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Home: Video University Forums: Teaching Video Production:
High speed (fps) recording on DV Cam

X-Gerry
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Jul 18, 2003, 8:37 AM

Post #1 of 10 (2958 views)
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High speed (fps) recording on DV Cam	Can't Post

I'm looking for a DV camcorder that can shoot at high frames per second so that I can capture an extremely fast action sequence to slow it down frame by frame for analysis and processing. Does anyone have any clues as what product could do this for me.

X-Doug_Graham
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Jul 18, 2003, 2:50 PM

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Re: High speed (fps) recording on DV Cam	Can't Post

: This is traditionally done using high speed film cameras. There was an article two or three years back in Government Video magazine about a government lab that was using special video cameras to do the same thing. Maybe if you contacted the editor, Mark Pescatore, he could point you at the right back issue. Try mpescatore@uemedia.com
A quick web search on "high speed video camera" also turned up a bunch of links. Try the following:
http://www.cplab.com/
http://www.2020hindsight.com/
http://www.photron.com/index.asp
http://www.nacinc.com/
Regards,
Doug Graham

X-Terry_Stetler
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Jul 25, 2003, 3:03 AM

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Re: High speed (fps) recording on DV Cam [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nope. DV is limited to 25fps in PAL and 29.970fps in NTSC. The closest thing to a motion study you can do is to use capture software like Scenalyzer Live! to do time-lapse.
To do high frame rate motion studies you need a high speed camera, which will also require either an IEEE-1394 card or more likely a frame grabber board to interface to the computer. They typically capture a series of bitmaps (an "image sequence") and not video so you'll need LOTS of HDD space.
The cost is also NOT low for either mono or color models, but color is near rediculous.
100fps mono example: http://www.baslerweb.com/produkte/produkte_en_1455.php
500fps mono example: http://www.baslerweb.com/produkte/produkte_en_212.php
Terry
: I'm looking for a DV camcorder that can shoot at high frames per second so that I can capture an extremely fast action sequence to slow it down frame by frame for analysis and processing. Does anyone have any clues as what product could do this for me.

X-Gerry
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Jul 25, 2003, 12:36 PM

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Re: High speed (fps) recording on DV Cam [In reply to]	Can't Post

It seems that many people share that point of view. But the question here has nothing to do with PAL or NTSC playback specifications. Understanding that I can only get 29.970 fps playback, I still wish to record at a much higher rate. This will produce a slow motion effect while playing back at 29.970 fps. The JVC GR-DVL9500 introduced in 1999 supported high speed recording. The JVC GR-DVL9800 supported Hyper High Speed recording (120 fps) and pro slow playback (broadcast quality) features.
Unfortunately, these camcorders are discontinued. I'm looking for the next best possible solution.
Here is a link to the JVC website hilighting the above mentioned camcorders.

http://www.jvc.com/company/press.jsp?pressType=2&item=99

Any thoughts?
As ever,
Gerry Tessier

: Nope. DV is limited to 25fps in PAL and 29.970fps in NTSC. The closest thing to a motion study you can do is to use capture software like Scenalyzer Live! to do time-lapse.
: To do high frame rate motion studies you need a high speed camera, which will also require either an IEEE-1394 card or more likely a frame grabber board to interface to the computer. They typically capture a series of bitmaps (an "image sequence") and not video so you'll need LOTS of HDD space.
: The cost is also NOT low for either mono or color models, but color is near rediculous.
: 100fps mono example: http://www.baslerweb.com/produkte/produkte_en_1455.php
: 500fps mono example: http://www.baslerweb.com/produkte/produkte_en_212.php
: Terry
: : I'm looking for a DV camcorder that can shoot at high frames per second so that I can capture an extremely fast action sequence to slow it down frame by frame for analysis and processing. Does anyone have any clues as what product could do this for me.

X-Terry_Stetler
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Jul 25, 2003, 10:21 PM

Post #5 of 10 (2955 views)
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Re: High speed (fps) recording on DV Cam [In reply to]	Can't Post

Standard NTSC cams can only scan and output 29.970 fps video (PAL = 25fps) and you can't capture what isn't there. You can capture at SLOWER rates, as in time-lapse, but not faster ones.
This is why there are high speed cameras for motion analysis in the first place: they CAN scan at higher than video standard frame rates.
Doing so with standard cams would only give you a fraction of a full frames scanlines, this presuming the capture tool/hardware could even insert the necessary synch pulses & colorburst to even make them semi-usable "frames".
Terry

X-Charles_Krah
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Oct 8, 2003, 9:43 PM

Post #6 of 10 (2956 views)
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Re: High speed (fps) recording on DV Cam [In reply to]	Can't Post

He isn't saying it puts 120 FPS material on a mini DV tape, hyper-speed recording actually moves the tape through at a faster speed so ultimately your capturing 120 fps but playing back at 30 fps. The tape runs through the camera four times faster. If what you're saying is correct and it's not possible on prosumer equipment, then JVC is a big fat liar. But I think you misunderstood the meaning of capturing at 120 fps. On the tape to anyone it would be at 30 fps, but the subjects on screen will move four times slower whence the tape is played back(at normal speed).

X-Carlos_Berber
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Oct 24, 2003, 4:32 PM

Post #7 of 10 (2956 views)
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Re: High speed (fps) recording on DV Cam [In reply to]	Can't Post

: It seems that many people share that point of view. But the question here has nothing to do with PAL or NTSC playback specifications. Understanding that I can only get 29.970 fps playback, I still wish to record at a much higher rate. This will produce a slow motion effect while playing back at 29.970 fps. The JVC GR-DVL9500 introduced in 1999 supported high speed recording. The JVC GR-DVL9800 supported Hyper High Speed recording (120 fps) and pro slow playback (broadcast quality) features.
: Unfortunately, these camcorders are discontinued. I'm looking for the next best possible solution.
: Here is a link to the JVC website hilighting the above mentioned camcorders.
:
: http://www.jvc.com/company/press.jsp?pressType=2&item=99
:
: Any thoughts?
: As ever,
: Gerry Tessier
:
: : Nope. DV is limited to 25fps in PAL and 29.970fps in NTSC. The closest thing to a motion study you can do is to use capture software like Scenalyzer Live! to do time-lapse.
: : To do high frame rate motion studies you need a high speed camera, which will also require either an IEEE-1394 card or more likely a frame grabber board to interface to the computer. They typically capture a series of bitmaps (an "image sequence") and not video so you'll need LOTS of HDD space.
: : The cost is also NOT low for either mono or color models, but color is near rediculous.
: : 100fps mono example: http://www.baslerweb.com/produkte/produkte_en_1455.php
: : 500fps mono example: http://www.baslerweb.com/produkte/produkte_en_212.php
: : Terry
: : : I'm looking for a DV camcorder that can shoot at high frames per second so that I can capture an extremely fast action sequence to slow it down frame by frame for analysis and processing. Does anyone have any clues as what product could do this for me.
:carlos
: : : Found the perfect DV camcorder that records at high speeds and is not discontinued...the JVC GR-DVL9800U althought it might be in miniDV format but it will be the best switch you'll make since film.

X-Rob_Stowell
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Dec 16, 2003, 4:46 PM

Post #8 of 10 (2955 views)
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Re: High speed (fps) recording on DV Cam [In reply to]	Can't Post

: my understanding is the jvc camera gets a higher scan rate by using less pixels per scan, so you do lose resolution using the high-speed mode. You can get twice the frame rate on any camera using this method, by capturing- or creating- stills using a single FIELD- each frame has two fields, and if you deinterlace the video you then get (in PAL) 50 frames from 25, but with half the resolution.
we really need 100 + frame rates for some biomechnical motion studies, and are trying hard to get one of the jvc cameras- does anyone know of any sources? the resolution in this case is less important than the speed at which frames are scanned.

X-Charles_Krah
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Jan 4, 2004, 5:00 PM

Post #9 of 10 (2956 views)
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Re: High speed (fps) recording on DV Cam [In reply to]	Can't Post

What really interests me is the fact that we are surrounded by all of these digital still cameras capturing these beautiful large high resolution images with ccd chips as far as I know. TO somehow hardwire the thing to capture at a high fps(24 would be enough for me but slow mo couldn't hurt) to a hard drive or something... maybe a liquid cooling system and some ingenious architecture, but it seems like it could be done, imagine the result. Just a high-definition dream.

X-nazeer
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Jun 22, 2004, 6:05 AM

Post #10 of 10 (2958 views)
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Re: High speed (fps) recording on DV Cam [In reply to]	Can't Post

: Standard NTSC cams can only scan and output 29.970 fps video (PAL = 25fps) and you can't capture what isn't there. You can capture at SLOWER rates, as in time-lapse, but not faster ones.
: This is why there are high speed cameras for motion analysis in the first place: they CAN scan at higher than video standard frame rates.
: Doing so with standard cams would only give you a fraction of a full frames scanlines, this presuming the capture tool/hardware could even insert the necessary synch pulses & colorburst to even make them semi-usable "frames".
: Terry