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Home: Video University Forums: Mac Video:
Milticam workflow

Ron Priest
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Jan 30, 2008, 11:12 PM

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Milticam workflow	Can't Post

I really like FCP's multicam abilities, it's working out really nice for me. I would be interested in hearing about your workflow when you have split multicam segments over a long period time. Take a wedding for instance. Say you shoot it with 3 cams and the entire ceremony lasts over an hour. So you have 3 different cams starting at different times, with each of them having a short gap in between swapping out tapes, and then of course they don't all end at the same place either.

Since I Use a stand alone audio recorder I've found it pretty easy to simply lay down my audio without breaks on the timeline, and then fill in my 3 different video tracks and plugging up the gaps with a slug. Then I export each video track into a .mov file and re-import each of the 3 clips into my project and use them to create the multiclip. I know this seems like a lot of extra work, but it makes it a lot easier to then simply edit one complete sequence without having to piece multiple - multicam sequences together (did that make sense?)..

So that's my workflow... so far, unless someone can teach me something easier!
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(This post was edited by Ron Priest on Jan 30, 2008, 11:24 PM)

Timothy Harry
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Jan 30, 2008, 11:33 PM

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Re: [Ron Priest] Milticam workflow [In reply to]	Can't Post

make your cameras timecode run free. on the HVX it is called freerun mode. It makes the cameras timecode run even when there isnt tape rolling. You only want to use it for a long running event though otherwise you run into a bunch of breaks in the code that make it hell to batch capture. I know the XL2 will do a jam sync with another camera, so I would assume any canon camera after that will do it as well. I know I can do it on my HVX. all it takes is a 4 pin to 4 pin firewire cable and some patience. makes for a really easy time in FCP with the multicam feature

Tim Harry

Bandwagon Media
Odessa, TX

"I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job."

Ron Priest
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Jan 30, 2008, 11:41 PM

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Re: [Timothy Harry] Milticam workflow [In reply to]	Can't Post

You kind of lost me there on that one Tim. I'm using VX2100 camera's, and I've already captured this wedding I'm working on and my next 4. I got that 1 TB drive don't ya know, I had to put it to work Wink

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Timothy Harry
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Jan 31, 2008, 8:39 AM

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Re: [Ron Priest] Milticam workflow [In reply to]	Can't Post

there is a way on your camera....or at least on mine and many others to make the timecode run like a clock, instead of stopping and starting with the record button. This is one of the best tools you can use when shooting for multicam, because on many cameras you can sync the timecodes together via a firewire connection at the beginning of the event, so you dont have to search for a sync point somewhere else. It is also handy for that hired help that cant get it through their head to not press the stop button once you start recording....

It sounds like you already have shot the weddings, so the best thing to do is to sync your sources using a loud clap or pop in the wedding. sometimes if I cannot find one of those, I will use a crisp word to get my sync point. then you put them into the multicam workflow telling it to sync by the in or out points, and you are set to just click the shot you want. it works great. The first time I go through the wedding I get the rough cuts, I do not worry about making it exact. I then go back through the sequence with the rolling edit tool to get the cuts and fades at the exact spot I want them. THen I watch it through a third time just to double check, set my chapter markers and export via compressor to DVDSP.

Tim Harry

Bandwagon Media
Odessa, TX

"I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job."

Joel
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Feb 1, 2008, 1:59 AM

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Re: [Ron Priest] Milticam workflow [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Ron,

You've got the right idea but you may be able to save yourself a few steps and some export time - simply nest the track with the clips that are in sync but have a gap. Open that nest and export it out as a video-only Quicktime movie with self-contained unchecked. This will take no time at all to export. Then just bring that in and lay it exactly where the nest was - that track is ready to go. I've been meaning to do a screen capture movie of setting up a timeline for multiclip editing for my editors. The next time I do one myself I'll try to remember to do that...

In Reply To

Joel

"Think of this business as a room with a huge table and a bunch of chairs around the table. There is a big pie on the table. Your mission is to take your place at the table, pick up your fork, and eat your pie. Do not look to the left and do not look to the right. Just eat your pie. There is plenty of pie for everyone."

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(This post was edited by Joel on Feb 1, 2008, 2:00 AM)

Ron Priest
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Feb 1, 2008, 11:19 AM

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Re: [Joel] Milticam workflow [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Hi Ron,

I've been meaning to do a screen capture movie of setting up a timeline for multiclip editing for my editors. The next time I do one myself I'll try to remember to do that...

Thanks Joel, that's a good tip, I'll try that next time. When use the term "nest" your not suggesting nesting the seuence, right? I assume your just using the term as i.e. group...

Here is a picture of my sequence once it's all in sync on the time line, before I export the tracks containing the slug as a filler for the missing media between tape changes.

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Ron Priest
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Feb 1, 2008, 11:23 AM

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Re: [Joel] Milticam workflow [In reply to]	Can't Post

OOps, I guess that's a little big huh? Unsure

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Joel
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Feb 1, 2008, 7:06 PM

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In Reply To

When use the term "nest" your not suggesting nesting the seuence, right? I assume your just using the term as i.e. group...

No - I mean actually nest the clips without slug in between. The clip is smaller and takes a lot less time to export. I have a ceremony to cut this weekend so I'll do a screen capture for how I set it up. Its probably not the fastest way so I will likely learn something from other people's comments.

Joel

"Think of this business as a room with a huge table and a bunch of chairs around the table. There is a big pie on the table. Your mission is to take your place at the table, pick up your fork, and eat your pie. Do not look to the left and do not look to the right. Just eat your pie. There is plenty of pie for everyone."

starting | perfectionists

Timothy Harry
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Feb 2, 2008, 4:32 PM

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Re: [Ron Priest] Milticam workflow [In reply to]	Can't Post

ron....your working too hard man...look into FCP's multiclip function. It will save you a load of time! That was what pushed me from FCP4.5 to version 5 when it came out. its in the manuals, but there is also a great tutorial in the APTS book. If there are multiple tapes, make multiple multicam sequences and nest them on a master timeline. thats how I did my 3 hour long pentecostal revival services last year.....all 10 of them. If I had not used the multicam feature, I would still be editing them now. By the way, it is better to split them instead of combining them with slugs due to performance issues. It has to do with the number of cuts and breaks on the timeline. the more there are, the more the performance degrades.

Tim Harry

Bandwagon Media
Odessa, TX

"I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job."

Joel
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Feb 2, 2008, 7:10 PM

Post #10 of 14 (825 views)
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Re: [Timothy Harry] Milticam workflow [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Tim,

In Reply To

By the way, it is better to split them instead of combining them with slugs due to performance issues. It has to do with the number of cuts and breaks on the timeline. the more there are, the more the performance degrades.

Great point. Nesting, exporting and importing your camera angles that have cuts does use up more computing cycles - something I noticed right away. Coming off of one drive I've bogged down my system with two or three nested tracks in a multicam timeline.

Joel

"Think of this business as a room with a huge table and a bunch of chairs around the table. There is a big pie on the table. Your mission is to take your place at the table, pick up your fork, and eat your pie. Do not look to the left and do not look to the right. Just eat your pie. There is plenty of pie for everyone."

starting | perfectionists

Ron Priest
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Feb 3, 2008, 12:04 PM

Post #11 of 14 (798 views)
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Re: [Timothy Harry] Milticam workflow [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Tim, I appreciate you and Joel's feedback, and I'm trying hard to visualize how your method is going to save me time.

In Reply To

ron....your working too hard man...look into FCP's multiclip function. It will save you a load of time! ... its in the manuals, but there is also a great tutorial in the APTS book.

Well, I have accomplished the lessons on Multicam in both APTS books (Final Cut Pro 6 and Beyond the Basics) Neither of the books give you any examples of how to assemble your clips if there are breaks in any of the camera angles, whether it is because you had to swap out tapes, or one of the operators accidently stopped the camera. It's too bad you can't sync "multiple cuts" in a multiclip using more than a single sync point. (does that make sense?)

In Reply To

If there are multiple tapes, make multiple multicam sequences and nest them on a master timeline.

I understand what your saying about creating multiple multicam sequences then nesting them on a master timeline. However, you're still having to assemble each multicam sequence on a timeline and wouldn't it be even harder after creating the multiclips since you can no longer clearly see where each camera angle starts and stops since they are all represented by a single track of video.

In Reply To

Do you understand that once I assemble all video clips in a sequence using slugs between the broken clips representing the nonexistent media, I am then exporting each track into a single QT video clip, and then using those clips as my source clips for my multiclip. Therefore there are "NO" cuts and breaks in the video clip thereby "increasing performance"

So, help me understand where I'm missing your point? It seems to me, the only additional time involved using my method is having to export new video clips, and that's not taking much time really, and would take even less time if I do what Joel suggested and exported them as a video-only Quicktime movie with self-contained unchecked. One last point here it the fact that Now each is automatically in sync from the beginning to the end of the clip. i.e. no calculated syncing is in evolved really. simply line the beginning of the clips up on the timeline, and use the "in" points as the sync point for the multiclip process.
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Kenneth
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Feb 3, 2008, 2:41 PM

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Ron, when you export the files you are most likely losing quality by compressing it. It's true that we sometimes encounter dropped frames but the more you work at piecing them together the less it will bother you. You're losing way more time exporting than you would be just making 2 or 3 segments and then lining the audio back up and connecting them.
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Timothy Harry
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Feb 4, 2008, 7:19 PM

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sorry ron i did not get that.... maybe i just misread your post. What you are doing actually sounds correct for the multiclips. I honestly thought you were running the old fashioned way and cutting your multiclips by hand so to speak. I did not realize you were using the multiclip tool. On your export, you should export a reference file instead of a full file because it will save a load of space on your drive. other than that it looks like you are doing it correct. Final cut will not recompress the file in an export unless you select recompress all frames unless you have applied filters etc. Basically it would just cobine those files bit for bit, just making it into one huge file. Sorry for the confusion! There is a way to sync multiple cuts, but it involves free run timecode on your cameras, which is a different lesson for a different day :) and some cameras dont have the ability to do it too, which is a possibility as well.

Tim Harry

Bandwagon Media
Odessa, TX

"I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job."

Ron Priest
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Feb 8, 2008, 2:10 AM

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In Reply To

sorry ron i did not get that.... maybe i just misread your post. What you are doing actually sounds correct for the multiclips. ... On your export, you should export a reference file instead of a full file because it will save a load of space on your drive. other than that it looks like you are doing it correct.

Hi Tim

Yeah, that seems to work real good for me. On this reception I'm working now, after I lined it all up on a timeline, and filled in the missing media using slugs I then exported each track (camera angle) out as a clip reference instead of a self contained file. The timeline was a little over 20 minutes but it took less than a minute to export each track. That is a huge time saver.
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