Video University: Video University Forums: Mac Video: urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro

VideoUniversity.com
Home	Free Library	Store
Free Catalog Please support VU by making your B&H purchases and links through this B&H ad. Doesn't cost a penny more.

See The New VU Postcard Catalog

To post in the forums see the Forum Guidelines.

Join or Renew Today.
New Benefits for all VU Members

Forum Guidelines and FAQ
Main Index	Search Posts
Who's Online	Log In

Home: Video University Forums: Mac Video:
urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro

cathya
User

May 8, 2008, 7:06 AM

Post #1 of 23 (370 views)
Shortcut

urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro	Can't Post

Hi everyone,

Sorry but I'm also going to put this in the members forum as I'm worried not too many people visit here :(
I have a subcontractor that has a Mac and edited an event for me in HDV and has use Final Cut pro and the DVD burning program DVD pro to make the DVD. The quality is really poor... lots of jagged lines on the footage both on a LCD HD tv and a SD tv set (worse on sd tv). I'm wondering what settings you Mac users are using when you wish to downcovert your HD footage to DVD?

The footage is interlaced but he set it to compress to progressive. He also used 2 pass VBR and Best for the motion movement thing?

The strange thing is that on his sony dvd player and lcd screen the footage looks good but on mine it looks terrible... jagged lines on all the movement and very pixelated in certain area.

I really need to get this job out but the subcontractor is supplying me with the finsihed edited project on DVD and then I'll make my copies from that.

My DVDs that I make out of Avid Liquid 7 from a HD timeline to SD look brilliant so I'm a little confused as to why the quality is so poor when apple is meant to have a much better encoder than my pc editing program.

Anyone care to share what has gone wrong?

Cath

(This post was edited by cathya on May 8, 2008, 7:07 AM)

2ndMile
Enthusiast

May 8, 2008, 7:13 AM

Post #2 of 23 (366 views)
Shortcut

Re: [cathya] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

http://www.videouniversity.com/forums/gforum.cgi?post=415339;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Brian Morris
2ndMile Blog

MLiebergot
Veteran

May 8, 2008, 9:56 AM

Post #3 of 23 (354 views)
Shortcut

Re: [cathya] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

I don't think the problem is DVD Studio Pro, but his workflow to get it there.

1. Before he exports the file from FCP, he should go into his FCP Preferences, change his render setting for the timeline to Apple ProRes 422.
2. Export the timeline from FCP as a Quicktime (self contained) file (with frames re-compress checked). (do not export to compressor)
3. Open Compressor and drag the QT file into the dock. Then select SD DVD from the preset for the amount of time needed for the disc 90min best etc. This will place both m2v and ac3 presets to encode the video. He can tweak teh settings a bot more if he desires (add more bitrate to his video encode if needed). Now he simply starts the encode and waits.
4. Open DVD Studio Pro and import files as needed and create your DVD. DVD Studio pro should not have to reencode anything.

If desired he can apply deinterlace while in Compressor. Although there are some who might nest the FCP sequence and apply a deinterlace filter (Nattress works better than FCP deinterlacer), which wil be applied during export of the Quicktime file.

I don't know what to say in regards to looking different in different DVD players. If there are problems with DVD compatibility it usually won't show up as interlacing problems.
Also, it sounds like the DVD is still interlaced and not progressive, as you seem to be getting Interlacing artifacts and scan lines when viewed on your DVD player.

Did you happen to try the DVD on another payer that you may have?

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

chucksav
User

May 8, 2008, 10:43 AM

Post #4 of 23 (343 views)
Shortcut

Re: [cathya] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

Sounds like a field-order issue at the the compression stage. HDV is upper field first. Deinterlacing won't help if the field order is wrong from the start. Does your project have a lot of compositing, color correction or effects? If not, then, with due respect to Michael's suggestion, rendering to ProRes is probably a waste of time, especially if you are exporting back out to HDV anyway.

MLiebergot
Veteran

May 8, 2008, 10:59 AM

Post #5 of 23 (336 views)
Shortcut

Re: [chucksav] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

I agree about the field order, but rememer it worked on his DVD player which s puzzling.

And if he created the SD DVD file in Compressor then it should have converted the field order to lower field first for SD DVD.
Although we don't know how he created the DVD files, as there's no mention of Compressor in the mix.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

cathya
User

May 8, 2008, 7:45 PM

Post #6 of 23 (316 views)
Shortcut

Re: [2ndMile] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Brian for this link... it made for interesting reading. I actually think that he is making his DVD straight out of Final Cut pro... is this possible. As I know he did not make a quicktime movie and then put this into Compressor 3.

I think last night we may have worked out the problem as he had filmed with an interlaced hd camera but then changed the output to progressive. He has a progressive sony lcd and it looks good on that.

He is also going to set the settings how I do mine from PC eg: Top Field first, 1 pass vbr, bit rate highest 7000 - lowest 6000 and see what comes out. He's bringing another version over tonight so I can see how it turns out.

I have also asked him to put the HD edited version off his timeline back to tape so I can recapture into my editing program and output a file from it and then create a DVD if his way does not work.

Thank you again for posting this information so quickly

Cathy

cathya
User

May 8, 2008, 7:48 PM

Post #7 of 23 (315 views)
Shortcut

Re: [MLiebergot] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hey Michael,
Thanks for your clear instructions.. I'll make sure I let him read this workflow. He had the bitrate set to 9000 with 2 pass vbr, Best Motion Estimate, ac3 dolby digital and progressive which I think has been the problem. His lcd is progressive and my tv even my hd lcds are interlaced so I have told him to do it interlaced.. please see post that I wrote to Brian above for more detail

Cathy

cathya
User

May 8, 2008, 7:49 PM

Post #8 of 23 (314 views)
Shortcut

Re: [chucksav] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

He is going to redo it with top field first... lets see if it helps. Thanks for your input.

Cathy

MLiebergot
Veteran

May 8, 2008, 8:03 PM

Post #9 of 23 (310 views)
Shortcut

Re: [cathya] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ok, first major thing is take that bitrate down. He should not be going over 8000 or risk problems with DVD players.

Usually keeping the bitrate around 6500-7000 is good (make sure he changes the bitrate in Compressor to this), but I would say don't do 8000-or over, or risk problems with DVD players.
And you are right Progressive very well could be the problem, as there's no need to deinterlace unless you are going web or such.

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

MLiebergot
Veteran

May 8, 2008, 8:05 PM

Post #10 of 23 (306 views)
Shortcut

Re: [cathya] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

No do not make it top field first, keep it bottom field first.
You woudl only encode top field first, if you are going to be making a HD movie (BLURAY) and such. Since you are encoding a SD DVD, then you want it encoded to lower field.

In Reply To

He is going to redo it with top field first... lets see if it helps. Thanks for your input.

Cathy

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

cathya
User

May 8, 2008, 8:10 PM

Post #11 of 23 (306 views)
Shortcut

Re: [MLiebergot] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

Cool.... yep.. that bitrate is way too high so he is going to follow this:

higest 7000 lowest 6000
1 pass vbr
Motion Estimate - Best (Do you use this and does this help?)
top field first
interlaced

I do all my weddings from HD timeline downcovert in editing program to DVD and they look great and I've never had any probs.. mine are done with the settings above except I don't have that motion estimate thing.

Do you use 2 pass vbr? Does this make a difference in the quality of the footage?

Do you use DVD it pro HD ? If so what file do you produce out of your Mac to get the HD footage into DVD it pro Hd so you can produce a blu-ray?

(*he gave me a Sd m2v file just to try with dolby digital ac3 sound and while the m2v file went in fine the audio would not play* He will be giving me a hd file aswell so I can make a blu-ray file).

I'll see the outcome later today.

Thanks again
Cathy

(This post was edited by cathya on May 8, 2008, 8:12 PM)

MLiebergot
Veteran

May 8, 2008, 8:24 PM

Post #12 of 23 (301 views)
Shortcut

Re: [cathya] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

Cathy your formula looks good but make sure that your field order is NOT "Top field first". Since this will be a SD DVD, then you want it to be "Bottom field first"
You would use top filed first when encoding a HD video clip for BLURAY or any other HD ONLY distribution.

As for the motion estimate being set to "Best", that fine. But in mist instanced "Good should suffice. Best will add a lot more encoding time to the render and might not really be worth it.
2-Pass VBR will give yo a better image (not drastically), but it will be better. Of course this wil also double your encoding times.

I haven't used DVD it Pro. I have used DVD Studio Pro which is part of the FC Studio suite. My normal workflow woudl be FCP--export to Quicktime (self contained)--QT file in Compressor for encoding---DVD studio Pro for creation and printing of DVD.

I haven't made any HD DVDs yet as there really isn't any support for BLURAY on a MAC yet.
Also, I do a lot of work via Bootcamp on my MAC using Sony Vegas. But again only deal with SD DVDs.

In Reply To

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

Kenneth
Veteran

May 8, 2008, 9:29 PM

Post #13 of 23 (289 views)
Shortcut

Re: [cathya] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

any idea why the AC3 file wouldn't work? This is the standard audio file for DVDs.
......................................................................
Philadelphia Wedding Video
The Kenneth Stillman Blog
Philadelphia Trash the Dress

cathya
User

May 8, 2008, 11:17 PM

Post #14 of 23 (279 views)
Shortcut

Re: [MLiebergot] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

Michael,

Does it make a difference if the HDV camera he used to film the event is interlaced (lower field) with the fact that you are saying to still output lower field first (wouldn't that still make it progressive?).

I don't go into so much detail when I do my DVDs I just know that my PC and my editing program produce pretty good SD DVD from my HD TIMELINE :)

Cheers
cATH

cathya
User

May 8, 2008, 11:18 PM

Post #15 of 23 (278 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Kenneth] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

i have no idea why the audio file won't work in dvdit pro hd... I'm going to try again today and see if I can work out why.. I'll post back any news.
Cath

Kenneth
Veteran

May 9, 2008, 12:13 AM

Post #16 of 23 (266 views)
Shortcut

Re: [cathya] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

Here's your problem. I got this from the Roxio site:

DVDit uses Dolby Digital Consumer Encoder technology, offering users the ability to create amazing DVD-video and Blu-ray Disc soundtracks in surround sound from a PC and provides pass through of 5.1 channel surround sound audio, delivering high-quality discrete multichannel audio without compromising video quality. This product does not use Dolby Digital Professional Encoder technology which is intended for use in professional applications such as broadcast, cable head-end facilities, the authoring or creation of content for broad commercial distribution or for real time streaming application.
......................................................................
Philadelphia Wedding Video
The Kenneth Stillman Blog
Philadelphia Trash the Dress

Kenneth
Veteran

May 9, 2008, 12:18 AM

Post #17 of 23 (263 views)
Shortcut

Re: [cathya] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

all the codecs in Compressor clearly state that they are "professional".

Have your guy export the audio as AIFF.
......................................................................
Philadelphia Wedding Video
The Kenneth Stillman Blog
Philadelphia Trash the Dress

MLiebergot
Veteran

May 9, 2008, 12:38 AM

Post #18 of 23 (259 views)
Shortcut

Re: [cathya] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

Lower field and upper field doesn't make a picture progressive.
It's the removal of the extra frame that would make up an interlaced image that does it.
If he shot with an HD camera then it was shot upper field first. If the image was shot in SD (non HD/HDV) then it will always be lower field first.

So if you are making an SD DVD (even converting upper field first HD content) then the SD DVD field order must be set to lower field first or you will have issues.
When he uses Compressor to make the DVD files from his Quicktime file, and selects the SD DVD preset, then it should set the proper field order anyway to lower field SD.

In Reply To

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

cathya
User

May 9, 2008, 12:42 AM

Post #19 of 23 (259 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Kenneth] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Kenneth... UPDATE.

I tried again to get the SD m2v file into dvdit prohd... all worked. I then dropped in the professional dolby ac3 audio and it worked I had to open up another channel or something and it played it fine... while the footage looked terrible eg:jagged lines I thought I would output it to dvd using High Quality VBR and it looked heaps better on the normal tv no jagged lines and on the lcd while not perfect it was a great improvement.

So.. I think the compression to progressive that he has done has been the issue along with the high bitrate of 9000.

He is redoing it for me and we will see how it turns out.. .I will keep everyone updated.

He is also going to give me a Quicktime FULL hd file so I'm going to do a blu-ray from that.

I have already done one wedding in blu-ray and it looks fantastic.

thanks for all your help

Cathy

cathya
User

May 9, 2008, 12:47 AM

Post #20 of 23 (255 views)
Shortcut

Re: [MLiebergot] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

Michael,,,, does it change things if I tell you I'm in the land of PAL and not NTSC?
Wink

Kenneth
Veteran

May 9, 2008, 1:17 AM

Post #21 of 23 (251 views)
Shortcut

Re: [cathya] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

the 9000 bit rate is waaaay to highand that could be the issue. A DVD player can ply back up to 9.8 (This is what I read, but I could be wrong).

But you also have to leave some data room for the audio. I think even 8 is too high. I stick to 6.2 - 7
......................................................................
Philadelphia Wedding Video
The Kenneth Stillman Blog
Philadelphia Trash the Dress

MLiebergot
Veteran

May 9, 2008, 6:49 AM

Post #22 of 23 (214 views)
Shortcut

Re: [cathya] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nope, the formula stays the same regardless, PAL or NTSC. Smile

In Reply To

Michael,,,, does it change things if I tell you I'm in the land of PAL and not NTSC?
Wink

Michael

Cameras: I do use them.
Audio: Yes, it does come with audio if you like.
Software: I am learning...
Support: I need all that i can get.
Computer: MAC BABY!

cathya
User

May 11, 2008, 8:55 AM

Post #23 of 23 (132 views)
Shortcut

Re: [MLiebergot] urgent: Settings for DVD in Final Cut pro [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Michael,

Just a quick update to let you know that he redid the export I think he actually used top field first, 2 pass vbr, best for motion estimation, kept it interlaced and the bitrate lowest 6000 highest 7000 and we have success.

It plays well so all is good.

I would love him to try and do it lower field first to see the difference but the one he has done plays fine on 2 of my DVD players and my ps3 :)

Thanks guys for all your help.

It was definately a combination of too high bitrate and making it progressive :)

Cheers
Cathy