which ones?
I am also trying to get where I will shoot mostly manual, but I still use auto so I need to know how the Z1 records on auto.

Thank you for all your help and you guys have been great!

toni

videobear
Veteran

Feb 28, 2005, 1:11 PM

Post #11 of 18 (3234 views)
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Re: [toni] Sony HVR-Z1 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Toni,

It's a very tough call as to whether to go HDV or DV at this point. There are strong arguments for both sides, and I can't advise you on which route would be better. Here are some points to think about, though:

In favor of DV...
- Lower cost
- Wide selection of equipment and software
- Well-understood production and delivery chain

In favor of HDV...
- Better picture quality (there are some caveats to this, depending on whether you shoot HDV and downconvert, or shoot DV in the camera). Picture quality is definitely better IF you can stay in HDV all the way and view the results on an HDTV monitor.
- Native widescreen format.
- May well be the "wave of the future", but this is not yet certain. Even if it is, remember that early adopters of DV had to wait two years before the first all-DV editing solution became available.

Some negatives regarding HDV...
- Higher cost of equipment and media. (Tape cost is about $14.00, vs. $5.00 for a DV cassette).
- Requires a VERY powerful computer and a VERY large fast disk array to edit native HDV (dual 3.06 GHz Xeon, 1 terabyte or more of storage for ONE wedding project).
- There are "startup glitches" in the production chain. It may take some hair-pulling until the bugs are worked out between vendors and within individual products.
- There is not yet a widespread delivery medium (you need clients with HDTVs and, preferably, D-VHS tape machines to provide the best results).
- The Sony HDV cams have a poorer low light spec than the VX2100 or PD-170. However, many users claim the lack of grain and the increased color resolution of the HDV units offsets this.
- Because HDV files are recorded as MPEG-2, digital dropouts may be longer-lasting. This may make it more advisable to use a hard-disk recorder with this format.

I expect that HDV will continue to gain support from the hardware and software manufacturers, but you do have to live through the rocky startup period if you elect to go the HDV route today.

Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions

szerangue
Veteran

Feb 28, 2005, 3:12 PM

Post #12 of 18 (3229 views)
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Re: [videobear] Sony HVR-Z1 [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Some negatives regarding HDV...
- Higher cost of equipment and media. (Tape cost is about $14.00, vs. $5.00 for a DV cassette).
- Requires a VERY powerful computer and a VERY large fast disk array to edit native HDV (dual 3.06 GHz Xeon, 1 terabyte or more of storage for ONE wedding project).
- Because HDV files are recorded as MPEG-2, digital dropouts may be longer-lasting. This may make it more advisable to use a hard-disk recorder with this format.

Doug, not to try to poke holes in your negatives but just wanted to let you know what I am experiencing. - The Z1 is capable of using regular DV tapes and from talking to others about which tapes to use, most are using the premium Sony Tapes and are not experiencing any dropouts. The users I have talked to are not re-using tapes. - I am using dual 3.0GHz, 400gb SATA Raid for video storage and have sucessfully edited and stored a wedding project with plenty of room to store another project.
Miracle Pictures
"If it's a good picture, it's a Miracle!"

"Life Productions, coming out of the dark, into the light"
4EVER GROUP AFFILIATE

videobear
Veteran

Feb 28, 2005, 3:50 PM

Post #13 of 18 (3228 views)
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Re: [szerangue] Sony HVR-Z1 [In reply to]	Can't Post

Shane, please poke all the holes you want to. You actually own these cams, I'm still sitting on the sidelines. I wouldn't want my theoretical negatives (or positives) to outweigh real-world field experience! Smile

Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions

gaspar
Novice

Oct 3, 2005, 8:31 AM

Post #14 of 18 (2560 views)
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Re: [szerangue] Sony HVR-Z1 [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Some negatives regarding HDV...
- Requires a VERY powerful computer and a VERY large fast disk array to edit native HDV (dual 3.06 GHz Xeon, 1 terabyte or more of storage for ONE wedding project).

Your storage requirement figure for HDV is way off. HDV (25) has pretty much the same data rate and storage requirement as DV (about 13G/hour). Editing native HDV is more processor intensive for sure, but a basic SATA/USB/Firewire raid unit should be fine for editing and playback.

(This post was edited by gaspar on Oct 3, 2005, 8:34 AM)

videobear
Veteran

Oct 3, 2005, 9:02 AM

Post #15 of 18 (2554 views)
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Re: [gaspar] Sony HVR-Z1 [In reply to]	Can't Post

You're both right.

Native HDV files are, indeed, no larger than DV files of the same playback length.

However, many people choose to edit using an intermediate codec. This makes the processing job a lot easier (gets rid of the MPEG2 interframe compression so each frame stands alone), and gives much better real time editing performance. But the penalty is much larger files, so Shane's figure of a terabyte of storage isn't unusual for long form HDV projects.

Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions

Postal_Boy
Veteran

Oct 3, 2005, 3:03 PM

Post #16 of 18 (2531 views)
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Re: [videobear] Sony HVR-Z1 [In reply to]	Can't Post

How much bigger is the intermediate codec? I have heard 3 times? So instead of 13 gigs/hour you need about 40 gigs/hour of footage?
__________________________

PD-170, Dual athlon 2200+, 1gig ram,, Vegas, Combustion, Photoshop, dual monitor (ashamed of the video card, so I won't mention it), Samson wireless, and a couple of one-chippers (sony) just for the heck of it. - And an IRIVER

DSE
Veteran

Oct 3, 2005, 4:39 PM

Post #17 of 18 (2519 views)
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Re: [Postal_Boy] Sony HVR-Z1 [In reply to]	Can't Post

The size of the intermediate is determined by the type of intermediate. For example the CineForm codec is a wavelet based codec, which allows it to be quite flexible. In "Medium" quality intermediate, which is what most folks will want to use, figure approx 40 GB per hour of footage.
Other codecs will be slightly larger or smaller, depending on how they compress/compare frames.

Douglas Spotted Eagle
Author, producer, composer
www.vasst.com
"I enjoy music, long walks at sunset on the beach, and poking dead things with a sharp stick."

bruceo
Veteran

Oct 12, 2005, 1:55 AM

Post #18 of 18 (2280 views)
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Re: [toni] Sony HVR-Z1 [In reply to]	Can't Post

FX1 is by far the best bang for your buck. Add a studio one xlr adapter and you have all you need. DOn't get the Z1 unless you have extra money to blow.

First Sight Pictures