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Home: Video University Forums: Wedding & Event Videography:
Any EX1 owners

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AbracadabraTV
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Feb 2, 2008, 12:15 PM

Post #1 of 68 (2105 views)
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Any EX1 owners	Can't Post

How have you liked the EX1 so far. How many cards and batteries have you purchased for a typical wedding event? Do you find the lens wide enough without and WA adapter? Have you been able to compare the picture in 25mbs to a Z1U? Would you reccomend a buy?
Best, Craig

(This post was edited by AbracadabraTV on Feb 2, 2008, 12:16 PM)

ChadC
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Feb 2, 2008, 5:58 PM

Post #2 of 68 (2061 views)
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Re: [AbracadabraTV] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

I cant tell you yet, but I just purchased 2 of them and will be using them for the first time next Saturday. Stay tuned.

ChadC

brucecleveland
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Feb 2, 2008, 7:06 PM

Post #3 of 68 (2045 views)
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Re: [AbracadabraTV] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

Craig are you still thinking about either the ex1 or z1?

Bruce
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."

glimmer
Veteran

Feb 2, 2008, 8:04 PM

Post #4 of 68 (2036 views)
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Re: [AbracadabraTV] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

While I don't own the EX as I've cancelled all of my preorders, I have since ordered a bunch of the Z7U's to replace my arsenal of Z/V cameras. The reason for this was primarily because of the cost of ownership in that I would need new batteries, very expensive media, and a separate lanc controller which I must have for jib work. Even though the camera does full 1920 format, initial test comparison have indicated that because of the mpeg compression, there's very little, if any noticeable difference, between that and the hdv size/quality. I was actually surprised by this, but since I don't own one, I'm only going by what I have read and been told. As far as cards, I was figuring about 5-6 16-G cards per wedding as each one will do about 50 minutes at full. That being a mere $4K for those cards, I've ordered 9 16G CF cards for my Z7U's and, after rebate, it cost me a whopping $500 and change. Not bad.

Roscoe_Video
User

Feb 3, 2008, 3:02 AM

Post #5 of 68 (1996 views)
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Re: [AbracadabraTV] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

How have you liked the EX1 so far.
More complicated than a PD150, similar to shoulder mounts. Average VF, good LCD. Poor one-handed balance. Tons of flexibility.
A tad heavy.

How many cards and batteries have you purchased for a typical wedding event?
2x8GB + 2x16GB cards, at HDV quality gives 4 hours, 1xBPu30 + 2xBPU-60. 60's are heavy, colleagues have gone the multiple 30 route. But they're not real men.

Do you find the lens wide enough without and WA adapter?
Slightly narrower than PD150 wth a Canon wd-58 lens. From use, I cancelled my order for WA and transferred the dough to another 16GB card.

Have you been able to compare the picture in 25mbs to a Z1U?
Haven't used a Z1.

Would you reccomend a buy?
It suits my needs.

(This post was edited by Roscoe_Video on Feb 3, 2008, 6:09 AM)

AbracadabraTV
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Feb 3, 2008, 11:18 AM

Post #6 of 68 (1962 views)
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Re: [brucecleveland] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Bruce..
Yes, I have decided to purchase the EX1. There are several reasons.
I do quite a bit of shooting for a German Bio company and they require their footage shot in PAL. They have accepted my Z1U footage, but would have preferred it shot in DigiBeta but those cameras on the East coast are not easily rented... there is one in NYC. I'm in Key West. The EX1 will provide a better image that the Z7U. Perhaps even better than the DigiBeta.
From a purely PR factor...I'll have a better story for a Press Release with the CineAlta than the Z7U even if the differences might appear minimal to an untrained eye.
Another reason I'm going with it is this review by Adam Wilt

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/awilt/story/review_sony_pmw_ex1_1_2_3_cmos_hd_camcorder/

I have quite a bit of respect for his shoot-outs in the past and his unbiased reviews.
I realize that the cost for the memory will be more, but I really wish to purchase a camera that I will be able to use for many years ahead and I believe that the XDcam format is the new BetaCam network industry standard. HDV being more along the lines of the older SVHS perhaps.
I'm gathering the facts right now, but I will purchase it this month from B&H along with several cards. I need to shoot a green screen project late in the month for a company in England and it also needs to be in PAL. I believe the key quality will be much better than my Z1U could have provided.
Best, Craig

Daniel
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Feb 3, 2008, 1:27 PM

Post #7 of 68 (1939 views)
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Re: [AbracadabraTV] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

Craig, after 4 weddings, I am sold on the EX1. If you asked me 3 weddings ago, I would have had a different opinion. Crazy

I just needed to get used to it i guess.

I have 2 8GB cards both free from Sony and a $900 16GB card. I will be picking up another 16GB soon but so far the workflow has been relatively smooth and I have done SDEs at every single one of these 4 weddings.

The lens is definitely wide enough for most applications,but being a lover of extreme wides, i will be purchasing a FE lens in March when Century comes out with one.

I have not shot in 25Mps mode at all so i cant tell you.

"Happiness is beating your good friend by one stroke with a birdie on the 18th hole" Me

Daniel
Veteran

Feb 3, 2008, 1:40 PM

Post #8 of 68 (1936 views)
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Re: [glimmer] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

A bunch? How much is a bunch?

Cost of ownership argument has been hashed out with you and others several times. There is NO difference in cost of ownership long term, and as I have shown you before, SxS will actually be CHEAPER in long run as opposed to tape/CF cards.

Quote

Even though the camera does full 1920 format, initial test comparison have indicated that because of the mpeg compression, there's very little, if any noticeable difference, between that and the hdv size/quality. I was actually surprised by this, but since I don't own one, I'm only going by what I have read and been told.

Quote

Are you talking full rez 35mps vs HDV?

There is a VERY noticable difference between my V1s and the EX as seen in this recent SDE:

http://dvartistry.blogspot.com/

I had to put a lot of the V1 clips (groom prep) in BW to mask the difference ..and this is downrezzed. You should see the difference in FULL rez.

Quote

As far as cards, I was figuring about 5-6 16-G cards per wedding as each one will do about 50 minutes at full. That being a mere $4K for those cards, I've ordered 9 16G CF cards for my Z7U's and, after rebate, it cost me a whopping $500 and change. Not bad.

Quote

My 4 weddings with 2 8GB and 1 16GB cards says your 5-6 16 GB cards is way overkill.

Again, I will purchase one more $900 card which would bring my total investment to $1800 which could last me years without having to buy tape.

Don't get me wrong, Z7 looks like a great cam, and if you dont need to instant import that SxS affords you like i do, its probably a better cam for you.

But lets be accurate. Don't create a strawman of the EX1 so it makes your bunch of Z7s purchase look better.

"Happiness is beating your good friend by one stroke with a birdie on the 18th hole" Me

glimmer
Veteran

Feb 3, 2008, 6:36 PM

Post #9 of 68 (1904 views)
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Re: [Daniel] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

The cost of ownership based on the number of cameras I use, need, maintain, and the associated accessories, prompt the reasoning to go the route of the Z7U, at least for now. I still want an EX1, but am going to wait a bit longer. For the cost of ownership over the longrun, of course it changes, as with everything. In terms of the number of cameras, I am replacing 3 Z1U's and 2 V1U's. The initial investment in this case is the cameras and CF cards, and I'll worry about other things when available. Comparing that to the EX1, which I would prefer in so many ways, I would need the cameras, multiple cards, new batteries, etc. If averaging a 50min runtime on a 16G card, SxS or CF, ~$100 to $900 x 9 cards is one hell of a difference. I can't see spending $8,000 on flash cards at this present moment. With regards to the comparison of SxS being cheaper than CF over time, yeah, perhaps, but who knows. It's a shame nothing holds its value anymore in this techno-world.

Regarding the comparisons between 35mps/25mps / hd/hdv, I'm stating this, as I mentioned, from what I had read on other forum postings as well as what I was told by a highly recognized company (hint - at 4EG convention) as well as one of the Sony reps there....since I can't compare anything directly, I'm repeating what I found out, not what I've seen.

I'm not one-upping the Z7U over the EX1 as they're very different cameras. I state and repeat what I know, have learned, and been told, and ultimately, having used the EX1 a few times while playing around with it, it's a fantastic camera. But, based on some currently missing features that I need, the total costs, and comparing that to the Z7U, the latter of the two make the most sense at the present time. I'm not negating one over the other, and I don't see how anyone can, as it's not even available yet.

Timothy Harry
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Feb 4, 2008, 8:08 PM

Post #10 of 68 (1846 views)
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Re: [glimmer] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

as someone that exclusively uses solid state/hard drive media although not SxS, I will say it is nce not making my once a month $100 tape orders to the tape company. Even at 900 bucks a pop my P2 cards have been slowly paying for themselves. I have no need to keep a clients source footage on a commercial and on average I shoot 2-3 a week, It is really nice being able to do the shoot and edit all in 1 day by using the memory management stuff to delete the bad takes as they happen instead of having to wade through the BS in post. I come back with on average 5 minutes of footage for a 30 second spot instead of 30-60 minutes due to clients fumbling their words and redoing the section. I really enjoy the workflow, and it saves a ton of time too.

Tim Harry

Bandwagon Media
Odessa, TX

"I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job."

Joel
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Feb 4, 2008, 8:41 PM

Post #11 of 68 (1838 views)
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Re: [Daniel] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Z7 looks like a great cam, and if you dont need to instant import that SxS affords you like i do, its probably a better cam for you.

Instant import? I was told that you can edit straight off of a CF reader - the card is seen as an external disk. The FW 400/800 CF readers are getting nearly 40 MB/sec transfer and Rev. 3.0 CF cards will be capable of up to 66MB/sec. SxS is capable of more at burst rates, but sustained won't be much faster. Is that incorrect?

Joel

"Think of this business as a room with a huge table and a bunch of chairs around the table. There is a big pie on the table. Your mission is to take your place at the table, pick up your fork, and eat your pie. Do not look to the left and do not look to the right. Just eat your pie. There is plenty of pie for everyone."

starting | perfectionists

Dave Williams
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Feb 4, 2008, 10:48 PM

Post #12 of 68 (1801 views)
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Re: [Joel] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

We've decided to go the Z7 route but the only problem I see so far is no direct support of the m2t file format in FCP.
-
Dave Williams
Tirelessly making the world a smoother place for event videographers

Daniel
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Feb 4, 2008, 11:08 PM

Post #13 of 68 (1781 views)
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Re: [Joel] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

Probably right but I don't think anyone will be using the CF cards as primary capture and edit format. They are not nearly as robust as SxS cards. That is why they can't do over/under crank.

I don't know about the speed of CF cards, all I know is that SxS is ridiculously fast.

And of course, there are other differences between the two cameras that i did not mention. The 1/2 chips being a big difference IMO. The low light is crazy good on this cam. (granted the Z7 doesn't look like a slouch either)

IMO, if you don't need the interchangable lenses (which being a Letus user, I don't) with the price difference being so slight, the EX1 a no brainer for me for the SxS, 1/2 chips, and over/undercrank.

"Happiness is beating your good friend by one stroke with a birdie on the 18th hole" Me

Joel
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Feb 4, 2008, 11:57 PM

Post #14 of 68 (1766 views)
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Re: [Dave Williams] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Dave,

In Reply To

We've decided to go the Z7 route but the only problem I see so far is no direct support of the m2t file format in FCP.

I won't be using the CF for HD, just SD same-day's - at least not this season. I really expect Apple to come out with some kind of update that addresses this soon.

Joel

"Think of this business as a room with a huge table and a bunch of chairs around the table. There is a big pie on the table. Your mission is to take your place at the table, pick up your fork, and eat your pie. Do not look to the left and do not look to the right. Just eat your pie. There is plenty of pie for everyone."

starting | perfectionists

Joel
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Feb 5, 2008, 12:06 AM

Post #15 of 68 (1763 views)
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Re: [Daniel] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

IMO, if you don't need the interchangable lenses (which being a Letus user, I don't) with the price difference being so slight, the EX1 a no brainer for me for the SxS, 1/2 chips, and over/undercrank.

Its interesting to see how Sony has positioned these cameras. I see it differently. I don't care to deal with interchangeable lenses and need a tape backup to fit in with my workflow. For those reasons neither of these cameras is my perfect camera. I want the chips of the Z7U in a body with a fixed lens and the option to add the CF recorder, i.e. not have it included in the camera package. That is the camera that I think will get the most people to trade in their SD gear.

Joel

"Think of this business as a room with a huge table and a bunch of chairs around the table. There is a big pie on the table. Your mission is to take your place at the table, pick up your fork, and eat your pie. Do not look to the left and do not look to the right. Just eat your pie. There is plenty of pie for everyone."

starting | perfectionists

2ndMile
Enthusiast

Feb 5, 2008, 12:41 AM

Post #16 of 68 (1751 views)
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In Reply To

I completely agree!!!!

Brian Morris
2ndMile Blog

Dave Williams
Veteran

Feb 5, 2008, 12:46 AM

Post #17 of 68 (1749 views)
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Re: [Joel] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I won't be using the CF for HD, just SD same-day's - at least not this season. I really expect Apple to come out with some kind of update that addresses this soon.

Ahhh - good point - SD SDEs. I don't care what they say about you Joel, you are one smart cookie.
-
Dave Williams
Tirelessly making the world a smoother place for event videographers

Daniel
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Feb 5, 2008, 1:31 AM

Post #18 of 68 (1740 views)
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Re: [Joel] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

i hear ya.

"Happiness is beating your good friend by one stroke with a birdie on the 18th hole" Me

glimmer
Veteran

Feb 5, 2008, 1:57 AM

Post #19 of 68 (1733 views)
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Re: [Daniel] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

I don't know about the speed of CF cards, all I know is that SxS is ridiculously fast.

The current CF cards (133x) have sustained transfer speeds of 20 megs per second and the 266x cards can sustain up to 45Mb/sec.

The CF card that Sony markets is 306x which is about 66Mb/sec (available in March). By the latter part of the year, a 3Gb (gigabits, not bytes) cards are supposed to become available, which will yield transfer speeds of 375Mb/sec. By interface type, the current CF cards are PATA, the newer cards are SATA. SxS cards, in their current state, have a transfer speed of 800Mbps, which is an effective 100Mb/sec. Note, though, that the interface type, including UDMA will yield a different transfer rate; for instance, Delkin has a CF-Pro card that yields 305x, but only has a transfer rate of 45Mb/sec.

Please note the differences between migabits, migabytes, gigabits, and gigabytes. So, as of now, the SxS card is faster, but not by much based on the per-card, average transfer rates.

The true variation will actually come down to the computer/device reading the cards and the speed of the reader, as well as the system that is reading them and how the files on the card, the size of the files, and the number of files, are transferred.

It'll also be interesting to see if the Z7U will support the newer cards when the arrive. CF cards are now available in 32G sizes for $150-$250 on average and 64G cards are supposed to be available within the next 4-8 weeks.

(This post was edited by glimmer on Feb 5, 2008, 1:59 AM)

DGates
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Feb 5, 2008, 1:58 AM

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Re: [Daniel] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

"TOP 25 MOST HOTTEST, INFLUENTIAL VIDEO STUD WHO HAS EVER WALKED THE PLANET EARTH OR ANY OTHER PLANET IN THE GALAXY PAST PRESENT OR FUTURE!!!!"

Dude, there's a phlemboid on Tr�z�nia 7 in the Triangulum Galaxy that blows you away, especially with SDE's (and their days are shorter). So don't get too cocky.

Daniel
Veteran

Feb 5, 2008, 2:00 AM

Post #21 of 68 (1726 views)
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Re: [glimmer] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

thanks for the info

"Happiness is beating your good friend by one stroke with a birdie on the 18th hole" Me

Daniel
Veteran

Feb 5, 2008, 2:00 AM

Post #22 of 68 (1725 views)
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Re: [DGates] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

"Happiness is beating your good friend by one stroke with a birdie on the 18th hole" Me

Roscoe_Video
User

Feb 5, 2008, 3:41 AM

Post #23 of 68 (1692 views)
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Re: [Dave Williams] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

What were the deciding features/benefits that swayed you to the Z7?

LKvideo
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Feb 5, 2008, 9:30 AM

Post #24 of 68 (1667 views)
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Re: [Daniel] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Daniel,

I tried out the Sony EX1 on Saturday and boy what an impresive camera. I used my Levelcam to hand hold it and it was a charm to shoot with. I had a Debutante Ball in Philly last Saturday, even though it was n't my main camera I used, (Used the Canon A1) I got some Awesome shots with it and noticed it's great in low light.

Only drawback I noticed was that I did not like that the Sony EX1 software Sucks Big Time. I had to find a Sony UK site in order to get the Updated software on my computer to load up the HQ clips and convert them to the proper MXF format for my Vegas editing software to read it. The Vortex DVD is excellent. If I knew earlier you had it for sale I would of bought it from you. Anyway do you use the EX1 for your same day edits?

Thanks, and its funny that you never know where you'll meet people and out of all places Walgreens Wink

Lou K
SI, NYC

Dave Williams
Veteran

Feb 5, 2008, 9:38 AM

Post #25 of 68 (1664 views)
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Re: [Roscoe_Video] Any EX1 owners [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

What were the deciding features/benefits that swayed you to the Z7?

Glowing low-light results similar to the EX1, LANC, tape backup, cheaper media, and great deal on the cam through glimmer's co-op. It was a tough choice, but with our current workflow, tape on the shelf > off-loading cards.
-
Dave Williams
Tirelessly making the world a smoother place for event videographers

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