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Home: Video University Forums: Wedding & Event Videography:
EX1 / Z7U / S270U Review

 

 


Adam Mancini
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Mar 26, 2008, 10:17 PM

Post #1 of 15 (1051 views)
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EX1 / Z7U / S270U Review Can't Post

A huge thanks to Dennis from Armatos www.armatosvideo.com He brought the EX1, Z7U, and S270U to both the tristate PVA and the RCPVA meetings over the last two days. My thoughts:

PMW-EX1:
The EX1 had the best picture and best low light of the three. It has ½ inch chips. It records to XD cards, 16gig is $800. While the picture is great it creates a serious workflow issue if your core business is weddings.


HVRZ7U
1/3 inch chips (same as 270) Great low light, great picture. Records to mini dv tape, and to Compact Flash (much cheaper than XD cards). It has 1 Compact flash drive so you can’t do a seamless record, but a 16 gig card will record 74 minutes which is longer than the tape. Camera gives you the best of both worlds, solid state media and tape for archive.


HVRS270U
Same Chips as the Z7U. Same great picture quality etc. Records to a full-size dvcam tape, mini dv, or Compact Flash. Records 4 channels of audio. This is cool because I can run 3 wireless mics, and a shot gun, and I don’t have to sync it up in post. Full viewfinder with a cool pop out LCD.


My thoughts:
If you do a lot of corporate work, broadcast work, commercials etc the EX1 is for you. It’s true HD and it has a bunch of different recording options. You will need a bunch of cards, but you’ll get a great image.
If you do mainly weddings and events you want the z7u, or 270. You get the best of all worlds. You record to tape and card at the same time. You can record any combination of SD and HD you want, so you can record hd to tape and sd to the card etc. The EX1 is slightly better then the Z7 in low light, but the Z7 is perfectly fine. We shot it in a dark room with the lights out and had a solid picture. It was like shooting a pd170 in terms of low light.
While the EX1 has a better picture, it isn’t that much better. It’s not like comparing a pd170 to a dsr 390 (in which case there is a drastic difference) Both have great HD chips and the image is beautiful.


A few notes of caution. The Z7U, and EX1 are heavier than a pd170 or Z1. It has a real lens. I can’t imagine shooting handheld without a rig for more than a few minutes. All three cameras have the rolling shutter, as others have said, it’s an issue. We saw a members video on the EX1, and while you can see the rolling shutter, imo it was not as bad as people have been saying. Basically it looks a little more drastic because when you freeze the frame, the flash starts half way down the screen and it’s a sharp line, rather than the whole frame being brighter.

Anyway those are my thoughts, I was impressed with the low light, and these cameras are the best HD cameras on the market today. I would guestimate these cameras are 2 stops brighter than the JVC 200, Z1 and cannon.

That’s my 2 cents…..

-Adam


Daniel
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 1:26 AM

Post #2 of 15 (1023 views)
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Re: [Adam Mancini] EX1 / Z7U / S270U Review [In reply to] Can't Post

The EX1 had the best picture and best low light of the three. It has ½ inch chips. It records to XD cards, 16gig is $800. While the picture is great it creates a serious workflow issue if your core business is weddings.

Quote

i would hardly characterize it as a "serious workflow issue". Different? Most definitely, but not an issue at all.

After 7 weddings shooting them with my last 3 being with only EX1s I am estatic about the possibilities of these cameras.

BTW- I shoot handheld all day except a couple minutes on a glidecam.


brucecleveland
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Mar 27, 2008, 7:11 AM

Post #3 of 15 (992 views)
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Re: [Daniel] EX1 / Z7U / S270U Review [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The EX1 had the best picture and best low light of the three. It has ½ inch chips. It records to XD cards, 16gig is $800. While the picture is great it creates a serious workflow issue if your core business is weddings.

Quote

BTW- I shoot handheld all day except a couple minutes on a glidecam.


You are much stronger than I my friend.

Bruce
"Always over my head, but not quite deep enough to drown."


Adam Mancini
User

Mar 27, 2008, 11:06 AM

Post #4 of 15 (970 views)
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Re: [Daniel] EX1 / Z7U / S270U Review [In reply to] Can't Post

I’m not try to knock your purchase. To properly use that camera means that you need to buy numerous cards, and a lot of hard rive space. While the EX is roughly the same price as the Z7 once you add the cards and drives it becomes a bit more expensive. Also, I do a lot of weddings, If your doing 50+ weddings a year, ad double days it is a bit more difficult. It still is a great camera, the picture is amazing, and it has a great lens. All I’m saying is that I can do the exact same thing, plus get tape backup with the Z7. From a business standpoint, if I’m not doing broadcast work with it, I just don’t think it’s worth the extra money. I wish you the best of luck with it, I’m sure it works well in your business model to meet your needs.


Daniel
Veteran

Mar 27, 2008, 9:00 PM

Post #5 of 15 (912 views)
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Re: [Adam Mancini] EX1 / Z7U / S270U Review [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not saying you were trying to knock my purchase. I just wanted to make sure you qualified your statement about it being a "serious workflow issue".

Maybe for someone like you and your biz model it is an issue.


But for me, going towards, SDE onlys, tape is a serious workflow issue. Tongue


Adam Mancini
User

Mar 27, 2008, 11:10 PM

Post #6 of 15 (889 views)
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Re: [Daniel] EX1 / Z7U / S270U Review [In reply to] Can't Post

Good point, I like the Z7U because I get a tapeless system as well, I get the best of both worlds. I'd rather pay $800 for all my cards then for 1 card. The EX1 has a much better lens, and it does feel a little better in my hands. I'm part of the SDE group to, were doing 150 a year, I just think that the average videographer who does mostly weddings might get better bang for there buck on the Z7U.

I shoot with 2 cameras, so I would need 2 EX1's with a minimum of 4 cards each to do a job. Personally I would need more because I do allot of double days etc, and I'd want a backup or two. Realistically I’d buy 10 cards, a backup for each camera. The EX1 also uses a new battery system, so I would need 3 batteries for each camera, with the Z7 I can use my existing batteries.

EX1 =$6,450 X 2 =$12,900
16 Gig card = $750 X 10=$7500
BPU60 $250 X6 =$1500
Total = $21,900

Z7U =5,600 X 2 = $11,000
16gig CF =$200 X10 = $2,000
No new batteries
Total=$13,000

From my stand point the Z7U is more bang for my buck. If I were only buying 1, I could divide these numbers in half. The EX1 came out first and has gotten a lot of buzz. It has overshadowed the Z7U. For anyone who is trying to make an informed decision, I can only present my option of what I saw from 2 days of comparison. The EX1 provides a better picture, it’s a better build, with a better lens. The XD cards are better then the CF cards. In my opinion, the extra visual punch and lens etc. just don’t justify the extra expense. There would be a $9,000 difference, I could have 3 Z7’s or 2 EX1’s. The Z7 has a great picture, and I believe any client will be thrilled with the quality of the video.

If I were producing commercial’s, doing VNR’s, or a lot of corporate work, I might justify the expense. For a business that handles mostly events, and SDE’s, I’d look at the numbers and make a business decision


(This post was edited by Adam Mancini on Mar 28, 2008, 11:55 PM)


Daniel
Veteran

Mar 28, 2008, 12:09 AM

Post #7 of 15 (876 views)
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Re: [Adam Mancini] EX1 / Z7U / S270U Review [In reply to] Can't Post

Now price that out over 5 years but now include tape expenses. Much different picture my friend. Much different. You will end up paying a lot more than i will to run your Z7s over that same time span.

People fail to think about that all of the time and it never ceases to amaze me. I guess cuz tape is so cheap but multiply it over a year and then two years and 5 years and it is VERY costly. More costly than SxS cards in that same period. Esp with the volume you guys do..you will spend a small fortune on tape in 5 years.




i know you guys do SDEs but i was talking about SDE only packages which is what I am going towards. Having a tape back-up is meaningless if i am not going to edit anything after the day is over.


Adam Mancini
User

Mar 28, 2008, 1:05 AM

Post #8 of 15 (863 views)
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Re: [Daniel] EX1 / Z7U / S270U Review [In reply to] Can't Post

I think your in the minority, but I understand your point. Do you plan to just dump the footage? What if they decide they want you to cut something from the raw footage after 3 months? Do you plan to archive at all? We reuse camera tapes after a year. If I had the EX1, I would still dump the footage off to a hard drive or tape, thus it doesn't affect my cot per job, nor would it other videographers. We can go back and forth, it sounds like it makes alot of sense for your business. Do you think the average videographer with a 4-6 month backlog might want tape? Look all I was trying to say is, hey here's my point for the masses, Here’s the benefits of each etc...


Daniel
Veteran

Mar 28, 2008, 1:08 AM

Post #9 of 15 (853 views)
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Re: [Adam Mancini] EX1 / Z7U / S270U Review [In reply to] Can't Post

Gotcha man..and i was doing the same. Letting you know why it works for me. Smile


Joel
Veteran


Mar 29, 2008, 10:57 AM

Post #10 of 15 (760 views)
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In Reply To
Gotcha man..and i was doing the same. Letting you know why it works for me. Smile


If you absolutely had to could you transcode on the fly to HDV tape with the EX1 through firewire? Sorta like a firewire-to-firewire sd dub? HDV cam records HDV will the EX1 outputs whatever...

Joel


"Think of this business as a room with a huge table and a bunch of chairs around the table. There is a big pie on the table. Your mission is to take your place at the table, pick up your fork, and eat your pie. Do not look to the left and do not look to the right. Just eat your pie. There is plenty of pie for everyone."


starting | perfectionists







Daniel
Veteran

Mar 29, 2008, 11:15 AM

Post #11 of 15 (752 views)
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Re: [Joel] EX1 / Z7U / S270U Review [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah..i am pretty sure you can. i think you would lose the timecode though..woudnt you?


Joel
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Mar 29, 2008, 11:18 AM

Post #12 of 15 (750 views)
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In Reply To
Yeah..i am pretty sure you can. i think you would lose the timecode though..woudnt you?


Not sure. Not sure if firewire sd dubs maintain it. Would be a lot of wear-and-tear on the EX1.

Joel


"Think of this business as a room with a huge table and a bunch of chairs around the table. There is a big pie on the table. Your mission is to take your place at the table, pick up your fork, and eat your pie. Do not look to the left and do not look to the right. Just eat your pie. There is plenty of pie for everyone."


starting | perfectionists







Daniel
Veteran

Mar 29, 2008, 11:32 AM

Post #13 of 15 (744 views)
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Re: [Joel] EX1 / Z7U / S270U Review [In reply to] Can't Post

i suppose if its just for a last resort back-up timecode wouldnt be that much of an issue.

missed you in OC..didnt i?

Mad


Joel
Veteran


Mar 29, 2008, 12:11 PM

Post #14 of 15 (736 views)
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Re: [Daniel] EX1 / Z7U / S270U Review [In reply to] Can't Post

Two days before I flew out there my back went out. Never happened before. Nasty. Had to get a shot of Torodal just so I could sit on the plane. Did a bunch of nothing at my parents place. Pathetic. Then got stuck in Minneapolis during a connecting flight because of the snow storm and ended up renting a car to drive home because Milwaukee's airport was snowed in. Ugh.



In Reply To
i suppose if its just for a last resort back-up timecode wouldnt be that much of an issue.

missed you in OC..didnt i?

Mad


Joel


"Think of this business as a room with a huge table and a bunch of chairs around the table. There is a big pie on the table. Your mission is to take your place at the table, pick up your fork, and eat your pie. Do not look to the left and do not look to the right. Just eat your pie. There is plenty of pie for everyone."


starting | perfectionists







Daniel
Veteran

Mar 29, 2008, 12:20 PM

Post #15 of 15 (735 views)
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Re: [Joel] EX1 / Z7U / S270U Review [In reply to] Can't Post

Sucks man! Sorry to hear that. Well..i know you will be back again so we'll shoot for next time.

I want a pic with The Great Mulleted One! Cool