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Home: Video University Forums: Mac Video:
MacPro RAM Upgrade

 

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thatmdvideoguy
Enthusiast


Nov 20, 2007, 9:47 AM

Post #1 of 29 (1392 views)
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MacPro RAM Upgrade Can't Post

I'm getting ready to buy an 8-core system, but can't see spending what Apple wants for RAM. I want to get it with just 1 Gb and then add third party. The OWC Netlist RAM (macsales.com) sounds good. Does anyone have any experience with this, or other suggestions/brands?

Allan


MLiebergot
Veteran


Nov 20, 2007, 10:05 AM

Post #2 of 29 (1392 views)
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Re: [thatmdvideoguy] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

Allan, I have been purchasing all of my MAC gear from macmall.com.

When I purchased my 2.66 Quad MACPRO (2GB RAM inastalled) a few months back I also purchased a couple Mushkin 2GB 667 MHz PC2-5300 modules wth no issue swhat so ever. I currently have 6GB of RAM in my system, and will probably be adding 2-4GB more in the near future. I woudl recommend going with 2GB modules to take advantage of as much memory as you can. Although remember that you will have to buy them in pairs to place on each board.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!


carnicelli
User


Nov 20, 2007, 1:52 PM

Post #3 of 29 (1388 views)
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Re: [thatmdvideoguy] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

Allan,

I have used Crucial in several Macs and highly recommend them.


Bill Carnicelli
Carnicelli Media Productions Inc


Bill Kinkle
Veteran


Nov 20, 2007, 10:04 PM

Post #4 of 29 (1373 views)
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Re: [thatmdvideoguy] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a Quad G5 and bought a bunch of ram from OWC, I had a ton of issues with it and went through 4 rounds of returns, it still isn't perfect in my quad but they have always been great from a customer service perpective. I also bought some chips for my powerbook and have never had a problem with those, works like a charm.


thatmdvideoguy
Enthusiast


Nov 20, 2007, 10:17 PM

Post #5 of 29 (1372 views)
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Re: [carnicelli] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

Bill:

Were any of the Macs Quads? Apparently, these chips run a lot hotter than on earlier Macs and need heat spreaders. I'm wondering which brands have come up with adequate designs.

Allan


thatmdvideoguy
Enthusiast


Nov 20, 2007, 10:20 PM

Post #6 of 29 (1369 views)
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Re: [Bill Kinkle] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

Bill:

Sorry to hear that. I was leaning towards OWC, because they claim on their web site that Netlist Memory is "the exact same RAM you get from Apple!" Did you get the more expensive "Mac Pro Certified" or the "Apple Qualified?"

Allan
2 VX2000s, 3.0 8-core Mac Pro, Dual 1Gb G4, G3, PowerBook G4, FCStudio 2 not 3, PS CS3, Samson U32 Q mic, Edirol R-09, 4 iRivers, NRG lights, Epson R300 and Stylus 600 and HPC5280 printers, Bravo II publisher, a sense of humor, little hair and occasional flashes of creativity

http://www.thatvideoguy.net

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Bill Kinkle
Veteran


Nov 20, 2007, 10:34 PM

Post #7 of 29 (1366 views)
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Re: [thatmdvideoguy] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a quad G5 and a 1.5ghz G4 PB.


Bill Kinkle
Veteran


Nov 20, 2007, 10:37 PM

Post #8 of 29 (1365 views)
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Re: [thatmdvideoguy] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not sure which RAM chips they were, it was 1.5 years back. I wouldn't just go by my experience, I have heard a lot of good experiences with PWC and like I said they have outstanding customer service (a rarity these days IMO) which goes a long way for me and I would certainly buy from them again. Daniel Boswell had the same issue as I did with his first round on his Quad G5 several years ago but was corrected with a new chip. I am not sure what the problem is, but I can't put my Quad to sleep, whenever I do my fans go bezerk and I get kernel panics out the wazoo. I've read a bunch of similar issues on macnn about this, no one knows what causes it. I've just learned not to put it to sleep, not really a big deal.


Timothy Harry
Veteran


Nov 21, 2007, 1:27 PM

Post #9 of 29 (1350 views)
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Re: [thatmdvideoguy] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

i have had nothing but great luck with items ordered from OWC. Make sure to get the ram that is certified. It will make support easier at at genius bar because it is the exact same RAM that apple sells in the store. I would buy from OWC again and again. great folks to work with.

Oh and you will love that 8 core. Mine hauls some serious butt.

Tim Harry

Bandwagon Media
Odessa, TX

"Broad minded is just another way of saying a fellow's too lazy to form an opinion" - Will Rogers

(This post was edited by Timothy Harry on Nov 21, 2007, 1:27 PM)


thatmdvideoguy
Enthusiast


Nov 21, 2007, 3:18 PM

Post #10 of 29 (1342 views)
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Re: [Timothy Harry] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

Tim:

After reading more comments on some of the Mac sites, and some reviews and tests, it does appear that the OWC "certified" RAM will be a good choice. How much did you install. I can't decide whether to go all the way to 16 Gb, or settle for 8 Gb. One review said that using the original 2x1Gb sticks in addition to 4x2Gb sticks could actually slow down some responses. Crazy

Also, did you 'trade-in" your original RAM to OWC? I think I would hold on to it either way, in case I ever need Apple Care and 3rd party RAM became an issue.

Allan
2 VX2000s, 3.0 8-core Mac Pro, Dual 1Gb G4, G3, PowerBook G4, FCStudio 2 not 3, PS CS3, Samson U32 Q mic, Edirol R-09, 4 iRivers, NRG lights, Epson R300 and Stylus 600 and HPC5280 printers, Bravo II publisher, a sense of humor, little hair and occasional flashes of creativity

http://www.thatvideoguy.net

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Timothy Harry
Veteran


Nov 21, 2007, 3:36 PM

Post #11 of 29 (1339 views)
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Re: [thatmdvideoguy] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

well here is where your gonna think I am an idiot......

I actually bought my ram on the Mac Pro from apple. At the time it was easier. I did do the ram on my Macbook pro, Imac, parents imac, etc on OWC. never traded any in, just bought new. I have 4GB of ram. I will probably head to 8GB by summer. THe review on the differing stick sizes seems to be the concensus on several of the FCP forums I am on. THe general idea is that you want at least 1 stick of RAM per core for optimal performance, and with the 8 core, that would mean you want 8 sticks total, and they would all need to be the same size. I will probably have to come rob you for your RAM if you get 16GB though, so just thought I would warn ya!!!! mucho jealouso!

Tim Harry

Bandwagon Media
Odessa, TX

"Broad minded is just another way of saying a fellow's too lazy to form an opinion" - Will Rogers


Ron Priest
Veteran


Nov 24, 2007, 2:31 PM

Post #12 of 29 (1271 views)
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Re: [Timothy Harry] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
THe general idea is that you want at least 1 stick of RAM per core for optimal performance, and with the 8 core, that would mean you want 8 sticks total, and they would all need to be the same size. ...

Tim, does Apple claim this, or is this just something someone has made up? I find this kind of hard to swallow.
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Timothy Harry
Veteran


Nov 24, 2007, 7:32 PM

Post #13 of 29 (1265 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

it was in abarefeats.com article I read on ram performance with the mac pro. If I had the time this afternoon I would google it, but it makes sense to me......

Tim Harry

Bandwagon Media
Odessa, TX

"Broad minded is just another way of saying a fellow's too lazy to form an opinion" - Will Rogers


Ron Priest
Veteran


Nov 24, 2007, 7:38 PM

Post #14 of 29 (1262 views)
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Re: [Timothy Harry] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

Please explain to me how that makes sense?
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thatmdvideoguy
Enthusiast


Nov 24, 2007, 10:50 PM

Post #15 of 29 (1248 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

http://anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832

"As we mentioned and proved in our previous articles, the number and configuration of FB-DIMMs in your Mac Pro can affect performance. The Intel 5000X chipset in the Mac Pro features two 144-bit FBD branches, each being the width of two FB-DIMMs (effectively giving the chipset four "channels"). Therefore you need at least two FB-DIMMs in the system (the width of a single FBD branch), but ideally you'd need at least four to have a hope of attaining peak bandwidth.
As some of our readers (and Intel) pointed out, the story doesn't just end at needing four FB-DIMMs. The rank of the FB-DIMMs can impact performance as well, and ideally each of your FB-DIMM modules would be dual rank modules. The rank of a DIMM is determined by dividing the width of all of the devices on the module by the width of the module itself. For example, a single rank FB-DIMM would have 9 DDR2 devices each being 8-bits wide. A dual rank FB-DIMM would be composed of 18 DDR2 devices, each still being 8-bits wide. All of our 512MB FB-DIMMs are single rank modules, while our 1GB and 2GB modules are dual rank.
The story doesn't end with rank though. Because of the dedicated read and write lanes between the memory controller and the AMBs on FB-DIMMs, you can be reading from one FB-DIMM while writing to another. So in theory, if you're running an application (or combination of applications) that have a lot of concurrent reads and writes going on you could stand to benefit from having more than one FB-DIMM per channel.
Based on all of the above information, it would seem like your best bet is to stick as many dual rank FB-DIMMs as you can afford in your system, and if that were the case then we'd be able to move on from here. Unfortunately it's not, because as we mentioned in previous articles, the more FB-DIMMs you have in your system, the higher access latencies will be to those additional FB-DIMMs.
What we then end up with is a tradeoff between more bandwidth and higher latency, so which route do you take? We've done a lot of testing and most of our tests seem to favor the four dual-rank FB-DIMM module configuration, but the number/configuration of modules really depends on your particular needs. We're still testing to figure out what the tangible real world performance differences are between the multitude of memory configurations, but for now just know that if you need maximum bandwidth you'll want 8 dual rank FB-DIMMs, but if you want lower latency you'll want fewer modules. Whether or not you'll see a performance difference will depend mostly on the application(s) you're running."Frown

http://diglloyd.com/diglloyd/free/MacPro/memory.html

"Recommendations
Modules must be installed in pairs of matched size (see Apple’s Replacement Instructions and RAM Expansion Product-Specific Details). So there can be 2, 4, 6 or 8 modules installed. The riser boards are nicely labeled as to which slot is which (slots 1/2/3/4 on each riser board).
  1. Aim for a configuration of either 4 or 8 modules, not 2 or 6. Each group of 4 modules should be the same size, and occupy the same slots on each riser board.
  2. Avoid single-rank modules. Apple’s 512MB modules are single-rank. However, 4 of them do offer 90% of the performance of the dual-rank modules, so they’re still speedy in groups of 4.
  3. If you have mixed sizes, install the fastest modules in the lowest-numbered slots. Mac OS X appears to allocate memory from the lowest-numbered slots first.

Keep in mind that the performance of any specific program might or might not benefit from the optimal configuration. On the other hand, there is no reason not to purchase the optimal configuration, assuming your budget allows it."
I don't know if this explains it, but it seems they are saying to put in either 4 like sticks or 8.
Allan
2 VX2000s, 3.0 8-core Mac Pro, Dual 1Gb G4, G3, PowerBook G4, FCStudio 2 not 3, PS CS3, Samson U32 Q mic, Edirol R-09, 4 iRivers, NRG lights, Epson R300 and Stylus 600 and HPC5280 printers, Bravo II publisher, a sense of humor, little hair and occasional flashes of creativity

http://www.thatvideoguy.net

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Timothy Harry
Veteran


Nov 24, 2007, 11:00 PM

Post #16 of 29 (1246 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

well,

in a cpu architecture, you have what is called the front side bus (FSB). on the mac pro you have dual 1.33ghz frontside buses (the speed in which the processor is able to communicate with the other components). the Ram is DDR 667 RAM. 667Mhz does not = 1.33 Ghz, so it is impossible to communicate at the full speed of the FSB. when you start adding multiple sticks of RAM it becomes more possible to saturate this bus, thus getting better speed out of your processor(s).
When you have several RAM sticks with less capacity than the others, it has to make more trips to the ram, thus adding more time to the total round trip. You are talkin nanoseconds here, but every little bit you can get helps out a lot in the grand scheme of things.

I will try to look up that article later tonight to see if I can find it. I had a client that was supposed to meet me at the office a few minutes ago, but cancelled as we are apparently having a blizzard....good thing I brought the 4X4 tonight i guess.....

edit......
well looks like someone beat me to it... that was the article I read. I guess I am getting old, I swear I read it over at barefeats.....

Tim Harry

Bandwagon Media
Odessa, TX

"Broad minded is just another way of saying a fellow's too lazy to form an opinion" - Will Rogers

(This post was edited by Timothy Harry on Nov 24, 2007, 11:03 PM)


MLiebergot
Veteran


Nov 25, 2007, 12:39 PM

Post #17 of 29 (1230 views)
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Re: [thatmdvideoguy] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyone familiar with TransIntl for RAM, as their pricing seems to be great. I have heard some good things about them, but wanted to see if there was any feedback on their RAM. It's either them or OWC to purchase (4 x 2GB) 8GB of RAM for me.


Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!


thatmdvideoguy
Enthusiast


Nov 25, 2007, 2:03 PM

Post #18 of 29 (1228 views)
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Re: [Timothy Harry] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post



In Reply To
I guess I am getting old, I swear I read it over at barefeats.....

Tim:

We're all getting old! Smile I had read the barefeats article before; these two articles were linked there.

Allan

(This post was edited by thatmdvideoguy on Nov 25, 2007, 2:04 PM)


thatmdvideoguy
Enthusiast


Nov 25, 2007, 2:27 PM

Post #19 of 29 (1225 views)
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Re: [MLiebergot] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

Michael:

The barefeats.com article (http://www.barefeats.com/quad09.html) says:
"BUYING RECOMMENDATIONS
We have no hesitation in recommending Other World Computing and Trans International as good sources for Mac Pro memory (and memory for other Macs). We have purchased our memory from both companies for many years. They both have a strong track record. They carefully test for Mac compatibility and reliability. They both provide a quality product at reasonable prices."

Also: "
TransIntl.com is shipping Mac Pro memory with Apple suggested heat sink specs. They took great care to engineer their heat sinks for maximum thermal efficiency using 6 fins on each side (versus 4 on the Apple factory modules) and special aluminum alloy. We tested these and can vouch that their heat sinks are truly efficient in absorbing and dissipating heat."

Let's see if anyone has any experience with them.

Allan


MLiebergot
Veteran


Nov 25, 2007, 3:13 PM

Post #20 of 29 (1222 views)
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Re: [thatmdvideoguy] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool, thanks Allan.
I have heard good things about both. Was just wondering why Trans International's RAM was considerably cheaper in price.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!


gl
Veteran


Nov 26, 2007, 2:22 PM

Post #21 of 29 (1199 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

This has been verified by many including Adobe (For After Effects on mac), and many other developers. However, one slight difference is not necessarily the stick / core but 1 gig per core. However you get to that amount is up to you and the computer you came in on.

Just be aware that FCP will only see 4 gig (might have been mentioned already) but, since FCS is designed to work with at least two or three apps open together, this amount of ram will still benefit you.


-gl


Ron Priest
Veteran


Nov 26, 2007, 2:42 PM

Post #22 of 29 (1196 views)
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Re: [gl] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Just be aware that FCP will only see 4 gig (might have been mentioned already) but, since FCS is designed to work with at least two or three apps open together, this amount of ram will still benefit you.

So is FCPalso limited by a certain number of processors? For example, if you have an 8 Core MAC Pro, will FCP only see or use a max of 4 processors?
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Timothy Harry
Veteran


Nov 26, 2007, 5:46 PM

Post #23 of 29 (1187 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

mine does not use the full advantage of all 8 cores, but I understand that it is a limitation of tiger. I will be upgrading to Leopard when AJA gets off their butts and releases a new driver for my KONA card. I bought with future expansion in mind. Compressor when you set up a virtual cluster will use all 8 cores, and works very well.

Tim Harry

Bandwagon Media
Odessa, TX

"Broad minded is just another way of saying a fellow's too lazy to form an opinion" - Will Rogers


Ron Priest
Veteran


Nov 26, 2007, 6:36 PM

Post #24 of 29 (1183 views)
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Re: [Timothy Harry] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
mine does not use the full advantage of all 8 cores, but I understand that it is a limitation of tiger. I will be upgrading to Leopard when AJA gets off their butts and releases a new driver for my KONA card. I bought with future expansion in mind. Compressor when you set up a virtual cluster will use all 8 cores, and works very well.



So are you saying that FCP will use.... Well it doesn't make any difference, not in my case anyway. I'm going to place my order this week for a quad 2.66 Ghz and FCS. I can't afford the extra $$ for the 8 core system, so I'll just have to settle with a quad. So since it comes with Leopard, I assume FCP will take advantage of a quad?

I figured I would get the basic memory configuration of 1 GB and then buy some 3rd party memory. However, with only 1 GB of installed memory, will Apple support me with any issues I may have? In other words, since I only bought the machine with 1 GB of RAM (even if I do add more later) and have problems with my system are they going to tell me that they can't help me because I only have 1 GB of RAM? If so, would they fully support me if I ordered the box with 2 GB of RAM?

I have one additonal item that I'm going to need right away, and that is a monitor adapter. I'm going to take gl's suggestion and order the computer with the ATI Radeon X1900 XT which comes with two dual-link DVI ports. (2 dual-link DVI ports.... does that mean you can connect 4 monitors?) Although I'm not going be simultaneously connecting two 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Displays, I'm wondering what I'm going to need to connect my 32" Samsung HDTV and my 19" Samsung monitor. The 19" monitor has a SVGA (D-Sub) and a DVI port, while the 32" has a SVGA (D-Sub) connection as well as 2 each HDMI ports. So what is the best way to connect these 2 monitors? Is this something I would be better off purchasing somewhere else?

Thanks for your help, and thanks Tim for explaining that memory stuff.
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MLiebergot
Veteran


Nov 26, 2007, 8:32 PM

Post #25 of 29 (1178 views)
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Re: [Ron Priest] MacPro RAM Upgrade [In reply to] Can't Post

Ron if you plan on taking advantage of HDMI previewing, I would highly recommend the Black Magic Intensity Card.

You have 2 HDMI ports, one for output and one for input.
You can capture straight to PRORES or DVCPROHD direct from your cameras HDMI port.

Then preview to any HDMI monitor for realtime timeline previewing.

If you want you can also get the Intensity Pro, which will give you all of the SD inputs/outputs that you will need. As well as Component in/out.

I am able to curently preview HD footage from my HDV timeline as SD widescreen footage for color correction, when needed.
Of course I plan on adding a HD LCD monitor for previewing via HDMI.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

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