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Home: Video University Forums: Sony DV and DVCAM Forum:
Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM

dansen
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Oct 21, 2005, 11:58 AM

Post #1 of 15 (3122 views)
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Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM	Can't Post

Might be a stupid question to you users of DVCAM but here goes:
I heard that if I want to use a Sony DVCAM camera and use miniDV tape then I can get say 1 hour onto a 40 minute tape? Or something like that? Sound familiar?

mgutman
Novice

Oct 21, 2005, 2:57 PM

Post #2 of 15 (3114 views)
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Re: [dansen] Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM [In reply to]	Can't Post

DVCam runs tape at 1.5 times the speed of DV.

You can use a DV tape in DVCam mode -or- a DVCam tape in DV mode. A 60 minute DV tape will record for 40 minutes if recorded in DVCam mode. A 40 minute DVCam tape will record for 60 minutes in DV mode.

Both tapes have the same amount of tape footage on them, but they are time-labeled for their respective intended formats.

HTH,
Mike

dansen
User

Oct 22, 2005, 5:08 PM

Post #3 of 15 (3088 views)
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Re: [mgutman] Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM [In reply to]	Can't Post

So are DVCAM tapes cheaper than miniDV? You can probably see where I'm going here -- you could use cheaper DVCAM tapes that are forty minutes long, pop them into your DV camera and voila! You've used a forty minute tape and got sixty minutes out of it. Any pros and cons to doing this quality wise?

mgutman
Novice

Oct 22, 2005, 7:18 PM

Post #4 of 15 (3082 views)
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Re: [dansen] Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM [In reply to]	Can't Post

DVCam tapes are very expensive - about 4 times the cost of a DV tape. They are made to very precise standards but there is no benefit to using them if you don't need to.

(This post was edited by mgutman on Oct 22, 2005, 7:24 PM)

celycom
Novice

Nov 10, 2005, 11:35 AM

Post #5 of 15 (2959 views)
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Re: [mgutman] Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM [In reply to]	Can't Post

One of the greatest pleasures of switcvhing to DVCAM from BetaSP was the lack of "drop-outs" - the little glitches that often showed up making a second take neccessary. As long as I stick to DVCAM stock, not Mini-DV, I get pristine images. However, I have noticed some "drop-outs" when I've used the cheaper Mini-DV tapes. If it is really important, I am not going to cut corners and use a cheaper stock.

Also, probably everyone knows this, but I'll say it again, just to make sure. Avoid mixing stocks from different manufacturers! Different binder materials often react poorly, causing clogged heads and otehr transport problems. I have never run anything except Sony DVCAM or Mini-DV stock in my camera (Sony DSR-500WS) and never will.

Postal_Boy
Veteran

Nov 11, 2005, 4:27 PM

Post #6 of 15 (2942 views)
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Re: [celycom] Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM [In reply to]	Can't Post

When you use DVCAM tapes, do you record at DVCAM speed? Do you get the same results if you record in DVCAM mode to a standard minidv tape? The main difference is the speed the tape runs at, although there may be some quality differences between them.

A DVCAM tape is not 40 minutes. It is the same "length" as a miniDV. The difference is that you run it through the camera at a faster rate.
__________________________

PD-170, Dual athlon 2200+, 1gig ram,, Vegas, Combustion, Photoshop, dual monitor (ashamed of the video card, so I won't mention it), Samson wireless, and a couple of one-chippers (sony) just for the heck of it. - And an IRIVER

celycom
Novice

Nov 11, 2005, 4:39 PM

Post #7 of 15 (2940 views)
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Re: [Postal_Boy] Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM [In reply to]	Can't Post

My camera will only record at DVCAM speed. Again, DVCAM tape stock is superior to most Mini-DV stocks, and I DO NOT get results as good with Mini-DV as I do with DVCAM stock. While there a difference in the speed - and therefore - the amount of tape media upon which the video and audio signal is recorded on, there is a significant difference in the tape stock itself. That is key... I ALWAYS use DVCAM stock, though I LOVE the fact that good quality Mini-DV stock makes a heck of a great back up, if needed!

Best regards,

Don in Atlanta

Postal_Boy
Veteran

Nov 14, 2005, 6:25 PM

Post #8 of 15 (2909 views)
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Re: [celycom] Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM [In reply to]	Can't Post

Cool...what camera do you use that only runs DVCAM speed?

-Postal
__________________________

PD-170, Dual athlon 2200+, 1gig ram,, Vegas, Combustion, Photoshop, dual monitor (ashamed of the video card, so I won't mention it), Samson wireless, and a couple of one-chippers (sony) just for the heck of it. - And an IRIVER

celycom
Novice

Nov 14, 2005, 7:47 PM

Post #9 of 15 (2906 views)
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Re: [Postal_Boy] Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM [In reply to]	Can't Post

DSR-500WSL... 5 year old technology, but still a "big boy" camera. 2/3" 16x9 CCDs, and the sucker does shoot pretty good pictures.

One of the things I love about DVCAM is being able to pick up "emergency" stock at a local WalMart or even convenience store! I've had to do that at least a couple of times, and since my eariler clients were all about BetaSP, that has given me the ability to shoot comparable (if not better) material, and still have a "fall-back" if we ran out of stock. (OK, I know, that shouldn't happen, but it can!) MiniDV stock can be run through a DVCAM camera and it is FAR better than nothing!

Cheers,

Don in Atlanta

ProDV
User

Nov 21, 2005, 11:10 AM

Post #10 of 15 (2838 views)
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Re: [celycom] Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Hi Don,

Are you saying that using DVCAM tape actually provides a better picture than DV tape, or just that you get less dropouts?

This subject has come up again and again, and the fact is that regardless of the media used, picture quality is always identical, with more *possible* dropouts being the only issue with "lesser" formats.

DVCAM, MiniDV, Digital8, and even DV in LP mode are simply recording 1s and 0s to the tape. You could connect Firewire from your DSR-500 to a $200 D8 camera and get identical quality laid down on the D8 tape, then Firewire that back to the DSR-500 and never know the difference.

If you have a digital still image (a .jpeg for instance), or a text file, audio file, whatever, on your computer - it makes NO difference whether you record it to a floppy disc, a CD, a USB jump drive, or send it through email. It's a digital file, 1s and 0s, and the file will remain identical regardless of the medium it's on.

DV/DVCAM works the same way. DROPOUTS are the only difference. Yes, this info is being written to different width of tracks, but it is THE SAME INFORMATION. On a narrow track, such as DV LP, there is more chance of a dropout (still very seldom) but the video quality is no less than with DVCAM because it's the same info, no difference.

I have an older friend in the business who is very "old school" and is now shooting DVCAM, but will still argue passionately, based on analog tape experience, that a wider track has "more information" on it and thus a better picture quality.....

Don, if you were only referring to getting less dropouts with DVCAM, my apologies, but if you believe the picture looks better, it just not so.

Regards,

Jeff

celycom
Novice

Nov 21, 2005, 11:27 AM

Post #11 of 15 (2835 views)
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Re: [ProDV] Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi, thanks for the well written response!

Sorry I wasn't more clear... PICTURE QUALITY IS THE SAME, however, there are fewer dropouts with good, DVCAM stock than with consumer MiniDV stock.

Thanks again for helping to clarify my incomplete post.

Regards,

Don

ssvp
User

Nov 30, 2005, 2:25 AM

Post #12 of 15 (2644 views)
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Re: [celycom] Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM [In reply to]	Can't Post

I gave up buying DVCAM tapes for my PD-170's and switched back to $3.00 Sony DV Tapes.. Basically I never saw a difference and of course after being laughed at by the Sony techs for stating I only used DVCAM tapes in it and them poking fun saying "So you really think there is a big difference in those tapes? AHAHAHAHhaah"

Now the HDV/Digital Master DVCAM tapes I believe are actually a thickness difference, I know I sent my 170 down to Sony and they said they could make adjustments to use those tapes, but they were designed for the HD Sony Cameras and don't have a real good track record with the 150/170's..

Anyways, I use good ole Sony DV 60's which I record in DVCAM mode which brings them to roughly 41 minutes give or take.. I can say this for sure, you never want to reuse a DVCAM or DV Tape that was shot in DVCAM and record DV mode over it.. I made that mistake and it only took 1 time.. Talk about dropouts, well actually it's more like dropins from the DVCAM footage as described to me popping in and out through the holes in the DV Format or the way its written to tape at least..

celycom
Novice

Nov 30, 2005, 8:52 AM

Post #13 of 15 (2610 views)
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Re: [ssvp] Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM [In reply to]	Can't Post

If you heard "Sony Techs" laughing at you for only using DVCAM stock instead of MiniDV, they were actually impersonators.

Sony DV60s (labeled DVM60) are an excellent choice of stock... and I always carry a few for back ups. However, I have seen dropout, have heard others talk about it, and maintain that the metal evaporation technology used on the DVCAM stock is superior. Besides, it even reflects Sony's typical marketting/supply approach: they even used to do this with tube cameras... make a big batch. Test it and sell the cream of the crop as Broadcast, second best to Industrial, next step down to Prosumer, then Consumer, and so on.

BTW, GREAT TIP about not trying to reuse DVCAM recorded stock for MiniDV projects! While I degauss tapes that I reuse for unimportant projects, I'll bet most people's technique of "Blacking" them would NOT work for previously DVCAM recored tapes. Thanks for a good tip!

Bob A
Veteran

Nov 30, 2005, 9:02 AM

Post #14 of 15 (2609 views)
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Re: [ssvp] Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I can say this for sure, you never want to reuse a DVCAM or DV Tape that was shot in DVCAM and record DV mode over it.. I made that mistake and it only took 1 time.. Talk about dropouts, well actually it's more like dropins from the DVCAM footage as described to me popping in and out through the holes in the DV Format or the way its written to tape at least..

Please don't make such sweeping cautions based on your singular experience. That is not typical and only indicates a problem with tyour equipment. I don't know of another videographer that has ever reported with any issue like that including myself. I have re-recorded over DVCam, DV and DV LP, to a different speed at least 100 times without a single hitch.

DSR-450
Novice

Dec 15, 2005, 11:29 AM

Post #15 of 15 (2132 views)
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Re: [celycom] Recording on miniDV in a DVCAM [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I ALWAYS use DVCAM stock, though I LOVE the fact that good quality Mini-DV stock makes a heck of a great back up, if needed!

I've never used a mini DVCAM tape in my DSR-300, 390 or 450. Always just good 'ol Sony DV tapes. Never had a problem. The only problem I've had is using Panasonic DV tapes, which always cause a head clog in my playback DSR-30 deck. But that's another thread...