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Home: Video University Forums: Sony DV and DVCAM Forum:
Sony PD170 vs. VX2100

 

 


mdslammer
Novice

Jul 30, 2004, 10:20 AM

Post #1 of 8 (2161 views)
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Sony PD170 vs. VX2100 Can't Post

Hi Guys,

I'm an audio guy looking to make an investment in a camera. I have been trying to educate myself by getting as much info on these two cameras but I figured I would ask those of you who are much more expierenced in this matter. Basically, I'm looking for a camera to do a variety of things: Short documentaries, films, consumer ads, filming locals bands for DVD production or short video trailers for web pages etc.

Can you please tell me the pro's/con's of these two camera's. I have pro audio gear and would like a camera to complement my post production studio. Do I need the features of the PD-170 or will the VX2100 suit my needs? Also, can someone explain the difference between the DVCAM and the Mini DV? Is this just a different tape format or is there a definitive difference in quality.

I'm sorry for such basic questions but that's why I'm here.

Thanks to all in advance.

Regards,

Mark Dalzell / AudioScapes
Las Vegas, NV


Brantel
User


Jul 30, 2004, 1:52 PM

Post #2 of 8 (2142 views)
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mdslammer
Novice

Jul 30, 2004, 3:53 PM

Post #3 of 8 (2132 views)
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Re: [Brantel] Sony PD170 vs. VX2100 [In reply to] Can't Post

Brian,

Thank you for your quick response and excellent advice. You did in a few minutes what the Sony "techs" failed to do for the past two days. I will investigate the PD170 thoroughly. Can you recommend any mail order companies with good prices and are reputable?

Thanks once again for you time.

Regards,

Mark Dalzell / AudioScapes
Las Vegas, NV
http://www.audioscapes.net


CJBianco
User


Jul 30, 2004, 3:59 PM

Post #4 of 8 (2129 views)
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Re: [mdslammer] Sony PD170 vs. VX2100 [In reply to] Can't Post

"Can you recommend any mail order companies with good prices and are reputable?"

The most reputable company seems to be B&H Photo Video, but I've also purchased recently from Butterfly Photo and was very happy. Butterfly usually has way better prices on cameras, but they'll try to sell you all kinds of add-ons. Just tell them you ONLY want the camera, and you'll get a good deal.

Chris


Sony PD150, Sony PDX10, Sennheiser ME66/67, AKG PR81, Bogen 3246/501, Bogen 755B/700RC2, Promax Steady Tracker, Varizoom VZ-Rock, Various Custimizations, FCPHD, DVDSP2, Toast Titanium 6, Swingers DVD (Widescreen)


Brantel
User


Jul 30, 2004, 4:05 PM

Post #5 of 8 (2126 views)
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mdslammer
Novice

Jul 30, 2004, 4:12 PM

Post #6 of 8 (2119 views)
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Re: [Brantel] Sony PD170 vs. VX2100 [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Chris and Brian,

Thanks for your suggestions. I will check out these sites. I'm familiar with B&H.

Regards,

Mark


Postal_Boy
Veteran


Jul 30, 2004, 6:44 PM

Post #7 of 8 (2109 views)
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Re: [mdslammer] Sony PD170 vs. VX2100 [In reply to] Can't Post

Ack...I'm going to say something very, very terrible.

DVX100a

Before everyone kills me (a PD-170 user), there are some valid "marketing" or "political" reasons to get a camera that shoots 24p, regardless of your opinion about the aesthetic qualities of it.

First, music video people are going to ask for it on a regular, if not almost always, basis, because it is the current and possibly future "trend".

Second, corporations are going to ask for the capability because someone told them that they should do it. Right or wrong, the capability could mean the difference between a signature on the bottom line or none.

Third, it will allow you to shoot in 60i when you want, or 24p when you don't want.

Fourth, if you are shooting "production" type of work, you should have a much more controlled environment - i/e Good Lighting. This means that the low-light performance of the Sony that works so well in "run and gun" situations is not as big of an issue.

One thing that Sony IS know for is durability, and I don't have any reports on the DVX100a's durability or reputation.

Ok...you can lash out at me now.
__________________________

PD-170, Dual athlon 2200+, 1gig ram,, Vegas, Combustion, Photoshop, dual monitor (ashamed of the video card, so I won't mention it), Samson wireless, and a couple of one-chippers (sony) just for the heck of it. - And an IRIVER


videobear
Veteran


Aug 5, 2004, 4:14 PM

Post #8 of 8 (2011 views)
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Re: [Postal_Boy] Sony PD170 vs. VX2100 [In reply to] Can't Post

Sony fans: No lashing of Postal Boy allowed!

The DVX-100A is an excellent camcorder, and should be on the short list of everyone looking in this price/quality range.

That's all I'll say on that score, since Postal covered the basic differences very well: The Sony excels in low light, and the Panny has progressive scan modes.

On mdslammer's other question, DV vs. DVCAM:
The two formats are IDENTICAL in video and audio quality. Identical. No difference.

Now the fine print.
The DVCAM format uses a 30% higher tape speed, so a one-hour DV cassette will only last for 40 minutes in DVCAM mode.
The adavantage of this higher tape speed is a lower data density on the tape. In turn, this leads to a greater resistance to digital dropouts. Sony also claims less tape stretch and greater S/N ratio for their DVCAM tape, which could result in greater durability if you do a lot of multi-pass editing, and could extend the shelf life of the recorded tape. This isn't generally a factor in the usual one-pass capture-then-edit NLE situation.

DVCAM uses something called "locked audio" in which the audio is associated with every single frame of video. The DV format doesn't do this, relying on the system clock to keep things in sync. At worst, DV's audio is never more than one field off, and usually much less than that. This is not generally a problem, but if you use a linear editing system (as opposed to the NLEs most of us have these days), it's possible to put together two DV clips where the audio doesn't quite cover the outgoing or the incoming video frame. What results is an audio "click" at the edit point. Note: the "unlocked audio" of the DV format has nothing to do with issues like audio drift, or audio that's noticeably out of sync with the video. These issues do occur, but they are due to other causes, usually mismatched settings between your camcorder and your NLE in the areas of audio sample rate or time code.

The other potential advantage of using DVCAM is the availability of rugged, flexible, professional DVCAM decks in the edit suite. If you have one of these $5,000 babies, you can kiss the problems of "his tape wouldn't play back on my camcorder" goodbye. The mini-DV format is very small, and tiny differences in tape transport alignments can make it difficult or impossible to play back a tape that was recorded on another machine. You may not run into this problem for years...or it could happen at any time. If you don't have a professional DVCAM deck sitting around, the usual workaround is to play the tape using the camera that recorded it, and capture to the hard drive or make a Firewire dub.




Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions