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Home: Video University Forums: Wedding & Event Videography:
ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS 04/02 update

 

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glimmer
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Mar 15, 2008, 10:06 PM

Post #1 of 53 (2039 views)
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ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS 04/02 update Can't Post

For everyone who owns the Z7U....

I need you to check the following:

1>Auto focus
>>>How long does it take to focus, regardless of zoom level? Is it locked on or does it like searching?

2>With the lens in Servo mode (switch is in the front bottom left), do the following:
a. Zoom into something, regardless of what, but use the actual ring (holding onto the little knob)
b. Let the camera focus and then just tap the knob.
c. Does the image shift / move at all?
*. It appears that the lens is very loose and this issue, while Sony might say it's normal, would totally screw up certain shots, in that the slightest touch changes the view by about 1/32nd of an inch based on the LCD screen.



If you don't own this camera, do not post. I need to get a list of anyone with this issue ASAP.

PM or call me w/ any questions.


------
03/17 Monday - UPDATE

This issue was just confirmed by Sony as not being normal. Some cameras have a tight mechanism, others are loose and have play to them.

So...this is what needs to be done at this point...

Call Sony at 1-800-883-6817

Follow the prompts, mention the issue, and have it documented, as well as requesting a follow-up call and what you would like in terms of it being fixed.

They have confirmed that this should not be happening, so now it's just a matter of getting them to do something.

---

03/21 UPDATE

Here's another fun issue that I've now seen myself and others have been experiencing...

Film several short clips with the CF device and the beginning few frames will appear jagged or another color for some reason, and upon stopping recordation, you will lose part of the end of whatever is filmed. Some files cannot be brought into Premiere, either.

It's really disappointing that these issues are common throughout EVERY camera and nothing is being done about it yet...I'm supposed to be getting a call this coming week so we'll see what happens, but everyone who owns these cameras really needs to call Sony and make a case. Otherwise, nothing will get done.


---

03/24 UPDATE

Oh, if only everyone knew how many hours I've spent on the phone....ridiculous. Here's the story for those that want something done about this...

>You MUST MUST MUST call Sony and report the issues if it's affecting your cameras. They didn't have enough calls to warrant a mass repair / recall as of last Friday and for all of those who own the cameras that ARE experiencing any of these issues, it's quite foolish not to make it known.

>Will have an answer from Sony mfg (from Japan) sometime today or tomorrow.

>Current status - Sony is gathering info to do a repair/recall/fix on some models based on resellers and are currently trying to determine if it was certain batches or all cameras. If a recall does take place, S/H will be covered by Josh/Cindy. For specs, either contact one of them or myself.

>Other fun issues - rolling-shutter - I think it's blown out of proportion A LOT but it's horrible when it happens - spoke w/ a Sony rep last Friday about this, too.....we'll see what happens.

---

03/27 Update

>I've put more calls in with Sony and nothing has transpired. Not sure what's going on, but I was told that not enough people have stated anything, but I'll see if anything happens on Friday. It's just disheartening with some of this....

---

03/31 Update

>Sony's deciding on what to do with all of the issues....those who purchased teh camera from Josh/VSA will have any applicable shipping charges covered. Confirmed issues are auto-focus (or lack thereof), play in the lens in servo mode, and invalid video files when recording to CF media.


---

04.01 Update

Woohoo!!! Getting somewhere! Just spoke with a Sony rep and it's looking good! Channels are being contacted and Sony is in contact with Carl Zeiss right now. I'm supposed to get a call today or tomorrow with an update on what should be taking place. Issues, as noted, are consistent with every camera. Email/call/PM with questions.


---

04.02 Update

Had a conference call this afternoon with two Sony reps. It was a very good call and quite decent. Here's the story based on the initial issues being noted.

CF Recordation issues - pending. They haven't been able to duplicate it themselves and I'm hoping to do it again. I'm trying to see if I can get a Sony CF card for testing purposes. If anyone, who has had the invalid media problem, has any problematic files, I need them - call/post/PM me as soon as possible.

Auto Focus - while we may not be too thrillled with it, it's the lens and is normal - no problems or issues found. It's just a slow lens that likes to hunt; so film accordingly.

Lens Play in Servo Mode - This was initially brought up by another Z7U owner with regards to the assumption of a lens problem based on the 1/4" extra movement in the zoom ring when in servo mode. I looked at other manual lenses and noticed slight play in them as well. Based on these findings, as well as talking with Sony, the lens play is to avoid overcranking the ring, breaking and/or misaligning the internal gears.

Long story short....the issues that were mentioned and of a concern are, at present, normal operations of the cameras and are not defects.

If anyone is unhappy with this please contact me or your reseller for more information as to what alternatives might be.

Regarding the Rolling Shutter - it's normal based on CMOS technology and has nothing to do with camera functionality.

If you have any additional questions please let me know.


(This post was edited by glimmer on Apr 2, 2008, 6:11 PM)


brucecleveland
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Mar 16, 2008, 9:06 AM

Post #2 of 53 (1931 views)
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Re: [glimmer] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post

There is a small bit of play when moving the focus knob up or down in servo mode, but once you switch from servo to manual it is smooth. I did what you asked in servo mode, and the only movement I see is from the play I am talking about. Other than that I am seeing nothing else troublesome, but I think in servo mode using the focus ring, this small bit of play may be a problem.

Bruce
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."


glimmer
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Mar 16, 2008, 9:27 AM

Post #3 of 53 (1922 views)
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Re: [brucecleveland] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, that's what I'm referring to. In servo mode, there shouldn't be any play with a lens as it's based on movement via the internal gears. I talked to Josh on Saturday about this and have a call into one of the Sony tech guys I know. We'll see what happens, but I do think this should be fixed.


brucecleveland
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Mar 16, 2008, 9:29 AM

Post #4 of 53 (1921 views)
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Re: [glimmer] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes that is not good when in servo mode, I agree. Please let us know what you find out.
That is one of the first things I noticed when I first got the camera, but is it possible that it should be in manual mode if you are going to use the ring? I bet that is what Sony is going to say about it.

Bruce
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."

(This post was edited by brucecleveland on Mar 16, 2008, 10:28 AM)


RenderLight
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Mar 16, 2008, 1:38 PM

Post #5 of 53 (1862 views)
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Re: [brucecleveland] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Bruce,

My unit I just recieved has it. I noticed it right away.

Here is the problem, the lens is a full manual lens, which of course means Sony is well aware that many will reach for the lens and adjust it as needed. You can have the Iris and focus in full manual while still having the zoom in "servo". So when you reach for the iris and your finger just slightly touches the zoom ring, the image jumps in/out whatever direction you happen to hit the ring. Shot lost!

This is a 100% defect in the lens build. It assentially makes the whole manual operation very difficult since you will even under the most careful watch hit or rub the zoom ring when reaching for focus or iris.

This is a huge blunder in my opinion. In fact, it will most likely be what forces me to choose another camera.

Paul


brucecleveland
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Mar 16, 2008, 1:53 PM

Post #6 of 53 (1850 views)
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Re: [RenderLight] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hey Bruce,

My unit I just recieved has it. I noticed it right away.

Here is the problem, the lens is a full manual lens, which of course means Sony is well aware that many will reach for the lens and adjust it as needed. You can have the Iris and focus in full manual while still having the zoom in "servo". So when you reach for the iris and your finger just slightly touches the zoom ring, the image jumps in/out whatever direction you happen to hit the ring. Shot lost!

This is a 100% defect in the lens build. It assentially makes the whole manual operation very difficult since you will even under the most careful watch hit or rub the zoom ring when reaching for focus or iris.

This is a huge blunder in my opinion. In fact, it will most likely be what forces me to choose another camera.

Paul


But even if it did not have this problem you could still bump the zoom ring and get some jumping. To me it just doesn't feel like the zoom ring should be used in the servo mode. It almost feels forced, where if you put in the manual mode it is smooth.

Bruce
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."


RenderLight
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Mar 16, 2008, 2:14 PM

Post #7 of 53 (1842 views)
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Re: [brucecleveland] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Bruce,

I'm not sure what you mean by forced? When in servo it is "engaged" and the camera is controlling the zoom, but since it is a full manual lens it can be "disengaged" and it moves completely free of any resistance.

The problem here is that once it is engaged it should not have any play at all. I have never felt any lens have this type of play regardless of price or for what use, still photography or video.

I am not an expert user of manual lenses, but I can imagine that since the iris ring blends in to the lens and you have a hard time feeling for it it is obvious to me that I will grab the zoom ring more then expected. Maybe not grab it hard enough to turn it, but at least getting my fingers on it until I realize it is the wrong ring, by then it is too late.

This on top of all the times I just happen to rub against it as I am using the other rings makes it quite the flaw in my opinion.

It may never be an issue for many, for others this could make the camera useless to them. On my end, I can't wait months to figure out how much it will get in my way since I have a limited time to return it as a defect. It's in my way right now and it bothers me that a $6000 camera has a lens with that level of play it the lens gears. It has to be a defect, I hope it's not a designed in tolerance! That would be silly to say the least.

Paul


brucecleveland
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Mar 16, 2008, 2:38 PM

Post #8 of 53 (1828 views)
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In Reply To
Hey Bruce,

I'm not sure what you mean by forced? When in servo it is "engaged" and the camera is controlling the zoom, but since it is a full manual lens it can be "disengaged" and it moves completely free of any resistance.

The problem here is that once it is engaged it should not have any play at all. I have never felt any lens have this type of play regardless of price or for what use, still photography or video.

I am not an expert user of manual lenses, but I can imagine that since the iris ring blends in to the lens and you have a hard time feeling for it it is obvious to me that I will grab the zoom ring more then expected. Maybe not grab it hard enough to turn it, but at least getting my fingers on it until I realize it is the wrong ring, by then it is too late.

This on top of all the times I just happen to rub against it as I am using the other rings makes it quite the flaw in my opinion.

It may never be an issue for many, for others this could make the camera useless to them. On my end, I can't wait months to figure out how much it will get in my way since I have a limited time to return it as a defect. It's in my way right now and it bothers me that a $6000 camera has a lens with that level of play it the lens gears. It has to be a defect, I hope it's not a designed in tolerance! That would be silly to say the least.

Paul


By forced I mean that it doesn't seem like in the servo mode the ring should be moved manually. Just seems like we should not be adjusting that ring in the servo mode, but then, as you say, if it gets bumped in the servo mode, the image is going to move. I am not sure if this is going to be a problem with me or not yet. I did shoot an hour and a half of video last week and did not really notice that this was a problem, but it may be something down the line when I do a full day wedding, that I may notice it more. I think really though that this camera is designed to be a manual control camera and although we can use auto contlrols, if we truly have have everything in manual, the zoom would also be controlled manually as well, and the problem we are talking about would no longer be a problem. Not sure if I am making any sense or not. Let me know. I am not provoking an argument, but rather trying to figure this thing out.

Bruce
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."


RenderLight
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Mar 16, 2008, 2:57 PM

Post #9 of 53 (1819 views)
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Re: [brucecleveland] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh, please don't take me wrong either. I am truly trying to determne the extent of this problem. I am not in any way arguing the idea of this issue, we are just trying to determine if everyone is having the same issue. It may or may not ever be a problem for some, but it should be at least noted as a defect in design not an intentional tollerance left in as acceptable.

It is true that in servo mode you should not usually be trying to zoom in manually, even though I did this with no problem on my Canon I believe I could because the lens was not full manual like the Sony. But if for some reason yuo do hit the ring while in servo, it is logocal to assume the gears would be tight enough to resist and have zero play in either direction.

Would you agree with that basic expectation?

But like I said, no arguing on this issue, I have to return this cam right away and I have little time to determine the extent of this issue for myself.

Paul


brucecleveland
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Mar 16, 2008, 3:28 PM

Post #10 of 53 (1801 views)
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In Reply To
Oh, please don't take me wrong either. I am truly trying to determne the extent of this problem. I am not in any way arguing the idea of this issue, we are just trying to determine if everyone is having the same issue. It may or may not ever be a problem for some, but it should be at least noted as a defect in design not an intentional tollerance left in as acceptable.

It is true that in servo mode you should not usually be trying to zoom in manually, even though I did this with no problem on my Canon I believe I could because the lens was not full manual like the Sony. But if for some reason yuo do hit the ring while in servo, it is logocal to assume the gears would be tight enough to resist and have zero play in either direction.

Would you agree with that basic expectation?

But like I said, no arguing on this issue, I have to return this cam right away and I have little time to determine the extent of this issue for myself.

Paul


Paul I totally understand your concerns about this issue. I have had my camera for over a month now, so it is not an option for me to send it back. If it was an option, I am not sure what I would do. While it is hard to believe they would have this issue on a camera that expensive, I am still not sure if it is even going to be a problem for me. It will be interesting to see what other users feel. Good luck.

Bruce
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."


Adam Mancini
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Mar 16, 2008, 5:05 PM

Post #11 of 53 (1750 views)
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Re: [glimmer] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Will it take another lens? What size will it take?


RenderLight
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Mar 16, 2008, 6:52 PM

Post #12 of 53 (1725 views)
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Re: [Adam Mancini] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post

It was set-up like any other camera that has a lens mount for lens changes. It does take other lenses. I am not sure yet which ones fit it but yes.

Of course if everyone could just buy the body for $2500.00 less and add the lens of choice that would be popular I am sure.

But for now, this one comes with the camera, and I won't be able to afford any new lens for a long time, so that idea is a no-go for me right now.

I mean, if I have to spend that much money to get a good lens I might as well just get the EX1.

Paul


bruceo
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Mar 16, 2008, 9:21 PM

Post #13 of 53 (1691 views)
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In Reply To


I mean, if I have to spend that much money to get a good lens I might as well just get the EX1.


And then you would have a lens that has a vignetting problem


First Sight Pictures



bruceo
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Mar 16, 2008, 9:36 PM

Post #14 of 53 (1686 views)
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Re: [glimmer] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the auto focus is an issue, but luckily I never use auto focus. I am not understanding the servo issue. If the handle is engaged to the servo and you tap the knob, wouldn't you expect a response? I actually like that the servo mode allows you to use the zoom handle, that's just like the FX1/Z1 (although they did have a switch allowing you to choose between rocker and ring) I personally rarely use the rocker and I love the full manual zoom, but I also like to use the zoom ring with the servo engaged because of the resistance and the consistency of the servo motor. However I am a bit frustrated that the Z1 zoom/focus servo is MUCH slower than the FX1/Z1. The Z1's servo is so fast you can almost do snap zooms, the Z7 has got to be 3-4 times slower.


First Sight Pictures



glimmer
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Mar 16, 2008, 10:50 PM

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In Reply To
I think the auto focus is an issue, but luckily I never use auto focus. I am not understanding the servo issue. If the handle is engaged to the servo and you tap the knob, wouldn't you expect a response? I actually like that the servo mode allows you to use the zoom handle, that's just like the FX1/Z1 (although they did have a switch allowing you to choose between rocker and ring) I personally rarely use the rocker and I love the full manual zoom, but I also like to use the zoom ring with the servo engaged because of the resistance and the consistency of the servo motor. However I am a bit frustrated that the Z1 zoom/focus servo is MUCH slower than the FX1/Z1. The Z1's servo is so fast you can almost do snap zooms, the Z7 has got to be 3-4 times slower.



The lens itself works fine, but what the implication is pertains to the suttle movement of the zoom ring when in servo mode. Given that it's controlled by the internal motor, it should be much tighter than what it appears to be, and this is what I was stating. When you move the zoom ring in servo mode, it has a slight play to it, which, if inadvertently touched, can screw up a shot. Try it, you'll see....not good. And as for the auto focus, ugh.


RenderLight
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Mar 16, 2008, 10:50 PM

Post #16 of 53 (1659 views)
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Re: [bruceo] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Bruce,

There is a difference between the zoom ring moving because you turned it or hit it hard enough in either direction to get it to spin, and the lens having physical play it the gears allowing it to wiggle back and fourth in a loose manner.

I guess we will see Sony's response in time. Hopefully they do the right thing for everyone. If not, Canon and/or Panasonic will come out with something that trumps them on ever level and it will be Sony's fault for not addressing the issue.

In the mean time, I will have to send this one back in case they deem this "normal" so they don't have to replace a thousand lenses at no charge. I can't take the chance it will not be resolved. I don't have even a dollar to waste at this point.

Only time will tell,

Paul


(This post was edited by RenderLight on Mar 16, 2008, 10:51 PM)


glimmer
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Mar 16, 2008, 11:16 PM

Post #17 of 53 (1650 views)
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Re: [RenderLight] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Give me a call this week and let me know what happens. I've got a call in to a Sony tech and spoke with Josh on Saturday, and I'll be calling Sony directly on Monday morning.


glimmer
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Mar 17, 2008, 9:45 AM

Post #18 of 53 (1591 views)
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Re: [glimmer] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post

updated original post...


bruceo
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Mar 17, 2008, 10:26 AM

Post #19 of 53 (1573 views)
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Re: [glimmer] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know if I have this issue. I've shot about 12 hours so far on both Z7s that I have and the only thing I have noticed that is different is that one of them has a much tighter focus ring. However I used the zoom ring with servo engaged this past weekend for a dance performance and did not notice any play.


First Sight Pictures



RenderLight
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Mar 17, 2008, 11:21 AM

Post #20 of 53 (1553 views)
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Re: [bruceo] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Bruce,

I think from your first post, you are indeed having the same issue. The "play" while in servo mode you described is accurate and matches what we are seeing.

I am glad to see Sony is saying it is not normal.

paul


brucecleveland
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Mar 17, 2008, 11:27 AM

Post #21 of 53 (1551 views)
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Re: [glimmer] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS 03/17 update [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
For everyone who owns the Z7U....

I need you to check the following:

1>Auto focus
>>>How long does it take to focus, regardless of zoom level? Is it locked on or does it like searching?

2>With the lens in Servo mode (switch is in the front bottom left), do the following:
a. Zoom into something, regardless of what, but use the actual ring (holding onto the little knob)
b. Let the camera focus and then just tap the knob.
c. Does the image shift / move at all?
*. It appears that the lens is very loose and this issue, while Sony might say it's normal, would totally screw up certain shots, in that the slightest touch changes the view by about 1/32nd of an inch based on the LCD screen.



If you don't own this camera, do not post. I need to get a list of anyone with this issue ASAP.

PM or call me w/ any questions.


------
03/17 Monday - UPDATE

This issue was just confirmed by Sony as not being normal. Some cameras have a tight mechanism, others are loose and have play to them.

So...this is what needs to be done at this point...

Call Sony at 1-800-883-6817

Follow the prompts, mention the issue, and have it documented, as well as requesting a follow-up call and what you would like in terms of it being fixed.

They have confirmed that this should not be happening, so now it's just a matter of getting them to do something.


Thanks Marshall. Been trying to call the number for an hour now, but it has been busy. I will keep trying. Thanks for digging into this issue.

Bruce
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."


brucecleveland
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Mar 17, 2008, 11:41 AM

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In Reply To
Hi Bruce,

I think from your first post, you are indeed having the same issue. The "play" while in servo mode you described is accurate and matches what we are seeing.

I am glad to see Sony is saying it is not normal.

paul


Yes I do have the same issue. Now I am sitting on hold for the last 10 minutes for Sony tech.

Bruce
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."


brucecleveland
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Mar 17, 2008, 11:47 AM

Post #23 of 53 (1539 views)
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Re: [brucecleveland] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS [In reply to] Can't Post

I have just spoken to Sony and they said the camera will have to be sent in for repair.

Bruce
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."


Sandy B
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Mar 18, 2008, 11:25 PM

Post #24 of 53 (1368 views)
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Re: [glimmer] ATTENTION TO ALL SONY Z7U OWNERS 03/17 update [In reply to] Can't Post

Just checked my Z7 and it does jump if you touch the little zoom knob when the lens is in servo mode. I will need to check the S270 once the battery(s) get delivered.

I will make my Sony call tomorrow. Thanks for posting this topic and keeping us aware of your findings.

Twitter - Sandy Buller
SSPBLOG





brucecleveland
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Mar 19, 2008, 1:47 PM

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In Reply To
Just checked my Z7 and it does jump if you touch the little zoom knob when the lens is in servo mode. I will need to check the S270 once the battery(s) get delivered.

I will make my Sony call tomorrow. Thanks for posting this topic and keeping us aware of your findings.


Sandy did you get this camera through the special deal that Josh Philips offered? If you did, he is working on a resolution and you may want to give him a call and let him know you also have the issue.

Bruce
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."

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