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Home: Video University Forums: Teaching Video Production:
Using filters when shooting as opposed to editing

 

 


dansen
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Jan 16, 2006, 7:14 PM

Post #1 of 12 (4826 views)
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Using filters when shooting as opposed to editing Can't Post

Just a quick question for you people here with more knowledge and experience than I.

For some reason I'm thinking that shooting a film with filters and then maybe doing a little touch up is better than shooting a film or whatever without any filters and then getting the look you want when editing in Final Cut Pro or whatever it is that you use.

Surely adding filters to what you've shot in post production wouldn't be as good as actually shooting the film with real filters.

From your experience, does it really matter or is there a huge difference? If so, what are the differences?

I'd appreciate any feedback on this. Thanks.


DepModeFan
Novice

Jan 16, 2006, 10:51 PM

Post #2 of 12 (4814 views)
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Re: [dansen] Using filters when shooting as opposed to editing [In reply to] Can't Post

Not sure what you mean by "filters"...do you mean shooting using some sort of built in camera effect, like sepia tint, black and white, or solarization?
Personally, I always teach my students to shoot as high quality and pristine as possible. Get the best looking uneffected footage as you can and add any effects you may want later. Even if you decide that black & white would work for a specific scene...shoot in color anyway. If in post production you still want B&W you can modify it at that point...but at least you still have a choice...if it's shot in b&w then you're married to it and there's no going back. If you're using an NLE then you'll have all the options for modification in your software. I wish you could purchase consumer cameras like you can buy a car...with or w/out specific options. I'd drop the effects and digital zoom to save a few bucks.



dansen
User


Jan 16, 2006, 11:34 PM

Post #3 of 12 (4812 views)
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Re: [DepModeFan] Using filters when shooting as opposed to editing [In reply to] Can't Post

Black & White films, like say for example Schindler's List, are shot a certain way. They're (sets and actors) lit differently than you would light for colour filming conditions. Is this true for digital shooting.

So basically you'd shooting for colour and then just digitizing the colours to turn them to black and white. It doesn't seem natural to me for some reason.

I was talking about using Tobacco filters, ND filters, Polarizing filters etc.. Why use them at all when filming when you can just fiddle around with what you have in editing. The advantage being you can do what you like because you shot clean. If you shot with a Tobacco filter for instance, you'd have to stick with that. you could tweak it but you still could never get it back to normal. So what I'm asking is this: adding a tobacco filter in editing with an NLE -- will it look the same as if I shot it with an actual tobacco filter?

Can anybody tell me the pros and cons?


dansen
User


Jan 18, 2006, 9:19 PM

Post #4 of 12 (4768 views)
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Re: [dansen] Using filters when shooting as opposed to editing [In reply to] Can't Post

Ah, c'mon, someone pleae help me...


Stoney
User


Jan 19, 2006, 10:41 AM

Post #5 of 12 (4735 views)
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Re: [dansen] Using filters when shooting as opposed to editing [In reply to] Can't Post

That is a hard question to answer. Everything in production can and will effect something else, so here come those dreaded words..."it depends". It depends on lighting, the camera, the NLE, the power of the computer running the NLE, how much time and or money the editer and videographer have, how much experience they have, etc., etc., etc. For example, using an ND filter. You use it to cut down the amount of light, right. Well if you are using it because you are outside in bright sunlight or you are using it to make your DOF more shallow, that is two different things that are much harder to fix or duplicate in post. Some filters can be duplicated and tweaked easy in post, while others can't. Do you have the patience to tweak, render, tweak, render, to get the shot to look exactly like you want, or would you rather shoot it the way you want and do little adjustments in post? I usually don't mess with many filters, but I would think that something like a polarizing filter would be really hard to duplicate it's effects in post, just like an ND filter. I agree that once you shoot with a certain filter, you can never get that clean original footage back again, but there are certain things that are much harder to reproduce in post. So maybe if your not sure, why not shoot it both ways. That way you cover all your bases. Good luck.
Stoney
LE 6.1, DVC-80, GL-1 & TRV900


AndrewMSV
Veteran


Jan 22, 2006, 5:46 AM

Post #6 of 12 (4661 views)
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Re: [dansen] Using filters when shooting as opposed to editing [In reply to] Can't Post

in hollywood film production, there is no such thing as white balance. Every color tint (warm glows for hot days, cool tints for cold weather, etc) you see was likely shot with lens filters to achieve the color temperature the director wanted.
These days, some of that is probably done digitally in post, but if you have filters to use, use them! just know that it will be harder to get back to a normal white balance in post than it is to take 'normal' footage and tint it with filters in post.

Cheers!


Andrew
m o r n i n g__s t a r__v i d e o g r a p h y
sf chapter, vu california crew
I think we should turn that whole region into one shiny piece of radioactive glass. - CartoonChris




dansen
User


Jan 22, 2006, 8:28 PM

Post #7 of 12 (4635 views)
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Re: [AndrewMSV] Using filters when shooting as opposed to editing [In reply to] Can't Post

I just wanted to know is there a different look when using filters as opposed to using its digital twin - the digitally applied filter. same goal - but has it the same look? does it depend on what filter you're talking about? if so, which one(s)?


videobear
Veteran


Jan 22, 2006, 8:36 PM

Post #8 of 12 (4637 views)
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Re: [dansen] Using filters when shooting as opposed to editing [In reply to] Can't Post

Generally, "real" filters will give a somewhat different appearance than software filter effects. But it depends on the software, and on the effect.




Regards,
Doug Graham
Panda Productions


AndrewMSV
Veteran


Jan 23, 2006, 6:09 AM

Post #9 of 12 (4615 views)
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Re: [dansen] Using filters when shooting as opposed to editing [In reply to] Can't Post

This is a pretty open-ended question which Doug partially answered. It really all just depends on what filters you are talking about.
If you are just trying to get skin tones to look warmer, I wouldn't buy a filter just for that. That's a pretty expensive way to do something you can do with color correction in your NLE.

But if you are trying to enrichen the colors of a forest on an overcast day, then yes, a neutral density filter would be better for capturing good footage than using an NLE to boost contrast and saturation in post.

What is the exact look you are going for? or is your question more of a general question?

Cheers!


Andrew
m o r n i n g__s t a r__v i d e o g r a p h y
sf chapter, vu california crew
I think we should turn that whole region into one shiny piece of radioactive glass. - CartoonChris




J-Fly
Novice

Apr 23, 2006, 1:19 PM

Post #10 of 12 (4205 views)
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Re: [dansen] Using filters when shooting as opposed to editing [In reply to] Can't Post

i know its an old thread and a weak answer, but i think its better to shoot normal and do all your work on it later, if for no other reason than on the way back to your computer you may think of a better effect so its best not to lock yourself into a certain path prematurely.


Postal_Boy
Veteran


Apr 24, 2006, 4:37 PM

Post #11 of 12 (4180 views)
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Re: [J-Fly] Using filters when shooting as opposed to editing [In reply to] Can't Post

My 2 cents says this: If you use a filter when you shoot, you modify the original recorded material. If you use a filter after, you are modiFYING the originally recorded material.

This can be looked at in 2 ways:

If it is a bright, hazy day, then a polarizer can filter out the "haze" some and give you a more blue sky. If you record the hazy sky, your post CANNOT bring the blue back.

So, my answer would be - if you need an ND filter (graduated or other) to get the proper light INTO the camera, you need to use it on the camera.

One thing to remember - you cannot manipulate in post information that was not recorded. Use filters on the camera to get the most usable material on tape. Then you can color correct/manipulate it in post later. If everything is within adjustable levels then all post does is maniplate the values of color/hue/brightness levels. But if your "blue" is "gray", then you can only adjust the gray, and if your faces are washed out white, then you can't bring them back.

As my music instructor once said - record the cleanest, most usable material possible when you start. Then you can add the distortion, choris, etc. afterwards to your liking. But if you record the mega-crunch distortion on your first run then you are stuck with it.
__________________________

PD-170, Dual athlon 2200+, 1gig ram,, Vegas, Combustion, Photoshop, dual monitor (ashamed of the video card, so I won't mention it), Samson wireless, and a couple of one-chippers (sony) just for the heck of it. - And an IRIVER


defocus
User


May 8, 2006, 8:27 PM

Post #12 of 12 (4006 views)
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Re: [dansen] Using filters when shooting as opposed to editing [In reply to] Can't Post

I prefer post-production filters for the flexibility.

The effects of lens filters like pro-mist vary depending on the lens focal length, and can't always be relied upon to give consistent results.

This is another reason why I don't prefer to use warm cards, in anything other than controlled shooting conditions.



thirteen years old and one bad kitty