Video University: Video University Forums: Mac Video: iDVD

VideoUniversity.com
Home	Free Library	Store
Free Catalog Please support VU by making your B&H purchases and links through this B&H ad. Doesn't cost a penny more.

See The New VU Postcard Catalog

To post in the forums see the Forum Guidelines.

Join or Renew Today.
New Benefits for all VU Members

Forum Guidelines and FAQ
Main Index	Search Posts
Who's Online	Log In

Home: Video University Forums: Mac Video:
iDVD

achilles23
User

Dec 21, 2005, 7:06 AM

Post #1 of 14 (3906 views)
Shortcut

iDVD	Can't Post

When using iDVD, how can I solve the problem of my file being to big. My video is about 2 hours and 20 minutes long and iDVD keeps tellings me it cant burn it. Is there not a way to make videos in iDVD that are over 2 hours. Im using DVD-R 8X 120min maxwell dics. Thanks.

RatVega
Enthusiast

Dec 22, 2005, 4:04 AM

Post #2 of 14 (3884 views)
Shortcut

Re: [achilles23] iDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

Your choices in iDVD are limited - cut shorter movies or do the "to be continued..." trick.

If you upgrade to DVD Studio Pro, you have a lot of options because you dictate the encoding for both the video and the audio. A friend of mine did 3.75 hours on a standard 4.7GB DVD using DVDSP - said it still looked better than VHS.

Part of the flexibility comes from Dolby AC-3 audio encoding, the rest comes from the ability to set lower bitrates for the video encoding. You also get on heck of a nice authoring system.

______________________________________________________________
Currently on a loaded 2.5GHz G5 dualie/5GB/1TB internal RAID/dual 19" monitors. Final Cut Studio, Adobe Suite, Boris RED. Shooting with Canon.

VU California Crew, Inland Empire Sub-Chapter (paragraph?)

LarsCA
User

Dec 22, 2005, 3:55 PM

Post #3 of 14 (3865 views)
Shortcut

Re: [achilles23] iDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

Go to >iDVD>Preferences
In the General setting, there's the "Encoder Settings" window. Your options are "Best Quality" or "Best Performance". Now, I've never tried to burn a project as long as yours, but from memory I think as long as the Best Quality option is enabled, iDVD won't encode your project until you're done building the DVD. Then it takes a look at it, realizes it's bigger than it can be, and choses the proper encoder to compress it to the largest possible size. Let me know if that solves your problem. Wink

MERRY CHRISTMAS

---
So many toys, so little time. And no money so it doesn't matter anyway...

ThomasG
User

Dec 22, 2005, 3:56 PM

Post #4 of 14 (3865 views)
Shortcut

Re: [achilles23] iDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

If you buy a new Mac with a dual-layer Superdrive then iDVD will accept more than 3 hours to burn on a DL disc. But that probably is impractical. An alternative to DVD SP is Toast 7 which also uses AC-3 encoding and can easily fit your movie to a single-layer disc. However, Toast's menus are basic.

achilles23
User

Dec 22, 2005, 4:37 PM

Post #5 of 14 (3860 views)
Shortcut

Re: [LarsCA] iDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yeah I finally figured that out yesterday and it worked. Thanks for the help though.

garycox
User

Jan 4, 2006, 10:28 AM

Post #6 of 14 (3736 views)
Shortcut

Re: [achilles23] iDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

As someone mentioned you can only get a max of 2 hours using IDVD and a single layer DVD plus menu's cut some into that... I'm not sure if IDVD support dual layer DVD burners yet or not but that's how the studio is able to get so much on a DVD.

However, I found that in a recent project where I had an 1 hour and 45 minutes it fit on a single layer DVD just fine however, in watching it I could see where compression was occuring. Most people can't see it but I was able to home in on items in the background that I could see starting and stopping and that's where the space is saved on the video. To some extent I see it on my Direct TV signal too...

So to get around that I split my project up into two DVD's and I'm not able to pick out that compression. So even with DVD studio, a 2 hour and 20 minute project would have to be really compressed so you would be able to see some compression in the picture or you might say a drop in quality. Depending on if that bothers you or the person you are making it for determines if you should split it or not. I typically opt for the hightest quality and in my case this time the person I'm making the DVD for has a huge big screen TV, the compression would be more noticable to them...

... Gary

RatVega
Enthusiast

Jan 4, 2006, 3:00 PM

Post #7 of 14 (3729 views)
Shortcut

Re: [garycox] iDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

So to get around that I split my project up into two DVD's and I'm not able to pick out that compression. So even with DVD studio, a 2 hour and 20 minute project would have to be really compressed so you would be able to see some compression in the picture or you might say a drop in quality.

You're overlooking one major difference between DVDSP and iDVD that makes your statement untrue. While it's true that the video compression will generally be lower on a longer clip (both systems use the same codec), DVDSP has the ability to handle Dolby AC-3 audio, which is a significantly smaller file, leaving more room for video encoded at a higher quality.

An hour of 48/16 AIFF audio has a filesize in the 650MB range, the same clip encoded as AC-3 at 192 kbps is about 80MB. The difference is about an eighth of the total DVD capacity.

We tend to forget that the bitrate budget we work with has two components (audio and video) and that a big decrease in one allows for a higher bitrate in the other. This translates directly into better video quality if the encoding system is flexible enough to support it.

I'm not putting iDVD down, it's a good product (and an excellent value) but DVDSP is vastly superior in this and other respects.

______________________________________________________________
Currently on a loaded 2.5GHz G5 dualie/5GB/1TB internal RAID/dual 19" monitors. Final Cut Studio, Adobe Suite, Boris RED. Shooting with Canon.

VU California Crew, Inland Empire Sub-Chapter (paragraph?)

garycox
User

Jan 4, 2006, 3:34 PM

Post #8 of 14 (3724 views)
Shortcut

Re: [RatVega] iDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

Actually you are right about that, I forgot about the AC-3 audio in DVDSP. Still 2 or more hours on a 4.7 gig DVD I would think would be pushing it but I would have to see it to compair. I use my eyeball on a big TV to judge quality. If I can see the compression easily I judge it less quality than a typical store purchased DVD where you have a hard time picking out any compression.

... Gary

RatVega
Enthusiast

Jan 4, 2006, 4:10 PM

Post #9 of 14 (3722 views)
Shortcut

Re: [garycox] iDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

After two hours, all bets are off... The "AC-3 effect" still holds, but the absolute volume of footage will mean degradation for sure.

______________________________________________________________
Currently on a loaded 2.5GHz G5 dualie/5GB/1TB internal RAID/dual 19" monitors. Final Cut Studio, Adobe Suite, Boris RED. Shooting with Canon.

VU California Crew, Inland Empire Sub-Chapter (paragraph?)

jccam
New User

Feb 10, 2006, 8:17 PM

Post #10 of 14 (3433 views)
Shortcut

Re: [RatVega] iDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

This thread comes close to the info I need. I want to take my 2-hour, 10 minute home movie and burn it on to one dual-layer DVD at decent quality! Seems like a simple request...

Well, it seems that iDVD 5 does not support dual-layer burning AT ALL without a stock Apple superdrive. I'm using a Pioneer 110D that I just installed myself, then ran Patchburn to get iDVD to recognize it. It recognizes it, but will only burn single layer. Aargh!

I have Toast Titanium 6.0.9 but not sure what I need to do to burn my 2-hour+ iDVD movie. I thought about saving it as a disc image with iDVD and then dragging that image into Toast, BUT iDVD will not save it as a disc image because it exceeds the maximum length! Am I caught in a Catch-22? I can drag an iMovie into Toast but--I'm new to Toast--how do I preview the menus and so forth? I really wish I could get iDVD-style menus and its features. Are my only options to buy a new Mac with an internal superdrive, or buy DVDSP? Will DVDSP even work with a Pioneer 110D?
Thanks for any help you can give.

RatVega
Enthusiast

Feb 10, 2006, 10:14 PM

Post #11 of 14 (3413 views)
Shortcut

Re: [jccam] iDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

This thread comes close to the info I need. I want to take my 2-hour, 10 minute home movie and burn it on to one dual-layer DVD at decent quality! Seems like a simple request...

This can easily be done without using a dual-layer DVD, and there has been a lot said lately about compatibility of burned dual-layer disks and set-top players. Burned DLs generally play fine on computers, but have issues with many set-top readers.

Well, it seems that iDVD 5 does not support dual-layer burning AT ALL without a stock Apple superdrive. I'm using a Pioneer 110D that I just installed myself, then ran Patchburn to get iDVD to recognize it. It recognizes it, but will only burn single layer. Aargh!

Frankly, I didn't think iDVD5 supported DL for anything... (I don't use it.)

I have Toast Titanium 6.0.9 but not sure what I need to do to burn my 2-hour+ iDVD movie. I thought about saving it as a disc image with iDVD and then dragging that image into Toast, BUT iDVD will not save it as a disc image because it exceeds the maximum length! Am I caught in a Catch-22? I can drag an iMovie into Toast but--I'm new to Toast--how do I preview the menus and so forth? I really wish I could get iDVD-style menus and its features. Are my only options to buy a new Mac with an internal superdrive, or buy DVDSP? Will DVDSP even work with a Pioneer 110D?

To burn your project in Toast, you'll probably need to encode it there.

You sound like a prime candidate for DVD Studio Pro. DVDSP supports break-point setting for DL, but again, you won't really need to go to DL to get a good quality production since you can encode the audio as AC-3 and make room for extra footage. You'll have Compressor available to make any ever-so-slight adjustments that might be required.

I feel like a bit of a traitor saying this, but for budget as well as technical reasons, you should see if you can get a copy of DVDSP3 (4 is the current version.) There are issues with Compressor2 which is included with DVDSP4, and until you're well seated in encoding and authoring, you will probably prefer version 3. The big feature difference between the two is HD support. I'm thinking you could cruise ebay for a copy of 3.

Feel free to ask questions...

______________________________________________________________
Currently on a loaded 2.5GHz G5 dualie/5GB/1TB internal RAID/dual 19" monitors. Final Cut Studio, Adobe Suite, Boris RED. Shooting with Canon.

VU California Crew, Inland Empire Sub-Chapter (paragraph?)

ThomasG
User

Feb 10, 2006, 11:15 PM

Post #12 of 14 (3401 views)
Shortcut

Re: [jccam] iDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I believe iDVD 6 supports DL burning to external drives, but you should check Apple's description or posts at Apple's iDVD discussions forum.

You can use Toast 6.0.9 to author and burn your DL video DVD from you 130-minute video. I suggest choosing Save as Disc Image from the Toast File menu and then mounting and playing the image file to see if it is the quality you want. Then burn the disc image to DVD using the Image File setting in the Toast Copy window.

Do not use Toast 6.0.9 if you've updated to QuickTime 7. You need to update to Toast 6.1.1 or purchase Toast 7 when using QT 7. By the way, Toast 7 has a far superior MPEG encoder than the one in Toast 6 and it does AC-3 audio encoding. You'd be much happier with it.

jccam
New User

Feb 11, 2006, 7:20 PM

Post #13 of 14 (3368 views)
Shortcut

Re: [RatVega] iDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks to you both for the info.

Do you know if DVD Studio Pro 3 actually allows you to burn Dual Layer to a non-Apple superdrive like the Pioneer 110D? I'm now intrigued by the idea of checking out Studio Pro and learning about all the different encoding options. In a nutshell, what the best encoding option for highest quality? I assume that whatever uses the least compression... Or the AC-3 option for audio, so that there's more room left on the disc for better quality video.

For my own projects, I don't want to try to cram, say, 3 or 4 hours of video onto a single layer disc--I care too much about quality. For my 2-hr, 10 min movie perhaps... but there will be times when I want to burn on a DL at the best quality, which I assume is about 2 hours.

RatVega
Enthusiast

Feb 11, 2006, 10:41 PM

Post #14 of 14 (3351 views)
Shortcut

Re: [jccam] iDVD [In reply to]	Can't Post

I checked into my DVDSP3 help files, and it can build the dual layer project, but not burn it. (Two years ago, the whole dual-layer burner thing was iffy at best.)

If Toast can perform the actual formatting, then you're OK.

The best option for highest quality is 2-pass VBR encoding, as close to 9 mbps as you can get without choking the player. In practice, this means using AC-3 and keeping the video max mbps around 7-7.5 and the average in the 6 range. Every clip is a little different, but the good news is that DVDSP/Compressor are capable of much higher quality than DVD burner requires.

The only way I know to get 4 hours of quality on a standard DVD is to encode as MPEG-4 and write the disk as a DVD-ROM. It won't play in a DVD reader, but you can't have everything...

In realistic terms, you can get two hours with AC-3 and it'll look fine. After that it gets gritty. You should be able to get close to twice that on a dual layer disk, but the burn is going to be looooooong...

Oh, another thing about using DVDSP is that it understands the compression markers you can set in FCP to assist in eliminate artifacts in difficult footage. But that's yet another topic. Smile