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Home: Video University Forums: Mac Video:
Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!)

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MLiebergot
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Jun 9, 2008, 6:10 PM

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Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!)	Can't Post

I just wanted to make a quick post and say that I have started fiddling around with Color in the FCS suite and am hooked on it. It rocks!

It's not actually quite as complicated as one would think at first glace. I have been doing the online tutorials for Color on Lynda.com and it has gotten me up to speed quite quickly.
Round tripping is easy, but I have noticed that rendering can take quite a while (even for DV footage) (on 2.66 Quad).

It really is quite addicting to see all of the possibilities that you can do with this over simple 3-Way CC in FCP. I have even found that my simple CC footage looks better and is more customizable than the 3-Way CC in FCP. The ability to adjust color levels and hues/saturation as well as the ability to tweak separate color channels RGB as well as Luma via curves is great. A used to be a certified Photoshop trainer, when I used to do photo restoration and the lot, so working in curves is second nature to me. You can do this kind of stuff in Sony Vegas, but not as easy or to this extent. Especially since you can work in one room, instead of having to apply many different filers and bounce back and forth between them to get the proper look.

And this is just for the primary color room. You can do even more with the secondary color room as well. Then there's the effects color room, where the real fun begins. You can create some real cool and rich film looks if you have the time to tryout the different filters and marry them together.

Also, as I mentioned in another post, you can't review your footage via Firewire, but you can preview it via PCI card like Black Magic Intensity/PRO.

I don't have any footage yet to post, as I have only been playing around with some non wedding footage that I am working on (corporate stuff).
But if anyone gets a chance to play with it give t a shot (Glen, you will love it). Wink

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

Ron Priest
Veteran

Jun 9, 2008, 7:50 PM

Post #2 of 30 (2218 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Michael for that report. I've been trying to find the time to get started learning it. I have the Apple Pro Training Series book on Color, just haven't had the time to learn it yet.
___________________
Ron

GmElliott
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Jun 9, 2008, 9:50 PM

Post #3 of 30 (2210 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for that review Michael. Yeah I need to get my butt back on Lynda.com and do some training. Color looks daunting but I'll take your word for it not being as complicated as it looks. That's how Photoshop is for me- it's very simple but many people are intimidated by it.

It's interesting you mention you were a Certified Adobe Photoshop trainer. I actually was going for my Adobe Certified Expert in Photoshop many years ago. I actually failed the test by 2 questions. Both were questions about printing presses, something I wasn't prepared for. Anything having to do with the interface etc I had nailed down.

Glen Elliott
http://www.GmElliottVideo.com

MLiebergot
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Jun 10, 2008, 9:23 AM

Post #4 of 30 (2195 views)
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Re: [GmElliott] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yeah, as I said the interface looks daunting, and it can be rater intensive if you choose it to be. But, after going through the basic setup and functions of the interface on the Lynda.com tutorials, it's not that bad. And I know for a fact that you are going to be addicted to it. And even better, since you have the Intensity card, you can preview your footage while grading.

And as for the 2 questions on printing presses, I wasn't expecting it either, but my background was in printing, as my father used to have his own printing business that he ran out of our grage, while I was growing up. So I spent many a summer, going through paper stock, colating (oh the paper cuts), cutting, making plates using his plate maker, doing pasteup (yes we had to paste up our lettering and spreads to be shot with a camera Wink

). I am also as I mentioned before a graphic designer (on both print and web side, but mainly print). So all of this is second nature to me. Wink

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

MLiebergot
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Jun 10, 2008, 9:24 AM

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Re: [Ron Priest] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ron, if you don't have a membership to Lynda.com, run don't walk to get one. The lessons up there are invaluable, and for just about any peice of software you can imagine.
I guarantee that the Color tutorials will get you up and running much much faster than the book (manual) will.

In Reply To

Thanks Michael for that report. I've been trying to find the time to get started learning it. I have the Apple Pro Training Series book on Color, just haven't had the time to learn it yet.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

Ron Priest
Veteran

Jun 10, 2008, 9:50 AM

Post #6 of 30 (2186 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Michael

Im not talking about the manual. As a matter of fact, I don't think there is a printed manual, it's built into the help section of the Color program. Im talking about this book with a DVD of lessons.

http://www.peachpit.com/...aspx?isbn=0321509110

This is the same series I learned FCP on within 2 weeks. I've been a member over at Lynda. I prefer to have the actual hands on material on my systems as I go though the lessons step by step.
___________________
Ron

GmElliott
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Jun 10, 2008, 10:10 PM

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Books are great and all but I'm more of a visual learner. I learned all my FCS knowledge from Lynda.com- I can't recommend it enough.

Glen Elliott
http://www.GmElliottVideo.com

brucecleveland
Veteran

Jun 11, 2008, 3:38 PM

Post #8 of 30 (2158 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Thanks Michael for that report. I've been trying to find the time to get started learning it. I have the Apple Pro Training Series book on Color, just haven't had the time to learn it yet.

Thanks Michael. Gonna go that route. I had been getting Ripple Training, but lately I don't think I am seeing as good a product as they used to put out.

Bruce

This forum for sure costs me money. Good money though.
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."

videogal
User

Jun 15, 2008, 12:53 AM

Post #9 of 30 (2120 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

I just took the "color" plunge last week, and it is addictive! I love lynda.com, but have also found the book referenced above to be very clear and well-written. Probably my only complaint about the book is some of the color pictures of the interface are such a dark grey that it is hard to read what the pictures say. But the explanations are clear and the CD with the book has good practice files.

Have fun!

In Reply To

marco
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Jul 31, 2008, 7:39 AM

Post #10 of 30 (1707 views)
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Re: [videogal] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

I love color, it is really amazing. The only problem is that it doesn't work with speed changes or multicam projects. Has anyone found a work around for this?

It reminds me of the first release of 'Motion', it took a while for it to be truly integrated.

--Jenny

Jenny & Marco
http://www.canafilms.com

Ron Priest
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Jul 31, 2008, 9:30 AM

Post #11 of 30 (1700 views)
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Re: [marco] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Jenny

I was wondering if you tried collapsing your multiclip before round tripping with color? I'm not saying it will work, I'm just wondering.
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Ron

marco
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Jul 31, 2008, 12:40 PM

Post #12 of 30 (1695 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Ron,

I definitely tried collapsing my multiclip and sending it over, it gives some strange clips once I get to color. I've also tried to export the XML data and import that into color, but that also doesn't work with the multiclip.

Also, the speed changes don't come through into color.

--Jenny

Jenny & Marco
http://www.canafilms.com

Ron Priest
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Jul 31, 2008, 1:10 PM

Post #13 of 30 (1688 views)
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Re: [marco] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

I took a quick look at the table of contents for the Color training module over at Lynda.com and nothing jumped out at me in reference to your problem. That's not to say they don't talk about editing or not editing multi-clips there, I haven't viewed the course yet. I'm trying to catch up with Glen. Wink

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Ron

marco
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Jul 31, 2008, 1:33 PM

Post #14 of 30 (1677 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Just take a glance at the apple discussions and you will see that everyone has the same problem. Multiclip stops color.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1630184&tstart=15

I still use it for smaller projects, it just is to complicated for my weddings as of now.

Jenny & Marco
http://www.canafilms.com

gl
Veteran

Aug 5, 2008, 1:15 PM

Post #15 of 30 (1631 views)
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Re: [marco] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Best work around for Color

-gl

Ron Priest
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Aug 8, 2008, 10:02 AM

Post #16 of 30 (1565 views)
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Re: [gl] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Best work around for Color

-gl

I'm looking at this, thanks for the link. Do you use looks religiously? I downloaded the trial version and am quite impressed. I would love to look at some known footage where looks is use.

Looks does seem like it wold be a good work around for color since you can't color grade multiclips in Color.
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Ron

Ron Priest
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Aug 8, 2008, 10:07 AM

Post #17 of 30 (1563 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

And even better, since you have the Intensity card, you can preview your footage while grading. Wink

Hi Michael

How do you turn your Intensity Card on to view the output during color grading in Color?
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Ron

MLiebergot
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Aug 8, 2008, 10:26 AM

Post #18 of 30 (1562 views)
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Quote

Hi Michael

How do you turn your Intensity Card on to view the output during color grading in Color?

If you mean, hoe do you turn on your "Intensity" display in Color, look in the "Setup" room and click on the "User Preferences" tab. You will see a pulldown for "Video Output" on the right hand side. Simply select the pulldown to Black Magic Intensity" and your good to go.

As far as the Black magic card goes, make sure that you have the display setup that you want selected in the Intensity Preferences, ie. composite or hDMI preview.
But if you are using the BW card with FCP, then you have already done this, so no need to worry.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

gl
Veteran

Aug 8, 2008, 10:41 AM

Post #19 of 30 (1555 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think that Looks Suite makes a lot of sense for the work that most people do. The creator, Stu Maschwitz, really understands the market needs and has made an app that is more intuitive than most in this space. For example, Looks can be used in FCP, AE or stand-alone. So your knowledge and presets can be carried to multiple projects and applications. Keep in mind though, that I would not say Looks Suite is a "Color Corrector" but more of a stylistic application for acheiving a "look".

I am working on an article for Creative Cow. I'll post a link when it's up.

-gl

Ron Priest
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Aug 8, 2008, 10:56 AM

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Re: [MLiebergot] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Michael

Sometimes I'm lazy, it's easier to just ask you. I was just about to post that I had found this thing called an "on line manual" it's great!! I tell's me all about color! Crazy

So, being able to monitor your output during color grading via the intensity card is defiantly a big advantage Color has over looks where you can't see your results until you exit the looks application back to your timeline in FCP. Also I don't see anyway to do secondary color correction with looks. Then the disadvantage to Color is that you can't use it with multiclips.

With as much adjusting i do in FCP with contrast and color saturation using the color corrector 3 way filter, I can see myself becoming very fond of Color. I've accomplished the the initial getting started lessons on Color at Lynda.com, now I'll have to go through the essential training.

While going through the Lynda.com tutorials on FCP, I've learned things that I didn't learn while first going through the Apple training books, but then there are things I've learned using the Apple training books that I didn't see covered in the Lynda tutorials. I think I'm going to go through the Lynda tutorials with Color first and then go though the Apple training book. That will probably be the best of both worlds. Having someone actually accomplish the steps while talking about it via the Lynda tutorials gives you an extremely good overview of the software, while the Apple training books give you a fantastic hands on training with the lessons on the DVD along with the printed materials. Additionally, it gives you a different prospective from different people which is a great benefit.
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Ron

Ron Priest
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Aug 8, 2008, 11:07 AM

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In Reply To

Keep in mind though, that I would not say Looks Suite is a "Color Corrector" but more of a stylistic application for acheiving a "look".

I am working on an article for Creative Cow. I'll post a link when it's up.

-gl

I will look forward to your Article, thanks gl!
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Ron

MLiebergot
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Aug 8, 2008, 11:27 AM

Post #22 of 30 (1544 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

The one thing to realize, when working with Color though is that I would recommend using it for final color adjustments and color grading after you have laid out your edit.

The reason being that when you export the file back to FCP form Color, Color will render out a new file and create a new (Color) sequence, that will be separate from your original ones. So you will need additional storage if you are working with ProRes files, which color likes BTW.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

Ron Priest
Veteran

Aug 8, 2008, 11:35 AM

Post #23 of 30 (1541 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

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... you will need additional storage if you are working with ProRes files, which color likes BTW.

It seems like I remember hearing somewhere in Larry Jordan's HD tutorial, for Color to take advantage of ProRes files it would need to be 10 bit ProRes files rather than 8 bit? Is that correct? And am I correct in thinking that in order to use 10 bit files, it has to be ProRes HQ which Larry also points out that if your capturing your video using HDV then it's doesn't go you any good to capture and edit in ProRes HQ?

Hey... I'm starting to catch on to this stuff... it's a little scary. Crazy

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Ron

Ron Priest
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Aug 10, 2008, 10:45 PM

Post #24 of 30 (1484 views)
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Re: [marco] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Hi Jenny

I've viewed all of the training movies at Lynda.com covering the essentials for color and have thought of possible work around for this problem. Evidently a multicam sequence is type of an effect that is not supported by Color.

So how about if you export only the video track of your edited multicam sequence, without any color correction filters but leave any speed changes intact (if any exist) as a self contained Quick Time movie. Duplicate your original sequence and add a 2nd video track to your duplicated sequence. Then import the exported move back into FCP and place it on the new video track in your duplicated sequence. Then using your next edit short cut and razor blade tool, splice the imported video at all of your edit points. Then you can delete your original multicam video track and send the sequence to color and edit it as you would any other single cam sequence.

That should work don't ya thank?
___________________
Ron

marco
User

Aug 11, 2008, 6:17 AM

Post #25 of 30 (1470 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] Color Rocks (Glen take it for a Ride!) [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the idea. It's an excellent solution. I'll try and do it on this current project and see how it comes out.

One sticky point, what if you have a cross dissolve?

--A problem I do have with this process in general - (sending my sequence to be colored in a separate application) is that I can't change my clips once they come back. I know that color can-should be the last step in editing but as the editor, colorist, audio'ist' Smile

... I find that after a color change or effect, it will change the feel of the sequence and sometimes I want to extend or change a scene, but as far as I know, after it comes back, you can't change the clip.

Well, maybe I need to rethink my workflow and be totally done when I start to color correct. It's just that sometimes the great stuff comes out when I think I'm done and try something in a slightly different way. Anyway, just a thought.

--Jenny

Jenny & Marco
http://www.canafilms.com

(This post was edited by marco on Aug 11, 2008, 6:18 AM)

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